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WoT has the best built in excuse any show adaptation can have. It’s just a different turn of the wheel. See? Nothing matters and it’s perfect cause I get to see Lanfear in cool clothes!
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Mar 26, 2024 21:52
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I've never liked that explanation because it implies that more or less the same story gets retold every time, which is super boring. I prefer it if each full cycle of the wheel looks basically nothing like the previous one.
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Mar 26, 2024 21:59
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Colonel Cool posted:I've never liked that explanation because it implies that more or less the same story gets retold every time, which is super boring. Yeah I'd always gotten the impression that that was supposed to be the case; some stuff Jordan said in interviews made it seem like each iteration of an Age would look very different while still having similar beats (each 3A having a noble kingdom collapsing due to betrayal in the midst of an apocalyptic war, a continent-sized empire collapsing into civil war, and ultimately a Last Battle but not necessarily "Manetheren", "Artur Hawkwing", or "Rand al'Thor of the Two Rivers"). I've wondered a bit if the fanon assumption that there's supposed to be a second Breaking or equivalent to reset the map back to the continents we know of for the 1A is actually true or if in fact the 2A/3A Breaking is the only one of its kind and it just makes an entirely different world map each Turning.
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Mar 26, 2024 22:07
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Invalid Validation posted:Lanfear in cool clothes! I want every episode of season 3 to up her outfits. Loved those outfits in season 2.
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Mar 26, 2024 23:52
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CainFortea posted:There are many more examples of him being consumed with power that have nothing to do with Callandor. In fact the biggest example of this theme is the Choden Kal. And the first time he uses Choden Kal, Callandor is being used by an underling as a side quest. Of course, in a TV show where none of the rules matter, none of that matters either, but I will absolutely think it's silly if they don't use the cool glowy magic sword. Also minor sidenote, the first time Rand uses the Choedan Kal, at the end of TSR, Callandor is stuck in the floor of the Stone of Tear.
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Mar 27, 2024 01:42
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bio347 posted:I don't know if the Choedan Kal as used in the books really shows Rand being "consumed with power". It's probably more the opposite, actually? Rand actively avoids using it for five books out of fear of the power that it offers, and wasn't even intending on using them for the Cleansing until he learned about Callandor's flaws. Even in TGS after he goes dark, he carries the access key around with him to use instead of the True Power because the TP is just THAT seductive. It just... doesn't ring the same way, particularly because without Callandor's flaws the CK just does what Rand wants it to do and doesn't make him crazy. You mean, in TGH when he almost falls off the side of an excavation
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Mar 27, 2024 01:52
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Rand is a fuckin toddler looking for new and inventive ways to maim and/or kill himself constantly.
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Mar 27, 2024 02:03
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I thought it was clarified that the keys were absolutely needed to actually use them. Rand just got a cop like fentinal contact high in TGH.
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Mar 27, 2024 02:12
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silvergoose posted:You mean, in TGH when he almost falls off the side of an excavation
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Mar 27, 2024 02:16
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pik_d posted:Rand is a fuckin toddler looking for new and inventive ways to maim and/or kill himself and/or anyone in his path constantly.
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Mar 27, 2024 02:42
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Dude is Mr. Magoo with access to reality-warping nuclear bombs
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Mar 27, 2024 03:48
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bio347 posted:I don't know if the Choedan Kal as used in the books really shows Rand being "consumed with power". It's probably more the opposite, actually? I don't know how you can read the whole darth rand bit when he refuses to use Callandor and balefires a palace as the opposite of being consumed with power.
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Mar 27, 2024 05:18
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calandryll posted:I want every episode of season 3 to up her outfits. Loved those outfits in season 2. I will gleefully sacrifice Callandor on the altar of Lanfear having even more elaborate Ancient Future Past power suits with matching eyeshadow. Let her blow up the ignorant savages while she rescues the reincarnation of the man who dumped her so hard that she drilled a hole to Satan in order to get him to notice her again, and let her have fun doing it. She's been in prison for three thousand years and deserves a little treat.
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Mar 27, 2024 15:44
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Mad Hamish posted:I will gleefully sacrifice Callandor on the altar of Lanfear having even more elaborate Ancient Future Past power suits with matching eyeshadow. Let her blow up the ignorant savages while she rescues the reincarnation of the man who dumped her so hard that she drilled a hole to Satan in order to get him to notice her again, and let her have fun doing it. She's been in prison for three thousand years and deserves a little treat.  I'm on board with dropping Callandor, there are plenty of other ways to communicate Rand's various struggles with power and temptation. The most interesting part of Callandor to me was the fact that it was unshielded and therefore required a male channeler to be linked with women to use it safely. Which is also a thing that can be communicated in different ways through different plot points, depending on what the show runners decide to keep.
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Mar 27, 2024 16:31
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There is zero reason you need to drop Callandor even if we aren’t doing Tear so I’m not sure why so many people are happy to drop it. Just have him get it somewhere else.
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Mar 27, 2024 16:35
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fans agree: this fantasy TV show needs fewer cool swords. "too much cool magic," viewers say.
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Mar 27, 2024 16:50
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Flowing Thot posted:There is zero reason you need to drop Callandor even if we aren’t doing Tear so I’m not sure why so many people are happy to drop it. Just have him get it somewhere else. Because the most interesting part of Callandor is the fact that in the books it's so ignored for much of it. That's the bit. RJ: "BEHOLD! A glowing magical sword that's on the book cover!" Next Book: Rand shoves the sword back where he pulled it out and it's barely used for the next 8 books If the show actually drops Callandor, which i'm not sure they will, it's almost a next level of the same bit.
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Mar 27, 2024 16:56
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Actually the best part of Callandor is the prophecy setting Narishma up as this cool special dude except nope he's just a delivery guy
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Mar 27, 2024 17:08
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Rarity posted:Actually the best part of Callandor is the prophecy setting Narishma up as this cool special dude except nope he's just a delivery guy
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Mar 27, 2024 17:17
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The best part of Callandor is how it's the only sa'angreal ever made that uses both the One Power and the True Power and it is therefore instrumental to resealing the Dark One, the central antagonist of the story. But yes, let's get rid of it. Instead of using metaphysics and tricking Ishmael, maybe Rand can just give a speech about the power of friendship while the other ta'veren and Elayne stand around in cool poses.
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Mar 27, 2024 17:28
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Ravenson posted:Instead of using metaphysics and tricking
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Mar 27, 2024 17:46
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I mean I guess at some point you have to start asking questions like, is WoT about things like Callandor? Is it about "a specific array of props and magic items and spells and character catchphrases"? Or is it about more of a narrative arc where the trinkets and the minibosses and the cities and even the characters don't really matter as much as the central elevator-pitch, "men do magic like this, women do magic like this, here's what that looks like in practice"
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Mar 27, 2024 17:48
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Data Graham posted:I mean I guess at some point you have to start asking questions like, is WoT about things like Callandor? Is it about "a specific array of props and magic items and spells and character catchphrases"? Or is it about more of a narrative arc where the trinkets and the minibosses and the cities and even the characters don't really matter as much as the central elevator-pitch, "men do magic like this, women do magic like this, here's what that looks like in practice" And so we're back to "It's completely unreasonable for a book's adaptation to try and hew closely to the books, it's completely fine to change anything and everything. Just be grateful it's still Rand and Egwene vs Ishamael and Lanfear instead of Billy Bob and Priscilla vs Jesus and Cindy, because even that would be okay as long as one part of the central premise (and not even the whole thing!) is being kept".
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Mar 27, 2024 18:06
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It is a TV show and you don't have to watch it.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:12
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Mad Hamish posted:It is a TV show and you don't have to watch it. It's a forum about complaining about poo poo you don't like and I paid money to do that.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:15
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It makes no sense from a tv writing perspective to introduce a cool new sword that the audience wont get to see used for several years. It'd probably add more tension if you give Rand callandor when hes in the middle of his PTSD arc anyway
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Mar 27, 2024 18:19
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Mad Hamish posted:It is a TV show and you don't have to watch it. Yea, but what's the point in life if you can't fundamentally misunderstand what words mean in order to act superior to anyone who likes things?
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Mar 27, 2024 18:22
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Future Me Hates Me posted:It makes no sense from a tv writing perspective to introduce a cool new sword that the audience wont get to see used for several years. For the record, the show doing this would get so complaint from me unless the specifics of how they introduced Callandor later on were particularly stupid. CainFortea posted:Yea, but what's the point in life if you can't fundamentally misunderstand what words mean in order to act superior to anyone who likes things? I mean at no point in this thread have I attacked anyone who liked the show (and note that quite a few people have dunked on me for voicing my opinion) except those who specifically trot out the "it's an adaptation and therefore any change is fair game" card. Last dude I quoted literally said the mini bosses (the Forsaken) and characters (our ta'veren) are unimportant compared to the premise.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:32
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This will seem silly when it shows up in Season 6, just wait seven years.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:34
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Mad Hamish posted:It is a TV show and you don't have to watch it. this is a loving book thread
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Mar 27, 2024 18:35
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:this is a loving book thread It's a book thread that people who hate the show can't stop talking about the tv show in.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:38
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CainFortea posted:It's a book thread that people who hate the show can't stop talking about the tv show in. This thread had been silent for a month until a show fan brought up show news. But hey, you're right. I'll talk about the books. I've been doing a reread and posting my thoughts on my Tumblr. I finished up TGH a bit ago and will be starting TDR soon. Is this an appropriate place to post those thoughts as well when I start up again?
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Mar 27, 2024 18:40
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Future Me Hates Me posted:It makes no sense from a tv writing perspective to introduce a cool new sword that the audience wont get to see used for several years. I'm not saying that the premise of Callandor not being used for multiple seasons is better than introducing it later, maybe introducing it later will work better. I don't know, we'll have to see what they do (if they use it at all). But I don't think it 'makes no sense' for the cool magic sword thing to be introduced, then there's a narrative surrounding a big battle and its aftermath to show why Rand locks it away (together with his whole effort to work out what the prophecies mean which is quite a fun part of the earl-mid books), and so on... then it's only briefly mentioned now and then or discussed tangentially as part of a character-centred plot about the crazy amount of power Rand could use if he wanted to... then it comes back back several seasons later when Rand's character starts to go off the rails. Call-backs like that happen in long-running shows and it can be very effective if done well I think.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:41
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Ravenson posted:This thread had been silent for a month until a show fan brought up show news. Yeah that sounds fun, please do it.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:43
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Data Graham posted:I mean I guess at some point you have to start asking questions like, is WoT about things like Callandor? Is it about "a specific array of props and magic items and spells and character catchphrases"? Or is it about more of a narrative arc where the trinkets and the minibosses and the cities and even the characters don't really matter as much as the central elevator-pitch, "men do magic like this, women do magic like this, here's what that looks like in practice" there are a lot of takes you could have on wheel of time and its adaptation but "really the characters and events don't matter so much, but they kept the important part: robert jordan's thoughts on gender" is i think a novel take on the show, congrats like i would say the bolded element is vastly, vastly de-emphasized in the show for many extremely obvious reasons
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Mar 27, 2024 18:46
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It makes no sense from a tv writing perspective to give Perrin a dead wife either since it makes no difference to the show but here we are. Should have just given Perrin Callandor since it would give at least one thing that could act better in each scene he’s in.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:48
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El Grillo posted:People love poo poo coming back from earlier seasons though. Old characters and stuff. It's what makes long shows feel tied together? Fair enough, I guess I just mean it makes more sense for a show that has time constraints. Callandor going into hibernation came off to me as a redsult of some of the sloppiness that came with Jordan extending the series past what he orginally intended.
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Mar 27, 2024 19:21
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The thing that gets me is that it’s very easy to show Rand as drawn to Callandor for the power it offers. Then you show him going bugfuck nuts during the Ilian campaign, and have him make the decision to purposely leave it behind until a moment of absolute necessity. Rand explains to someone onscreen that he can no longer trust himself not to reBreak the World with that sword in his possession. Bam. You’ve set up the sword’s extended absence, as well as its return at a moment of absolute necessity. There are ways to keep so many of these pieces of Wheel of Time—even the ones that (as with Callandor) needed a revision with the whole series in mind—and all it would take is a small amount of screentime to allow for the supporting dialogue. The showrunners aren’t prioritizing these things, and we aren’t privy to the master plan for when (or even if) these missing pieces will finally show up.
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Mar 27, 2024 19:52
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I'm just sortof expecting that the conclusion of season 3, or maybe the opener of 4, is gonna be Rand teleporting into the stone with his aiel army and grabbing Callandor. And then season 4 you go from there to Dumai's Wells.
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Mar 27, 2024 20:11
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I think that it would be appropriate for an adaptation into a visual museum to increase the emphasis that is placed on cool looking objects.
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Mar 27, 2024 21:09
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