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ungulateman posted:aren't there in-game documents explicitly stating that the church supported faerghus splitting away from the adrestian empire lmao Kind of. The original split, and Leicester splitting off from Faerghus, were both engineered by the Agarthans. The Church simply recognized the splits after they happened. My impression is that Rhea didn't give a poo poo about the politics in Fodlan except insofar as they seemed to directly relate to her own grip on power.
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Aug 19, 2021 02:56
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ungulateman posted:aren't there in-game documents explicitly stating that the church supported faerghus splitting away from the adrestian empire lmao No, they mediated the peace after the fact. They did not arm Loog or support him in any way. The trashy DLC library has a report with Hubert's Slither euphemism on it that says something else too, though if anything's fake in there it's probably that one
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Aug 19, 2021 02:57
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ungulateman posted:aren't there in-game documents explicitly stating that the church supported faerghus splitting away from the adrestian empire lmao There's evidence indicating that both Slytherins and Church independently helped in the Kingdom's formation. The Slytherin evidence is from the Shadow Library, where it's implied Pan was a Slytherin agent who supplied Loog with Slytherin gear. The Church evidence is from stuff like the Monastery dialogue regarding Church's legitimization of Loog's rebellion as "the holy kingdom", the borders of the nations and the positioning of GM and so on. The way it seems to have gone is that Loog rebelled (maybe on Slytherin prompting, maybe just wanting a crown himself), the Slytherins threw in their weight behind Loog to gently caress over the Empire (which at the time was strongly tied to the Church) and then the Church also supported Loog which, amusingly enough, undercut the Slytherin efforts in forming the Kingdom by tying the Kingdom to the Church via it's title and legitimacy. Rhea seems to have politically, unknowingly, completely outplayed the Slytherins (changed what was supposed to be the formation into an anti-CoS nation into a nation that is the most supportive of the CoS) and all it cost was a significant part of the Church's relation with the now-weakened Empire. Shinji117 fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Aug 19, 2021 |
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Aug 19, 2021 02:58
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...Ah, hell, why not. Update 116. (SSLP Test Poster version here.) I can't hold onto a completed update for very long, turns out.
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Aug 19, 2021 03:43
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good update! kudos on getting through it on maddening, you crazy diamond you. hopefully the thread will be able to appreciate the ending and the great gameplay on display instead of circling into the same bullshit nonsense discourse that this thread has been whirling around in for ages and ages
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Aug 19, 2021 03:57
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Villain route done time for the route of the true hero.
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Aug 19, 2021 03:58
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Kinu Nishimura posted:good update! kudos on getting through it on maddening, you crazy diamond you. hopefully the thread will be able to appreciate the ending and the great gameplay on display instead of circling into the same bullshit nonsense discourse that this thread has been whirling around in for ages and ages  Good work Rea! Only one more to go!
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Aug 19, 2021 04:19
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Kinu Nishimura posted:good update! kudos on getting through it on maddening, you crazy diamond you. hopefully the thread will be able to appreciate the ending and the great gameplay on display instead of circling into the same bullshit nonsense discourse that this thread has been whirling around in for ages and ages Those were some terrifying crits at around the midway point. And I feel like more than any other, this has really made me think more about giving units weapons their class isn't quote unquote "designed" for, beyond a bow for Curved Shot or a sword on mages sometimes. Felix swinging swords around along with axes on wyvernback and Dimitri going ham with Mercurius while still in Great Lord are just things it wouldn't normally occur to me to do. Not sure why. And yeah, I'm really not quite sure how the pairing system works sometimes. You'd think that if any of those unpaired units had gotten to an A support with another then it'd just hand it to you. (I shall withhold the extent of my Frustrated Feelings about the Alois and Leonie end because I feel like I take it in a lot less good humor than the game intends.) Dimitri and Dedue is just really touching and feels important and right. Regardless of how you may feel about Dimitri himself, he has some very strong paired endings. Looking forward to Helping The Girl Singing The Theme Song!
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Aug 19, 2021 05:06
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McTimmy posted:Villain route done time for the route of the true hero. Ferdinand is indeed ready to put the black eagles on his back and carry
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Aug 19, 2021 05:17
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Apex of the World is really, really good and everyone should listen to it. I'm ambivalent on Azure Moon as a route in general, but you get to hear AotW and it's the only route where you can recruit Dedue, so... hm.
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Aug 19, 2021 05:20
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So thank you for demonstrating why I should never, ever play maddening; it was interesting to watch , but not something I could ever put myself through. ...Which I guess means it's time to help the Red Emperor do an imperialism. Yay. 
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Aug 19, 2021 05:20
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Captainicus posted:Ferdinand is indeed ready to put the black eagles on his back and carry Yes, but not in the way you might expect.
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Aug 19, 2021 05:22
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I am not surprised that Maddening Hegemon Edelgard is so buggy, given the game itself has so many bugs. Fun fact: you can actually kill Hegemon Edelgard on Maddening with a simple integer overflow bug! Because she's standing on a throne that heals her for a percentage of her HP, doing a small amount of damage to Edelgard (on her last HP bar, mind) will cause her HP to loop into negative amounts when healed by the throne, thus the game treats her as having died. But yes, so ends Azure Moon. A route where you barely scratch the surface of the problems of Fodlan (seriously, the only way for Dimitri to even directly confront the Agarthans is for him to pair up with Hapi...and only in the coda of their paired ending), but also plagued by a lot of weird decisions and what feel like seriously underdeveloped plot ideas. But now we move onto Crimson Flower, a route that has its own issues with people, but a good number of them can be properly summed up with "IntSys/Koei Tecmo really shouldn't have waited until they were 80% done with the game to start working on this route".
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Aug 19, 2021 05:46
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Azure Moon is definitely the most complete of the routes, but it's complete in sort of the same way Birthright was 'complete' in Fates - as a way to make you want to figure out what the gently caress is actually going on via the other routes. At least this time they're not sold separately? (Whether you prefer Crimson Flower or Verdant Wind as 'the route that explains what the gently caress is actually going on' is entirely subjective.)
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Aug 19, 2021 05:57
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Rea posted:Yes, but not in the way you might expect. I just meant 'noble who didn't get the memo that the system doesn't work and nobles aren't actually beneveolent leaders' makes him a very endearing, honest, and amusing character. I'm curious now what your gameplay plans are for him, I just made him a fortress knight in CF so I had a tanky, high def frontliner to rely on.
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Aug 19, 2021 06:07
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If any characters are 'essential' on this map, it's Dimitri and Mercedes. It really saves your turn economy if Mercedes ends up being one of the ones Edelgard picks on due to her self-heal passive. And Dimitri also preserves a lot of resources by always being targeted and being able to dodge it basically all the time. Myson can be removed by the combination of Lysithea + Thyrsus + Dark Range up. He's within 5 tiles of the room to the left, so say hi to Luna! Curved Shots + Bow Knights are also a reasonable option too. Even if they get hit, Mercedes is still likely there if you're making life easier on yourself for this map, so Fortify fixes that issue. I really don't understand why they plonked treasure chests in this map, nor the stat booster. It was to the point where I didn't realize it was the last map because of that and the story feeling really really incomplete. Azure Moon ends at the point where there's obviously still the evil derps running around, but then you just stop. I kind of think Verdant Wind's the most complete Fire Emblem experience honestly. It has a bit of intrigue yes, but it feels the most standard Fire Emblem of the bunch. While there's hanging questions still around, it's not to the state of Azure Moon's 'this entire evil faction is still active'.
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Aug 19, 2021 06:10
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You can also plop down a counterattack gambit battalion on someone and just laugh as Myson kills himself.Keldulas posted:I really don't understand why they plonked treasure chests in this map, nor the stat booster. It was to the point where I didn't realize it was the last map because of that and the story feeling really really incomplete. Azure Moon ends at the point where there's obviously still the evil derps running around, but then you just stop. It's just because the map itself is from SS originally, so they didn't bother to remove the chests. Same thing with the chests on Nemesis's map too, probably.
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Aug 19, 2021 06:48
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Yay! The end is near! I may finally be able to post Edelgard Swears and Edelgard Swears Some More!
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Aug 19, 2021 08:43
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Jadecore posted:And yeah, I'm really not quite sure how the pairing system works sometimes. You'd think that if any of those unpaired units had gotten to an A support with another then it'd just hand it to you. It's actually real simple. Characters keep accumulating support points after hitting A, and the more support points a pairing has, the more it is weighted. If you go to the fortune teller and enter the "intertwine fates" menu, all available pairings will be listed, top to bottom, in order of priority. Whichever pair is at the top will get a paired ending. Then the next pair on the list of two currently unpaired characters will get one, repeating until the list has been exhausted. Adan/Abby's pick takes precedence, of course, and depending on who it is, you can set off a whole cascade event and get massively different endings because they snagged the top hunk/babe. Similarly, actually paying to intertwine fates will put a pair ahead of the queue. There's also some A supports which don't have paired endings, which can mess you up. You can also pay the fortune teller to Deepen Bonds for characters that already have a maxed support rank, which does nothing but move them up the list. If you have a lot of favorite pairings, you can order the prioritized list so each of them will happen. The only risk of this is that supports will still build up during the endgame map(s) which can shift pairs around. You can, for instance, make sure that every single pairing that happens is gay, spending only a couple thousand renown.
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Aug 19, 2021 09:11
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The silly thing is that you can get A+ pairings and you'd think that would bump them up the queue, but nah.
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Aug 19, 2021 09:22
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The AM bromances pretty much wipe out half the noble lines every time I try to match make, there's your revolution
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Aug 19, 2021 09:43
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To commentate on the final map on maddening. I prefer VW's finale pretty significantly to this. With all the tools an optimised maddening team has available, there isn't honestly that much that's challenging here. If you move your entire army in Hedge range turn 1 you can figure out who she's going to prioritize attacks on, so Dimitri and someone else, who will typically be your character with the lowest def. At that point you just plonk those two in a corner within Hedge's range and just give them 5 concoctions. Every turn she pings them and you just concoction to heal through the damage, removing the mechanic from the map. The hardest thing to deal with by far is the Meteor reinforcements if you don't know they're coming. On my run they took something like four or five lives off me before I managed to evacuate my entire army to the other side of the map and sit Mercedes in their range to just tank all the meteor hits until the Dark knights showed. Beyond that, there's just not much to it. You wyvern lord/bolting/bow knight down an enemy, withdraw to defensive range and then kill the pack you aggro as a result. This just happens over and over again with very little variation because the troops your fighting aren't really that diverse. Edit: Also colour me surprised that you didn't use the Chalice of Beginnings with Dimitri Battallion Vantage/Battallion Wrath combo on this map. Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Aug 19, 2021 |
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Aug 19, 2021 11:47
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Rea posted:I don't think there's a definitive answer for why Adan and Yuri why lived so long and didn't physically age. Adan and Flayn's paired ending mentions the two also not physically aging, but that's...sort of it? Adan, I can understand, he's got the power of Sothis in him, but Yuri is a complete mystery. Worth noting that Yuri's paired ending with Constance mentions the two of them passing away at the same time, in the same bed, so the guy's not just immortal and we never noticed. There's theories that the old man who healed Yuri when he was deathly ill was the apostle Aubin, and I imagine the blood of someone who's been alive for almost a millenium would do some interesting things to you...but again, there's no definite answer for that. Just one of the many questions the game leaves unanswered. This was answered in an interview, actually! Officially, Byleth, Seteth, and Flayn do the same ritual Rhea did for Jeralt to give their spouse their same extended lifespan (outside CF). Regarding the mission, Myson is the guy I call That Fucker, and he's the reason I tend to give Ashe the Failnaught on this mission. Failnaught with Deadeye on a bow knight lets Ashe snipe him from inside the starting room. As for the ending, the bit about giving everyone a voice in government is why I choose to read Dimitri as moving Fodlan towards a constitutional monarchy: establishing a Parliament while Byleth and Seteth reform the Church. And since no one, including me, wants me following this LP through Crimson Flower and offering my thoughts, I'll simply say thank you for a wonderful LP! This LP convinced me to buy the game, which I do like quite a lot despite all the flaws. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Aug 19, 2021 |
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Aug 19, 2021 12:03
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Melomane Mallet posted:So thank you for demonstrating why I should never, ever play maddening; it was interesting to watch , but not something I could ever put myself through. What do you think imperialism means? Cythereal posted:And since no one, including me, wants me following this LP through Crimson Flower and offering my thoughts, I'll simply say thank you for a wonderful LP! This LP convinced me to buy the game, which I do like quite a lot despite all the flaws. C’mon, you’ve been safely throwing shade on CF protected by ‘no spoilers!’ from the CF crowd and you want to bounce before they can retort?
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Aug 19, 2021 15:10
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Clawtopsy posted:C’mon, you’ve been safely throwing shade on CF protected by ‘no spoilers!’ from the CF crowd and you want to bounce before they can retort? I don't think filling the thread with more "Your interpretation is wrong!" "Nuh uh!" "Is too!" back and forth bickering when almost everyone in the thread has already made up their mind would be a good thing, no.
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Aug 19, 2021 15:16
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Perfect Potato posted:The sheeple just don't know that they're suffering, luckily my yass slay queen is there to set them straight This seems like a really obviously bad take. Let's just assume that the DLC books don't exist. We know that under the Crest system as encouraged by the church, entire families of children are tortured to death in crest experiments to take advantage of the situation. (Lysithea) We know that children and mothers are removed from their families if they don't give birth to heirs with crests (Mercedes) We know that under Faerghus, entire ethnic minorities are pogrommed because of the deep seated racism in the area. (Dimitri/Dedue) I could go on but the game goes to great lengths to show that the status quo of the world has massive amounts of suffering endured by people at all levels of society. Yes, Edelgard's vision of the world is fundamentally shaped by her own experiences, but that does not mean that suffering is just something that happens to nobles. Nor does it mean that even if suffering were simply isolated to the nobility that something shouldn't be done to stop it.
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Aug 19, 2021 15:48
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More generally, we can look at... really any point in history, but lets single out 2020. And see how a steady feed of xenophobia, ignorance, and the conviction that if you are prospering it's because God looks favorably on you (and if you are not it's because You Deserve It) can easily turn mass swathes of a populous against their own best interests to serve those higher in the social hierarchy. And that's among a population that's achieved mass literacy, and thus can readily seek out information that may contradict the lies they've been fed and simply choose not to. The Church of Seiros wields a much stronger control over the populous, and with far fewer voices of authority speaking out against these practices for people to rally around.
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Aug 19, 2021 16:10
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Cythereal posted:I don't think filling the thread with more "Your interpretation is wrong!" "Nuh uh!" "Is too!" back and forth bickering when almost everyone in the thread has already made up their mind would be a good thing, no. I mean you engage in Edelgard Discourse quite frequently itt it's just we never really got to the "nuh uh" part because of the whole 'No Spoilers' thing...? 
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Aug 19, 2021 16:59
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Clawtopsy posted:What do you think imperialism means? Dictionary.com posted:1. the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries, or of acquiring and holding colonies and dependencies. Edelgard is absolutely an imperialist.
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Aug 19, 2021 17:46
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They're all imperialist.
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Aug 19, 2021 18:07
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I don't have much to add. Maddening is Maddening, and I'd never play it. I honestly don't care if these games are easy, because the story is appealing and I want to be able to enjoy it without struggling too much. And as for the story proper... I just don't think I'll ever be able to truly vocalize why I think Edelgard is in the wrong, because I'm looking at it with all the critical analysis of a child. She's the lady we're fighting, surely she's not worth listening to! And some such. I think this is why I sided with Claude. I just wanted to embrace the worldbuilding more than the conflict between right and wrong.
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Aug 19, 2021 18:23
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Cythereal posted:This was answered in an interview, actually! Officially, Byleth, Seteth, and Flayn do the same ritual Rhea did for Jeralt to give their spouse their same extended lifespan (outside CF). This makes sense, but it also seems weird and vaguely unethical. True love, I guess!
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Aug 19, 2021 18:25
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DanielCross posted:This makes sense, but it also seems weird and vaguely unethical. True love, I guess! Byleth/Yuri isn't the only time it comes up, either. Many of Byleth's endings outside CF specifically make note of Byleth eventually stepping down from their position in favor of a successor - I don't think there's a single ending that actually talks about Byleth's death. And if Byleth marries Flayn, in any route, their ending notes that they remain eternally young even after they retire to a small villa on the coast.
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Aug 19, 2021 19:34
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Melomane Mallet posted:Edelgard is absolutely an imperialist. McTimmy posted:They're all imperialist. Throwing 'Edelgard is an imperialist' isn't the sick own many think it is for the above reason.
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Aug 19, 2021 21:34
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edelgard is the best and we're finally going to find out why
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Aug 19, 2021 21:40
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Can we cool it with the hot takes and the snipping at each other, please? I don't want to have to lock the thread after every update for the final route.
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Aug 19, 2021 21:40
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It's a bit funny in this case that it happened because someone was trying to leave the conversation to not be involved in it, and it just kind of sprouted from there.
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Aug 19, 2021 23:41
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Cythereal posted:This was answered in an interview, actually! Officially, Byleth, Seteth, and Flayn do the same ritual Rhea did for Jeralt to give their spouse their same extended lifespan (outside CF). Lysithea: and I get no pairings with any of them except Byleth why?
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Aug 20, 2021 01:21
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Natural 20 posted:This seems like a really obviously bad take. Let's just assume that the DLC books don't exist. *literal evil molemen who are responsible for crests existing as a concept continue their insidious experiments* This is the church's fault!!!!! lmao -church teachings state that nobles abused their power and caused the goddess to leave -they literally have Hanneman on their payroll -crest blood has become heavily diluted and even minor crests tend to skip generations, major crests are insanely rare -many noble houses particularly in the Alliance and Empire have no explicitly stated crest heritage Here, facts based on the actual game in bulletpoint that are not based on mismemory and deranged headcanon
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Aug 20, 2021 02:11
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Perfect Potato posted:*literal evil molemen who are responsible for crests existing as a concept continue their insidious experiments* I said to cool it with the aggro posting. Please. Surely we can discuss the text of the game without saying poo poo like "deranged headcanon."
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Aug 20, 2021 02:18
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