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Ravenson posted:And so we're back to "It's completely unreasonable for a book's adaptation to try and hew closely to the books, it's completely fine to change anything and everything. Just be grateful it's still Rand and Egwene vs Ishamael and Lanfear instead of Billy Bob and Priscilla vs Jesus and Cindy, because even that would be okay as long as one part of the central premise (and not even the whole thing!) is being kept". C'mon man. No one ITT wants a completely faithful adaptation of the books more than me but it is clear that we are not getting that for budgetary and/or showrunner preference reasons. I would love it if they kept Callandor and maybe they will, but have Rand find it in Rhuidean or somewhere else. It is a useful plot device and having it show up somewhere in the story closer to the Last Battle (read: in the last 1-2 seasons) could help them bring a bunch of threads together. That said I'm not going to get my hopes up for them doing so, especially when there are multiple a'ngreal or s'angreal doodads in the series that could serve the same plot purpose, i.e. the Choedan Kal access keys or whatever.
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Mar 27, 2024 22:02
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The Choedan Kal being far too powerful to leave existing is such a nice moment for Rand so replacing Callandor at the last battle with them would be a poor change.
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Mar 27, 2024 22:18
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Mat Cauthon posted:C'mon man. No one ITT wants a completely faithful adaptation of the books more than me but it is clear that we are not getting that for budgetary and/or showrunner preference reasons. I would love it if they kept Callandor and maybe they will, but have Rand find it in Rhuidean or somewhere else. It is a useful plot device and having it show up somewhere in the story closer to the Last Battle (read: in the last 1-2 seasons) could help them bring a bunch of threads together. Since the show has already confirmed Rand will be going to Tear (at least IIRC - I believe Min mentions the Stone in her debut episode), he'll almost certainly recover it in whatever that season that is, as speculated upthread (and which I noted would be an acceptable choice for the adaptation in my eyes). I'm not actually criticizing the show at this point since we have no evidence for any of this one way or the other. But if people in this thread (as noted, the book thread) are gonna bring up the possibility of it being cut entirely and go, "It would be a great choice, completely unnecessary cuts are the hallmark of great adaptations, anyone who says otherwise is a trolling hater, all that really matters in WoT is the gender roles," I am gonna argue against that. This series is way more than "you ever notice how men cast magic like this but women cast magic like this". The choices it makes have enough symbolic weight that they're worth defending. Rand outright wonders why the prophecies give a gently caress about Callandor when the Choedan Kal are everything he could want out of a sa'angreal and don't get a mention. Every time he (or Moridin) tries to use "the sword that isn't a sword" like a weapon, they pay dearly for having done so. Callandor is part of Jordan's anti-war story and tossing it away in favor of the bigger gun - and saying it's a negligible change - is genuinely saddening.
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Mar 27, 2024 22:29
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Grundulum posted:The thing that gets me is that it’s very easy to show Rand as drawn to Callandor for the power it offers. Then you show him going bugfuck nuts during the Ilian campaign, and have him make the decision to purposely leave it behind until a moment of absolute necessity. Rand explains to someone onscreen that he can no longer trust himself not to reBreak the World with that sword in his possession. Bam. You’ve set up the sword’s extended absence, as well as its return at a moment of absolute necessity. Albeit with the power creep in the books that effect does get a bit neutered. Future Me Hates Me posted:Fair enough, I guess I just mean it makes more sense for a show that has time constraints. Callandor going into hibernation came off to me as a redsult of some of the sloppiness that came with Jordan extending the series past what he orginally intended.
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Mar 27, 2024 22:55
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Ravenson posted:It's a forum about complaining about poo poo you don't like and I paid money to do that.
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Mar 27, 2024 23:29
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Ravenson posted:This thread had been silent for a month until a show fan brought up show news. I did the same a few mths ago.
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Mar 27, 2024 23:30
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Ravenson posted:It's a forum about complaining about poo poo you don't like and I paid money to do that. *turns on monitor* Turns out the idiot was me all along
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Mar 27, 2024 23:38
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I keep getting the feeling that it's kinda weird to talk about how things might be in the TV show, because how things are in the books doesn't really matter and the books are more what I care about. Like, I can say that I just don't think Callandor and the Choedan Kal are interchangeable in the books. Their power levels and properties are very different, and if you take a scene where Rand uses one and trade it out for the other said scene would play out very differently. But that doesn't matter for the show because it has no requirement to adhere to that. It can do whatever it wants! And so any response to "well in the books..." can just be "who cares?". And that feels weird. Anyway.
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Mar 28, 2024 18:05
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The show sidelined Thom so hard he doesn’t even show up in season 2. It’s a travesty. gently caress you Rafe.
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Mar 28, 2024 18:41
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Invalid Validation posted:The show sidelined Thom so hard he doesn’t even show up in season 2. It’s a travesty. gently caress you Rafe.
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Mar 28, 2024 19:25
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DTurtle posted:That wasn't their choice. The actor had a scheduling conflict. Considering the actor's scheduling conflicts preventing him from appearing in the initial episodes of season 1, I can't help but feel that this was one of the show's few miscasts. A decent actor who will actually show up to play the part is always better than one you think is amazing but never available.
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Mar 28, 2024 19:27
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But he's young hot thom
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Mar 28, 2024 19:33
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Shageletic posted:But he's young hot thom Robbing us of old hot thom
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Mar 28, 2024 19:38
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He barely even has a single moustache, let alone multiple.
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Mar 28, 2024 20:50
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Thom peaked with The Man Who Can't Forget tbh
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Mar 28, 2024 21:11
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Ravenson posted:Considering the actor's scheduling conflicts preventing him from appearing in the initial episodes of season 1, I can't help but feel that this was one of the show's few miscasts. A decent actor who will actually show up to play the part is always better than one you think is amazing but never available.
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Mar 29, 2024 14:34
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If you use the time machine in the thread you'll see everyone salivate because he's a big name in spain or something. Usually good actors will read scripts and make their availability accordingly, gj rafe
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Mar 29, 2024 15:27
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Amazon is really at fault for the casting issues - the scheduling they want to do for seasons makes no sense. People need to work, and waiting months to know if a show is picked up creates these conflicts. Seems like this has been improved over the last year or so. The Thom actor is great and him coming and going isn't the end of the world. He does that a ton in the books. Doesn't hurt that he's a pretty perfect look for my minds-eye idea for the character. Re: Callandor - IMO, it's a perfectly cromulent thing to drop if the goal is eight seasons, particularly if all of S3 is going to be TSR. I remember being bummed how little it was used along the way considering how it was an entire book spent to acquire it. I think we learned from Ingtar that if a something isn't given it's full due, it's preferable that it's just dropped.
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Mar 30, 2024 17:15
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:If you use the time machine in the thread you'll see everyone salivate because he's a big name in spain or something. th3t00t fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Mar 31, 2024 |
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Mar 31, 2024 15:29
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For good reason, Morte is easily the best actor in the series so far
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Mar 31, 2024 15:44
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Maybe he should have been thom
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Mar 31, 2024 15:45
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How come the aiel don't look like Rand
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Mar 31, 2024 16:04
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flashman posted:How come the aiel don't look like Rand
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Mar 31, 2024 16:09
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For some reason they decided that Rand needed to cut his hair, despite his hair color being a significant story element, it’s just as odd as giving Loial that awful wig.
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Mar 31, 2024 17:06
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Oasx posted:For some reason they decided that Rand needed to cut his hair, despite his hair color being a significant story element, it’s just as odd as giving Loial that awful wig. I think the actor cut his hair for some other reason. But I could be wrong.
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Mar 31, 2024 17:08
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Oasx posted:For some reason they decided that Rand needed to cut his hair, despite his hair color being a significant story element, it’s just as odd as giving Loial that awful wig. He's hiding in Cairhien, a city where his height and hair color make him stand out.
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Mar 31, 2024 17:15
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Nihilarian posted:how many nba size ginger actors do you think there are Use that movie magic bro I've seen armies of elfs and poo poo
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Mar 31, 2024 18:11
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:He's hiding in Cairhien, a city where his height and hair color make him stand out. And where you definitely don't want people thinking "hey, that guy looks like an Aielman".
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Mar 31, 2024 19:25
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All episode titles have now been released (via WoT Series): (not in order) quote:To Race the Shadow
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Apr 9, 2024 09:54
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Ran across this odd statementLord of Chaos posted:A plain white vase stood atop a severe white plinth against one wall. The vase held roses, the number and color changing at every look, but always arranged with a harsh rigidity. Roses, at this time of year, in this weather! The One Power had been wasted to make them grow. Elaida had done the same when she was advisor to Elayne’s mother. Is there ever any more direct reference to the One Power being a limited resource? I can't really think of any. That would have made for quite a wrinkle on the story if it had been a thing
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Apr 13, 2024 00:02
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Data Graham posted:Ran across this odd statement I think it's more that channelers are a limited resource, not the One Power itself, but it's not surprising that one is conflated with the other
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Apr 13, 2024 00:05
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Data Graham posted:Ran across this odd statement
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Apr 13, 2024 01:19
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Imagine the Age of Legends era chat thread constantly talking about Peak One Power
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Apr 13, 2024 01:22
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There also technically a limited about of mana/spell slots per a day for each channeler. But no one talks about using up all of that each day. It's more along the lines of spending your time and energy to grow a purely decorative plant in the middle of winter/hell drought instead anything useful. Shageletic posted:Imagine the Age of Legends era chat thread constantly talking about Peak One Power Excuse me. SOMEONE put a lot of effort into solving that, and never got ANY thanks for her work.
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Apr 13, 2024 01:52
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jetz0r posted:There also technically a limited about of mana/spell slots per a day for each channeler. But no one talks about using up all of that each day. Yeah, it's this. The One Power is infinite, but the amount you can draw is not. In a drought, using it to grow roses is no different to using your lawn sprinklers.
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Apr 13, 2024 12:10
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Shageletic posted:Imagine the Age of Legends era chat thread constantly talking about Peak One Power You may not like it, but this is what Peak One Power looks like.
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Apr 15, 2024 13:54
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Oh yeah I said I'd be posting thoughts on the book for my reread. Guess I should be doing that. I started this on my tumblr so you can find all my thoughts on books 1 and 2 there. As for the Prologue...quote:Pedron Niall’s aged gaze wandered about his private audience chamber, but dark eyes hazed with thought saw nothing. We start out this book with the Whitecloak icon because we're in Whitecloak town. And as is usual in Whitecloak town, every person in the place is looking around wildly and still completely blind to what's in front of them. quote:Still, he was suddenly aware of the tendon-ridged back of the hand holding the drawing, aware of the need for haste. Time was growing short. His time was growing short. It had to be enough. He had to make it enough. We do see evidence here and there that despite being a Whitecloak, Niall isn't a completely contemptible person but... He is of course still completely wrong. He's not going to make it to the Last Battl and it won't be old age that takes him. He's in audience with a guy who could be warning him about the threat that will destroy his country but is focused on something else entirely. quote:It is a worse madness than any false Dragon I’ve ever heard of. Thousands have declared for him already. Tarabon and Arad Doman are in civil war, as well as at war with each other. There is fighting all across Almoth Plain and Toman Head, Taraboner against Domani against Darkfriends crying for the Dragon—or there was fighting until winter chilled most of it. I’ve never seen it spread so quickly, my Lord Captain Commander. Like throwing a lantern into a hay barn. Considering how in-depth the series gets later on, it's a bit surprising we don't get much of a taste of this initial conflict. This all-consuming war, IIRC, continues to run on and off for pretty much the rest of the series, though the Seanchan do quiet it down and reframe it a great deal in the latter half. quote:“Lord Captain Bornhald said they called themselves Seanchan, my Lord Captain Commander,” Byar said stolidly. “He said they were Darkfriends. And his charge broke them, even if they killed him.” Even when Byar touches on the Seanchan it's only in ways that actually misinform Niall. No wonder the LCC is so frustrated with this conversation. quote:“By this one Darkfriend you spoke of, Child Byar?” He could not keep an edge out of his own voice. A year’s planning lay in ruins amid the corpses of a thousand of the Children, and Byar wanted to talk only of this one man. “This young blacksmith you’ve only seen twice, this Perrin from the Two Rivers?” Dude is so Perrin-obsessed that I feel that Perrin's ta'veren must be working against them both under these circumstances. Just like how Rand's causes both good and bad things to happen at random, so too does Perrin attract allies and enemies. quote:Perhaps these wars meant nothing in themselves—men fought wars—but they usually came one at a time. And aside from the false Dragon somewhere on Almoth Plain, another tore at Saldaea, and a third plagued Tear. Three at once. Consider how different from Europe the setting of this story is, that wars come "one at a time". They don't have the population to sustain Renaissance war rates, even if they do still have the technology. quote:The Atha’an Miere, the Sea Folk, were said to be ignoring trade to seek signs and portents—of what, exactly, they did not say—sailing with ships half full or even empty. I believe this is the first mention of them acting weird, so... that's an additional complication to look forward to. quote:But Tar Valon had apparently sent other Aes Sedai to support the other false Dragon at Falme. Nothing else fit the facts. Props to Niall here for coming to a somewhat correct conclusion from a variety of incorrect data. quote:Carridin was tall, well into his middle years, with a touch of gray in his hair, yet fit and hard. His dark, deep-set eyes had a knowing look about them, as always. And he did not blink under the silent study of the Lord Captain Commander. Few men had consciences so clear or nerves so steady. It's pretty easy to have a clear conscience when you don't have any conscience at all. Shame Niall's not a good enough judge of character to see that. quote:To serve the Light. Not to serve the Children of the Light. All the Children served the Light, but Pedron Niall often wondered if the Questioners really considered themselves part of the Children at all. Maybe instead of setting up plans to conquer the continent you could have dealt with the Questioners, Niall? No? Just gonna let that poo poo heap fester in the sun? Great choice. Absolutely no knives in the back are coming your way... His eyes really aren't seeing anything in this chapter. quote:The Shadow’s plots are murky, and often seem mad to those who walk in the Light. Sad thing is, Carridan is probably perfectly accurate in this particular sentence. The Dark spends a lot of its time acting in ways to maximize the paranoia of the common folk, to keep the Light too divided to properly purge it before the end of the Age. quote:Few ships have tried to cross the Aryth Ocean, and most never returned. Those that did, turned back before they ran out of food and water. Even the Sea Folk will not cross the Aryth, and they sail wherever there is trade, even to the lands beyond the Aiel Waste. My Lord Captain Commander, if there are any lands across the ocean, they are too far to reach, the ocean too wide. To carry an army across it would be as impossible as flying. 1. The Seanchan also do fly, naturally. 2. As Niall points out, this isn't a proof, it's only a (logical) guess. 3. The Sea Folk actually have made it across a few times, though they refer to the far end as the Isles of the Dead or something similar. Carridin probably isn't pointing this out either because he doesn't know or if he does because he doesn't want to make reaching the Seanchan continent seem plausible. quote:“Most people think Trollocs are only travelers’ tales and lies, and most of the rest think they were all killed in the Trolloc Wars. What other name would they put to a Trolloc but monster?” This... also isn't proof. Shame the Whitecloaks don't like logic as much as the White Aes Sedai do. quote:“Even a false Dragon,” Niall said dryly, “is not enough to make them forget four hundred years of squabbling over possession of Almoth Plain. As if either of them ever had the strength to hold it.” Even the real Dragon only manages to unite them through his second-order unification, as they lie across the Seanchan/West divide otherwise. quote:“At first they were only rumors, my Lord Captain Commander. Rumors so wild, no one could believe. By the time I learned the truth, Bornhald had joined battle. He was dead, and the Darkfriends scattered. Besides, my task was to bring the Light to Almoth Plain. I could not disobey my orders to chase after rumors.” Bro doesn't even have a good excuse. If Niall wasn't busy scheming for his own agenda, he could have ended Carridan here and now and saved everyone a lot of trouble. quote:He would never put forward one of his own, but I doubt he’d quibble if I named you. A few days under the question, and you would confess to anything. Name yourself Darkfriend, even. You would go under the headsman’s axe inside a week. Actually perhaps I'm overoptimistic here. Perhaps the High Inquisitor - or just the Darkfriends amid the Whitecloaks - would ferry Carridin away or arrange for an early demise before he could give away any information at all. Replace him with the next dude, same as the first. quote:Loose a lion—a rabid lion—in the streets. And when panic grips the people, once it has turned their bowels to water, calmly tell them you will deal with it. Then you kill it, and order them to hang the carcass up where everyone can see. Before they have time to think, you give another order, and it will be obeyed. And if you continue to give orders, they will continue to obey, for you will be the one who saved them, and who better to lead? Niall of course foreshadows Perrin's rise to power, though the boy does it kicking and screaming. quote:Niall rubbed his hands together. He felt cold. The dice were spinning, with no way of telling what pips would show when they stopped. In a way, Niall inadvertently views himself as a dark mirror to all three ta'veren. Perrin, by means of creating an enemy to unite people; Mat, as a Great General with a focus on gambling, and Rand... quote:But he, Pedron Niall, would unite humankind behind the banners of the Children of the Light. There would be new legends, to tell how Pedron Niall had fought Tarmon Gai’don, and won. Rand like this. quote:A month before, in the dead of winter, the gangly little man had arrived in Amadicia, ragged and half-frozen, and somehow managed to talk his way through all the layers of guards to Pedron Niall himself. He seemed to know things about events on Toman Head that were not in Carridin’s voluminous if obscure reports, or in Byar’s tale, or in any other report or rumor that had come to Niall. His name was a lie, of course. In the Old Tongue, Ordeith meant “wormwood.” "Wormwood" is a Book of Revelation reference: "The third angel blew his trumpet, and a great star fell from heaven, blazing like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many died from the water, because it was made bitter." But also, poor, poor Niall. He sees himself as a man of cold logic (steel, cuendillar, etc.) but with Ordeith around whatever virtues he had are assuredly doomed. quote:The Two Rivers,” Niall mused. “Someone else mentioned another Darkfriend from there, another youth. Strange to think of Darkfriends coming from a place like that. But truly they are everywhere.” Niall is almost, ALMOST clever enough to realize how stupid this claim is... But Ordeith's a fast talker. quote:Much of the drawing was only a smudge, and a rip ran across the young man’s breast, but miraculously the face was untouched. Fain can tear Rand up physically, as can most of the Shadow, but despite everything, the boy remains. quote:“Perhaps I must make plans for the Two Rivers. When the snows clear. Perhaps.” “As the Great Lord wishes,” Ordeith said blandly. And so we set up... next book's plot. Seems a little premature for this book's prologue but sure! Also note that Ordeith calls Niall the same thing all the Darkfriends call the Dark One. You'd think a real servant of the light would notice and object... quote:It was a man in form, no larger than most, but there the resemblance ended. Dead black clothes and cloak, hardly seeming to stir as it moved, made its maggot-white skin appear ever paler. And it had no eyes. That eyeless gaze filled Carridin with fear, as it had filled thousands before. Oddly, the wiki says that this is the first appearance of Shaidar Haran and that it was only described as a "very tall Myrddraal" at this stage but as you can see, this Myrddraal is actually... a little short for a storm trooper. I'm going to make the executive decision that no, this Fade is not even an early SH variant and that if Jordan wanted me to think so he should have put it in the text where it belonged instead of interviews after the fact. quote:The Halfman’s bloodless lips quirked in a smile. “Where there is shadow, there may I go.” There really must be some other limit to the Myrddraal's shadow-stepping technique because otherwise one of them should have just stepped in Rand's shadow and killed him if they wanted him dead so bad. quote:The Myrddraal grated, “Your Lord Captain Commander’s words are dung! You were commanded to find the human called Rand al’Thor and kill him. That before all else. Above all else! Why are you not obeying?” And so we see the trap that Carridin is in, an interesting trap indeed considering that in later books Rand will be off the kill list. It's a good thing Ba'alsy is mad enough for the inconsistency to just seem to be his illness and nothing more. Though perhaps this Fade works for one of the other Forsaken (Sammael? Rahvin?) It certainly isn't the DO deciding this (another thing that makes it hard to believe it's SH), because his orders are even clearer: let the Lord of Chaos rule. quote:“Hear me, human. You will find this youth and kill him as quickly as possible. Do not think you can dissemble. There are others of your children who will tell me if you turn aside in your purpose. But I will give you this to encourage you. If this Rand al’Thor is not dead in a month, I will take one of your blood. A son, a daughter, a sister, an uncle. You will not know who until the chosen has died screaming. If he lives another month, I will take another. And then another, and another. And when there is no one of your blood living except yourself, if he still lives, I will take you to Shayol Ghul itself.” Frankly Mr. not-Haran, I don't think that's a great threat for Carridin until you invoked his suffering. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who cares about his family at all... quote:With his good hand Carridin struck the basket from Sharbon’s hands, sending withered winter apples rolling across the carpets, and backhanded the man across the face. The hierarchy of evil is so pathetic, isn't it? Ah well. So ends the third book's prologue. The first book's prologue was an Age before the main story and sets up the conflict of the book and the series clearly. The second book's prologue was at least a little before the chapters of the second book and set up the conflict of the book and the series clearly. This prologue doesn't bother with that and instead sets the tone for the vast majority of the prologues to come: checking in on the plot threads that aren't doing anything this book. Probably one of my least favorite structural choices in these books, but it's a minor quibble. Next time: Rampant abuse of innocent corvids.
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Apr 16, 2024 05:35
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jetz0r posted:There also technically a limited about of mana/spell slots per a day for each channeler. But no one talks about using up all of that each day. Yeah, that was the argument Elayne conveyed when she met Rand in EotW. While winter continued across Andor and beyond Elaida had made a palace garden a beautiful green garden full of flowers. When Elayne complained it was unfair, Elaida said she could have helped one farm instead but not everywhere. But still, when people are hungry wouldn't that provide more value than a private display of flowers in the palace? It was one of the first big clues that that whole "servants of all" thing didn't match up with the claims. Likewise eliminating rats in the palace, but specifically because she didn't like them.
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Apr 16, 2024 05:53
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Killer robot posted:Yeah, that was the argument Elayne conveyed when she met Rand in EotW. While winter continued across Andor and beyond Elaida had made a palace garden a beautiful green garden full of flowers. When Elayne complained it was unfair, Elaida said she could have helped one farm instead but not everywhere. But still, when people are hungry wouldn't that provide more value than a private display of flowers in the palace? It was one of the first big clues that that whole "servants of all" thing didn't match up with the claims. Likewise eliminating rats in the palace, but specifically because she didn't like them. Yes and no. One farm worth of extra food will save a few people from starving, but the appearance of normalcy for visitors to the palace (things are fine, look at the flowers!) might have way more value in terms of stability, preventing riots/rebellion/civil war, and all that might cause way more death and starvation than one farm would prevent. Morgase probably would have asked Elaida to help with the food if she didn't agree.
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Apr 16, 2024 20:09
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Gully Foyle posted:Morgase probably would have asked Elaida to help with the food if she didn't agree. And also, y'know, Caemlyn was pretty literally on the brink of rebellion/riots/civil war at the time and I have serious doubts that the plants that these people couldn't see (they were behind the castle walls, after all) were doing much of anything. It's very definitely meant as a tell that the Aes Sedai Could Totally Do Something and that they Totally Aren't.
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Apr 16, 2024 20:34
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