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I don't like that the solution here is "A glossary is easily abusable, so just buy whatever and if a sex pest profits, they got your money, so just be careful next time or not, how can you really tell, repeat ad nauseum." For instance, it is a pain in the rear end to constantly tell people not to buy from PlayAsia because of their extremely open pro-GG stance, especially as their previous tweets about it slowly fade into the background of their constantly updating accounts. Eventually, it's going to leave the public consciousness, leaving a couple of extremely online olds yelling into the ether, until they get tired and no one cares anymore. Like, does anyone remember the controversies surrounding Ion Fury and its devs? If not, they probably banked on that. I can't think of a better solution, but surely there's an option that's not "who knows *shrug*".
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Nov 4, 2021 19:25
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pentyne posted:Yeah there's a constant stream of the people doing the milkshake ducking then later getting milkshake ducked for their own sins. It's not that intense. For publishers or developers I've never heard of it's easy to take a couple minutes googling variations of the company names, game name, "abuse", "controversy" and "allegations" then skimming what comes up. It's not perfect but makes me feel a tiny better about buying media and I don't think it's that bad a thing. It makes sense that some kind of database for it would be a minefield for its staff. It's not worth it.
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Nov 4, 2021 20:44
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pentyne posted:If you are so worried about incidentally supporting an abuser or rapist, then maybe work on that mentality other then stressing every single purchase you make. This is kind of a dumb thing to say in a thread about how the games industry is full of rapists.
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Nov 4, 2021 20:52
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Takoluka posted:I don't like that the solution here is "A glossary is easily abusable, so just buy whatever and if a sex pest profits, they got your money, so just be careful next time or not, how can you really tell, repeat ad nauseum." No I mean if you're having anxiety and stressing over possibly supporting an abuser via capital consumption deal with that, and do what you can to avoid it but don't beat yourself up if you make a mistake.
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Nov 4, 2021 20:53
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pentyne posted:No I mean if you're having anxiety and stressing over possibly supporting an abuser via capital consumption deal with that, and do what you can to avoid it but don't beat yourself up if you make a mistake. That's fair. I would just hope that there's a decent way of chronicling and archiving this stuff before it fades into obscurity and people are able to Nick Robinson their way in all over again.
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Nov 4, 2021 20:59
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Takoluka posted:That's fair. I would just hope that there's a decent way of chronicling and archiving this stuff before it fades into obscurity and people are able to Nick Robinson their way in all over again. I feel like those cases are from the fact there are enough people willing to support him in spite of his crimes, not because of ignorance of. His audience might also just be completely fine with a "hey, he apologized, get over it" and just not care regardless.
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Nov 4, 2021 21:04
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The onus shouldn't be on us, the consuming public, to hold shitheads accountable. The whole point of movements like #MeToo is to drag this poo poo out into the light and hopefully get someone, anyone, everyone to change the culture of what is acceptable. It shouldn't take a whisper movement of extremely online nerds feeling bad about a game they were excited about. People should never feel trapped with an abuser because their career is at stake in the first place. So yeah all we need to do is upend and redesign civilization from the ground up. Easy. :/
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Nov 4, 2021 21:07
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If it is a problem that manifests across society and especially in places where there are power structures that allow and encourage people to cover up their wrongdoings in the name of their own, or company enrichment, then it becomes very difficult to imagine how you could build a single "authoritative" source to point people to, because that source would necessarily then have the power to decide what is and isn't "legitimate" and small concentrations of people having that ability is literally the structure that produces so much of the poo poo in the first place. It sucks, but I don't see how you can have a process for change that doesn't ultimately hinge on a fundamentally decentralized source of information. If people need a central authority to be convinced of the wrongs of authority figures in companies then ultimately they aren't getting the point. If people you know aren't receptive to that then I think fundamentally they just aren't really interested in entertaining the possibility, or changing their purchasing habits if they are. And yeah that does basically necessitate changing society so that people do give a poo poo, I think part of that process does have to be trying to keep people aware of it, trying to keep people emotively engaged with it, because I can't think of any other avenue that is available.
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Nov 4, 2021 22:42
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Takoluka posted:Like, does anyone remember the controversies surrounding Ion Fury and its devs? If not, they probably banked on that. Were they the ones that temporarily reduced the price of their game by the same percentage as trans people who died in suicide? Or were they just generally transphobic? it's getting hard to keep track of individual events, especially with edgelords doubling down.
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Nov 5, 2021 00:14
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Ion Fury I think was some form of transphobia, they made the duke nukem shooter type thing.
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Nov 5, 2021 00:20
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Hel posted:Were they the ones that temporarily reduced the price of their game by the same percentage as trans people who died in suicide? Or were they just generally transphobic? it's getting hard to keep track of individual events, especially with edgelords doubling down. That was the developer of an indie RPG named Heartbeat. And yeah they're trash and that game was quickly removed from my wishlist
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Nov 5, 2021 00:27
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OwlFancier posted:Ion Fury I think was some form of transphobia, they made the duke nukem shooter type thing. ion fury had a homophobic joke in it, people complained, the devs said they would remove it but then backtracked, kept it in and doubled down shame cause a new game on the build engine was such a cool idea
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Nov 5, 2021 00:51
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Dr Pepper posted:That was the developer of an indie RPG named Heartbeat. And yeah they're trash and that game was quickly removed from my wishlist Yeah and if there was any doubt the number was an accident, the dev went like, full loud, boisterous TERF. It was really sad because a lot of trans people really loved that game.
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Nov 5, 2021 02:15
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Tiny Myers posted:Yeah and if there was any doubt the number was an accident, the dev went like, full loud, boisterous TERF. It was really sad because a lot of trans people really loved that game. I looked into it, it wasn't even the dev it was her girlfriend. Allegedly there was a secret discord with the dev mocking trans fans or something as well.
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Nov 5, 2021 02:23
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:ion fury had a homophobic joke in it, people complained, the devs said they would remove it but then backtracked, kept it in and doubled down there was a bunch of hidden messages of transphobia and a bunch of poo poo on the devs' discord, none of which they ever apologized for honestly "ogay" on a random bottle in a mall level is exactly the kind of silly pun i expect from a build engine game (they are historically full of silly parody "realistic" items and advertisments), and if it wasn't for everything else the devs said it wouldn't have even been an issue
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Nov 5, 2021 02:26
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pentyne posted:I looked into it, it wasn't even the dev it was her girlfriend. Allegedly there was a secret discord with the dev mocking trans fans or something as well. Well the thing is that she doubled down defending what her girlfriend said. Anyway there was also some other stuff about people who worked on the game but left before release not getting paid, and overall the picture that came out of it was that she was a controlling rear end in a top hat who couldn't ever allow herself to be wrong. The music composer who seemed cool just sort of distanced themself from the whole thing after it all came out. Clarste fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Nov 5, 2021 |
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Nov 5, 2021 04:24
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Arivia posted:honestly "ogay" on a random bottle in a mall level is exactly the kind of silly pun i expect from a build engine game (they are historically full of silly parody "realistic" items and advertisments), and if it wasn't for everything else the devs said it wouldn't have even been an issue This. They removed the f slur one of their map makers had snuck into a map (only visible in the editor) and say they were going to remove the ogay joke and didn't. It was the reasoning they gave for changing their minds that was gross because they went full "not bowing down to the dangerous SJW fringe" reactionary over it.
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Nov 5, 2021 04:29
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Clarste posted:Well the thing is that she doubled down defending what her girlfriend said.
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Nov 5, 2021 04:36
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The 7th Guest posted:also they used the trans suicide statistic as the basis for a discount for their game in a Steam sale.. the both of them are rotten
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Nov 5, 2021 04:44
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What I did is just to put up every name mentioned in here, associated games, what they did and relevant tweets/links relating to the allegations in a google doc, mostly to remind myself of some of the names of the indie devs that I'm likely to forget (as opposed to like, the whole of Ubisoft or Blizzard as a lovely institution). Like, I remember the thing with Heartbeat and Brigador, but I'll 100% forget the name of the devs if they ever make another game. A lot of this stuff will definitely be forgotten, if it was ever known in the first place. It takes some work and I'm sure something slipped through the cracks, but it's useful as a reference tool to remind someone that "Hey this dev is (allegedly) a rapist/white supremacist/terf" when someone is asking for recs in, e.g., the Steam thread, and then letting them determine the ethical limits of their consumption, at the risk of starting a derail when someone kramers in and defends the alleged problematic dev. But I doubt that any such public repository of this information could exist since A) the Internet is full of shitheads who are defined by the entertainment they consume and B) coming to a shared moral consensus seems like an exercise in futility. Like sure we can all agree that rapists are bad, but what about The Messenger devs who are fans of Jordan Peterson and put quotes/references to him in the game? Like I know which side of that line I stand on, but I'm sure people would contest whether that deserves mention. So if you want to make the effort to be a more ethical consumer of videogames, then more power to you, but it does need that personalization that makes it difficult to be a common or shared resource unless you really trusted the people who are the stewards of that resource.
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Nov 5, 2021 06:56
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The 7th Guest posted:also they used the trans suicide statistic as the basis for a discount for their game in a Steam sale.. the both of them are rotten It's crazy, because Shepple, the lead dev, was a famous Touhou fandom artist, and Touhou is pretty inclusive at its core. I saw a lot of trans people in the community come out through it. One day, she starts scrubbing her accounts and then up and vanishes, supposedly because of weirdo dudes on the internet causing her problems, only to show back up years later, completely detached and in super TERF mode with her extremely bigoted partner. Maybe she was always secretly transphobic or something, but Nikotine is very much a poison, and they both need to smoke bomb off the internet.
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Nov 5, 2021 07:08
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Like, one of her favorite Touhou characters to draw was someone implied to be trans.
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Nov 5, 2021 07:13
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Clarste posted:Like, one of her favorite Touhou characters to draw was someone implied to be trans. Miko-Exclusionary Radical Feminist
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Nov 5, 2021 07:23
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Terfs are such loving weirdos, like they're absolutely obsessed with trans people
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Nov 5, 2021 08:24
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:ion fury had a homophobic joke in it, people complained, the devs said they would remove it but then backtracked, kept it in and doubled down One of the devs was extremely transphobic on Discord too, which is how the thing blew up IIRC.
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Nov 5, 2021 08:53
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Ash Crimson posted:Terfs are such loving weirdos, like they're absolutely obsessed with trans people It really, really (and I know Godwin's law) reminds me of the anti-Semitism in organs of cultural analysis in the Nazi regime... Gibbering hatred that would sound too extreme from David Lynch's version of Baron Harkonnen.
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Nov 5, 2021 09:02
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Samovar posted:It really, really (and I know Godwin's law) reminds me of the anti-Semitism in organs of cultural analysis in the Nazi regime... Gibbering hatred that would sound too extreme from David Lynch's version of Baron Harkonnen. You're in luck, a lot of TERFs also source antisemites and tend to be antisemites, so the comparison is apropos.
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Nov 5, 2021 09:07
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GrandpaPants posted:But I doubt that any such public repository of this information could exist since A) the Internet is full of shitheads who are defined by the entertainment they consume and B) coming to a shared moral consensus seems like an exercise in futility. Like sure we can all agree that rapists are bad, but what about The Messenger devs who are fans of Jordan Peterson and put quotes/references to him in the game? Like I know which side of that line I stand on, but I'm sure people would contest whether that deserves mention. So if you want to make the effort to be a more ethical consumer of videogames, then more power to you, but it does need that personalization that makes it difficult to be a common or shared resource unless you really trusted the people who are the stewards of that resource. okay so you dont have the imagination to tackle systemic issues, maybe YOU should be the one focusing on your own hedonism and you can leave the rest of the thread to it
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Nov 5, 2021 11:49
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Ash Crimson posted:Terfs are such loving weirdos, like they're absolutely obsessed with trans people like its one thing to think trans people are gross or w/e and then just go on with your life outside of that, that is bad but isnt exactly an uncommon thing, its another to devote your entire life to raging about it. Endorph fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Nov 5, 2021 |
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Nov 5, 2021 12:13
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Jokerpilled Drudge posted:okay so you dont have the imagination to tackle systemic issues, maybe YOU should be the one focusing on your own hedonism and you can leave the rest of the thread to it If your idea of succesfully tackling systemic issues is to not play certain video games I would not be going around accusing anyone else of lacking imagination
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Nov 6, 2021 00:28
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some plague rats posted:If your idea of succesfully tackling systemic issues is to not play certain video games I would not be going around accusing anyone else of lacking imagination No that's not my idea of tackling systemic issues. I was suggesting that just because someone can't imagine a source of journalism that is helpful in identifying lovely labor practices doesn't mean it can't exist
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Nov 6, 2021 13:21
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Samovar posted:It really, really (and I know Godwin's law) reminds me of the anti-Semitism in organs of cultural analysis in the Nazi regime... Gibbering hatred that would sound too extreme from David Lynch's version of Baron Harkonnen. https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/41...cialist-project That comparison is not without its problems, but I think it really helps in making sense of the absolute hatred beyond all other considerations that seems to be a frequent characteristic of ideological transphobia.
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Nov 6, 2021 22:27
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Godwin repealed his law years ago. Is it really that difficult to just not be a bigot or misogynist? I know the answer but still.
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Nov 6, 2021 22:34
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Ash Crimson posted:Terfs are such loving weirdos, like they're absolutely obsessed with trans people every time i see a terf spouting some poo poo my mind reads it in the voice of Frollo from Hunchback. just that incredible religious fervor that The Other is wicked and bad and they have magic genital preference destroying powers. that "look what you're making me do" energy is just oozing out.
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Nov 6, 2021 22:40
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Carpator Diei posted:There's a very good article on that similarity: Thanks for this. It was a tad academically verbose, but good.
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Nov 11, 2021 15:11
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the heartbeat dev compared the penis to the Eiffel Tower and that half-remembered analogy has since been rolling around my head like a stray marble I always got a weird vibe from that game but not to that extent
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Nov 11, 2021 15:25
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Any penis in particular or just the general ur-penis?
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Nov 11, 2021 16:28
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the platonic penis. something about how calling yourself French doesn’t mean you’re from France and your dick is not the Eiffel Tower? je ne sais pas
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Nov 11, 2021 16:30
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my penis is the leaning tower of pizza
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Nov 11, 2021 16:34
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Terfs are very ill, they're very sick
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Nov 11, 2021 17:10
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