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Also the forced marriage would have been incest but they kinda just skip right over that
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Sep 9, 2019 16:59
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Fabricated posted:Also the forced marriage would have been incest but they kinda just skip right over that I said that in my post but it really does bear repeating
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Sep 9, 2019 17:06
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Somehow I missed that. Also The arc before the final one had developments that annoyed the readers so much the writer issued an apology on Twitter
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Sep 9, 2019 17:43
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Endorph posted:
Vegeta letting 18 get absorbed was literally cause they didnt like the frog lips lol Fabricated posted:For some reason I remember Kubo basically shittalking Jump editorial at some point after Bleach ended. Editorial conflict isn't too unusual. Bleach went on for 12 years so both could probably be true. Stairmaster fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Sep 9, 2019 |
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Sep 9, 2019 17:49
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Endorph posted:The funny part of DBZ is that the whole android saga rotating door of villains thing wasn't even because of his *actual* editor. His previous editor just called him up to shittalk each villain he came up with and Toriyama acquiesced because that man had put the fear of god in him even if he had no power over him anymore. I actually think Toriyama and his editor had a good author editor relationship. Everything I've read seems to suggest that he had a good way of getting Toriyama to push himself and wouldn't let him be lazy. It's a far cry from say, Bleach where Tite absolutely hated his editors which lead to a big downward spiral.
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Sep 9, 2019 18:01
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Monaghan posted:I actually think Toriyama and his editor had a good author editor relationship. Everything I've read seems to suggest that he had a good way of getting Toriyama to push himself and wouldn't let him be lazy. Yeah that's the impression I got too. Toriyama took the guy's criticism to heart because he trusted him.
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Sep 9, 2019 19:35
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Clarste posted:Don't make excuses, Medaka Box was just Nisio throwing poo poo at the wall for its entire run. Those two pages where he looks livid as hell were so loving good.
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Sep 9, 2019 19:40
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After all these years I'm still a bit pissed about Mx0.
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Sep 9, 2019 19:55
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SUN-KEN ROCK
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Sep 9, 2019 20:05
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Schubalts posted:I loving wish it was only 10+ chapters. It kept going for multiple volumes, right up until the last couple chapters of the series, and then they had the gall to end it on a giant sequel hook cliffhanger. "Rape Namek" is somehow an accurate description. iirc at the chapter release rate it lasted around 2 years. TheKingofSprings posted:Shokugeki no Souma didn’t get a last minute wrap-up axe like Bleach but it did get a very transparent final arc that somehow made absolutely nobody happy with anything about it. The author also decided to make the impending threat a forced marriage that we also find out in the last two (bonus chapters, because the manga wasn’t allowed anything resembling a satisfying wrap-up chapter in the actual magazine) chapters was going to be incestuous if it went through. I only ever got like, half way through both Bleach and Shokugeki no Souma, what happened with Bleach anyways? I didn't even realize SnS was over.
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Sep 9, 2019 20:57
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Bleach basically had two really well thought out arcs (the rescuing Rukia arc and the big arc vs Aizen) and the rest was the author desperately trying to fulfill their obligation to Jump. None of it was planned ahead very well at all. To the point a lot of foreshadowing early on was completely forgotten by the author later on until someone pointed it out to him.
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Sep 9, 2019 21:02
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Cuntellectual posted:I only ever got like, half way through both Bleach and Shokugeki no Souma, what happened with Bleach anyways? I'm still hella mad about Souma, so whoever wants to explain that trainwreck, be my loving guest.
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Sep 9, 2019 21:04
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Cuntellectual posted:"Rape Namek" is somehow an accurate description. Bleach entered it's final arc, the hundred year war arc, and it was, much like the stuff leading up to fighting Aizen, a bunch of grunt fights against a whole new cast of characters with special powers. We finally get past that and start getting tidbits of whatever the final pieces of backstory/lore are, with ANOTHER group of mob fights, this time against actually interesting enemies, but the fights were taking forever and the plot was crawling at a snail's pace. It's clearly obvious that the magazine told Kubo "you have this many chapters to wrap everything up, that's it" because then pretty much the rest of these grunt battles happen offscreen, with a lot of stuff that was being foreshadowed/set up never being followed up on (like characters coming back with new abilities, Kenpachi's whole arc conclusion, whatever was going on with the Soul King, Chad went to Hueco Mundo to rescue some hollows, we never see it at all), and suddenly everyone who is conveniently needed to beat the final villain appears in the same place to help ichigo and beat the villain's omnipotence with a literal deus ex machina plot device. Final chapter wraps that up and gives a short resolution showing the characters in the future. The funny part is, iirc right before the magazine announced there would be only X chapters left, Kubo gave the viewers the biggest blueballs Ichigo never actually was using his true shinigami/ bankai, but rather latent Quincy powers pretending to be his shikai/bankai. Ichigo finally obtains his real bankai, and before he even gets to use it, his swords are destroyed by the villain. You never get to see what his bankai would have been. I like to think that that was the straw that broke the camel's back and lead to the sudden cancellation.
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Sep 9, 2019 21:17
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the rumor I've heard is that Kubo wanted to go back to a low stakes arc after soul society which you see inklings of when the vizards show up but the editors wanted more fights and made him cram additional arrancar invasions in there and it sort of spiraled from there. There's this clear moment at some point in hueco mundo where Kubo doesn't know how to progress the plot so he just has a few captains show up to have cool fights (Sort of like in dbz after perfect cell dunks on Trunks and Akira Toryiama pulls out the cell games from nowhere to keep poo poo going). Kubo also did take a two month break to plot out the final arc which shows because that first act had some really good set pieces but because of chronic illness and kubo's inability to write fights involving incredibly estoeric jojo-esque abilities things went to poo poo. Even then the last few chapters did have a few good beats like Gran Rey Getsuga Tensho and Ichigo and Renjis little bro-down moment. Also you do see Ichigos true bankai, he cuts the bad guy in half with it in the final chapter. 
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Sep 9, 2019 21:45
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Stairmaster posted:Also you do see Ichigos true bankai, he cuts the bad guy in half with it in the final chapter. It's not his bankai, he sword reverted to what was it's former shape, and the only explanation given to the reader for that is that the villain had a precognition of himself dying in that way, in a dream way earlier on, so Kubo had that happen, despite it making zero sense.
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Sep 9, 2019 22:04
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This part of the reason the final arc is so bad but: no it is his bankai. He tries to transform but ywach uses his reality warping powers to summon a future where it breaks but the bookmark guy comes by afterwards and stabs ichigo to rewrite the past so his sword is unbreakable by ywach. When he first goes bankai he has a bunch of armor on symbolizing the other powers in him but ywach sucked that out of him so in the last three chapters he's solely using the sword. in conclusion the final arc of bleach is a land of sharply contrast(ing quality)
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Sep 9, 2019 22:38
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Wark Say posted:Bleach at first felt like it was written for the trade/tankoubons, but then the battles went on for-loving-ever to the point that, like, in 150 chapters, only 24 hours have transpired of in-universe time. So after the various arcs leading up to the Moon Banquet arc you got a pretty cool series. Rivalries are established, badguys become new friends, the Elite 10 are really coming into the picture. Things look really good! Then just when you're ready for some fun stuff with the Elite 10, Azami shows up. Azami is Erina's dad and looks like a villain from Black Butler. He was so mentally and physically abusive to Erina that he lost custody of her to her Grandfather (the current head of the school), and merely upon seeing him again she has what you could pretty much call a panic attack. One of her flashbacks involves her doing taste testing when she looks maybe 6-8 years old; she tests a dish and says it's flawed and is going to finish it until Azami grabs her wrist and tells her to throw it in the trash- she says that it's wrong to waste food, but Azami squeezes her wrist until she starts screaming and crying in pain and eventually relents and throws it away as it cuts to an image of her- terrified with his specter lingering over her telling her to call anything that isn't perfect "trash". Azami for some unknown reason at the time wants to take over the school and alter its curriculum; replacing Shokugekis and the regular courses with a curriculum that doesn't weed anyone out but rather produces an army of highly skilled chefs... who all cook exactly like him. Somehow, from this his plan is to influence the Japanese restaurant industry and basically put anyone who isn't serving Azami-tier food out of business, or replace them all with his chefs. If this sounds really stupid it's because it is. Why you ask? Who knows! There's like 2-3 reasons that develop over time. Initially it's because Azami idolized Souma's dad Saiba and he resents the current culinary world because he thinks it being so lovely caused Souma's dad to drop out. As it turns Saiba didn't drop out because he was some too-cool-for-school aloof rebel guy who only wanted to learn how to cook cool stuff and didn't care about the degree (he kinda didn't though), but rather because the relentless pace of Totsuki/Shokugekis/competition in general led Saiba to have a nervous breakdown and quit. Later on it's suggested that he wanted to do this to create an army of super chefs who could keep Erina fed, because apparently many of the people in her bloodline that had the "god tongue" eventually developed such a refined palette they became unable to keep any food down and many literally died of starvation. How abusing Erina accomplishes this I'm not sure??? It's really bad! So Azami convinces enough of the Elite 10 to side with him and kick out the old headmaster and make him the new headmaster. He initiates his new curriculum and targets the Polar Star Dorm for expulsion because Erina literally flees there to avoid him. He devises a series of elaborate exams for all the students which are rigged against them, and mostly fails to take them out. This eventually comes down to a big group shokugeki with the Polar Star Dorm+friends vs the turned Elite 10 members (which includes Hayama, who does the world's most obvious heel-turn in an effort to save his not-girlfriend teacher/mother figure's lab). Around this time Tsukuda's food consultant came to the end of her pregnancy and was unavailable, so basically the food mostly vanishes and everyone who was a designated jobber, jobs- so the obvious winners could win. Souma delivers the final win and ousts Azami who walks off in a huff while Erina (internally) thanks him for uh...the abuse I guess. I believe one of the matches in this arc was so bad that Tsukuda apologized to the annoyed Japanese readers about it on twitter. But wait, it gets dumber! So now Souma is Seat 1 on the elite 10 and Erina is headmaster at 15 years old. Mission accomplished? Well, EVIL chefs start showing up in Japan and... cause... trouble, somehow?? They're the CUISINER NOIRS, wacky evil chefs who cook for criminals and dictators and poo poo. Well, Erina is having none of that and sends out the Elite 10 and crew to I guess defeat them in Shokugekis (of which you only see one- Megumi gets to own one) and...arrest them? For food crimes?? They're cops now and can restrain people against their will?? As it turns out this was merely a warning shot sent by a mysterious new character who is SOUMA'S SECRET BROTHER, Asahi- whose appearance is shown with him defeating Saiba in a shokugeki. I poo poo you not. Saiba met Souma's mom, had Souma, and on one of his trips became close to a kid who was at an orphanage he cooked at. This kid idolized him but Souma's mom suddenly died and Saiba had to go home, so he was upset. So he becomes a better-than-elite-10 tier chef and gets all these Cuisiner Noirs under his thumb and is now back for his mission: To marry Erina. No. Really. That's the goal- he took Saiba's "Find someone you want to cook for" very very literally. He infiltrates Totsuki as a teacher, Souma figures him out as the badguy, Asahi instantly defeats Souma in humiliating fashion. He tries to woo Erina, who obviously wants nothing to do with this loving weirdo who came from nowhere talking like he owns her already. So plan B: He has his evil chefs kidnap her. She remains, unsurprisingly, extremely unwooed by this. Okay, plan C- he convinces her to make a bet that if he wins the big world-wide top-tier cooking competition BLUE (this is actually mentioned way earlier in the series) that she'll marry him. So the final plot is the threat of Erina being forced into a marriage. But wait! it gets dumber! The bookmaster who runs BLUE decides to make it a "Light Chefs" vs "Dark Chefs" thing and pits the regular culinary world's chefs against the cuisiner noirs. Everyone you expect to job does so and there's very little food involved still because Tsukuda's consultant was still on maternity leave. This is replaced with all the new chefs having literal superpowers. Like actual superpowers and magic tools, not just preternatural cooking skills or senses. There's a woman with a spice chainsaw, a clown who juggles grilling balls, a guy who uses finger claws to turn low-grade beef into top-grade beef, etc. Asahi has the power to literally steal all the techniques of anyone he beats and takes the cooking knife of. Everyone else eventually jobs out but Souma, Erina, and Asahi. It gets down to the semi-finals and Souma of course defeats Asahi. Then Souma goes on to lose to Erina and the series basically wraps up from there. But wait! it gets dumber! There's 3 epilogue chapters because the series kinda got bum rushed out the door. It shows how Saiba met Souma's mom, how she died (she has a heart defect no one could detect and just dies unceremoniously a month after it's diagnosed), shows the kids when they're in their 20s and most of their fates. All well and good. But it turns out Asahi is Erina's half-brother because when Azami himself was a sad wanderer after Saiba wandered off, he met a random woman and knocked her up- leaving her to become an alcoholic who beat Asahi until she eventually drank herself to death. Asahi figures this out when he goes to his mom's grave out of respect and sees a group of people who presumably knew her and were leaving flowers while also...having a conversation where they essentially call her a drunk whore who bragged about loving a hot Japanese guy. It is the weirdest scene in a manga where people get molested by food. So the entire final arc was basically Asahi almost succeeding at committing incest. Souma still hasn't beaten his dad, still hasn't made Erina say his food is delicious, and nobody but Hayama appears to be married or in a relationship (he has a wedding ring). Final shot is Erina showing up to Souma's family restaurant with his friends to sample a new dish, with Souma thinking Erina might be the person he wants to make all his food for. I should be thrown in a dumpster for writing all of this or remembering it but it's one of the biggest swerves into a trash fire I've ever seen a series take. Reading all of this while it went on gave me brain damage and I should be made fun of viciously for recounting it. Fabricated fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Sep 10, 2019 |
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Sep 9, 2019 23:55
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sounds like i should reach bleach and food wars then
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Sep 10, 2019 00:01
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Don't know if it's due to axing or just natural end of the story, but Saotome Senshu is ending in 4 chapters.
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Sep 10, 2019 00:09
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Now, I'm wondering if editors are the reason, Ichigo and friends joined up with the authoritarian government, and Rukia got sidelined. The series went completely downhill after the soul society arc. Mary Grave was a great manga that had a lot of potential, but it unfortunately got axed. The author basically summed up everything that would have happened if the series didn't get cancelled in the last chapter. IShallRiseAgain fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Sep 10, 2019 |
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Sep 10, 2019 01:24
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Bro Dad posted:Wolf Guy Considering how protracted it's ending was, did it really get the axe? That poo poo is up there with the second Roberta arc in Black Lagoon in terms of "STILL???" story status It was so bad I hesitate to read the Mazinger comic that guy drew, even though his art is real good
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Sep 10, 2019 01:35
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You're a braver, crazier goon than most of us, Fabricated. And for that, we salute you.  Fabricated posted:I believe one of the matches in this arc was so bad that Tsukuda apologized to the annoyed Japanese readers about it on twitter.  This guy (Soe Nakiri) straight up admits that he'll be a fair and square judge, because the only thing he can't be fair + square about is with regards to who's the cutest of the women in his life: His lovely wife or his cute daughter. That's father/husband of the year material right there.  The reason it got readers annoyed is that it went for loving ever (didn't the whole duel from start to finish, took like 10+ chapters to complete?), despite the goofy cooking dad who gets shirtless. While I had problems with the anime's pacing post season 1, the fact that the anime bum-rushed through those 10+ chapters in 2 episodes felt like a blessing in disguise. Also it kinda made me glad that Ryotaro Okiayu ended up voicing the good Nakiri dad.
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Sep 10, 2019 01:58
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Now, I'm wondering if editors are the reason, Ichigo and friends joined up with the authoritarian government, and Rukia got sidelined. The series went completely downhill after the soul society arc. it was. Kubo and the fate/strange fake guy wrote three light novels a few years back that basically said soul society was bullshit and aizen was right.
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Sep 10, 2019 02:25
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U19 was another really bad Jump Start that got axed and had a pretty bonkers plot. It's Japanese kids next door but substitute the goofy fake technology for superpowers driven by desire called "Libido". Also the Adult faction wants to create an army of eugenics supersoldiers to take over the world and avenge Japan's loss in WWII.
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Sep 10, 2019 02:52
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Revalis Enai posted:I remember the last of Yakitate Japan got really loving weird. I remember liking the series but the end totally killed it for me. I just want to say, for anyone who wasn't aware, the last two chapters has Kazuma make bread so delicious that it turns Kawachi into Dhalsim from SF2, who causes all of the Earth's landmasses to levitate so as to avoid global sea level rise, which results in Kazuma getting nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.
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Sep 10, 2019 04:12
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Fantastic Flyer posted:I remember reading a series called Banana no Nana where the creator clearly had no idea how to end it in a way that made sense while keeping true to how he wanted it to end. The secondary protagonist was launched to the moon and the final two chapters had a bunch of nobodies we've never seen before acting like best pals with the protagonist, who is also launched to the moon and has graphic lesbian sex with aforementioned secondary protagonist. It wraps up quick especially for a shonen battle thing but the two protags having lesbian sex seemed very planned and in character from the rest of the comic
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Sep 10, 2019 04:17
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Fabricated posted:The bookmaster who runs BLUE decides to make it a "Light Chefs" vs "Dark Chefs" thing and pits the regular culinary world's chefs against the cuisiner noirs. Everyone you expect to job does so and there's very little food involved still because Tsukuda's consultant was still on maternity leave. This is replaced with all the new chefs having literal superpowers. Like actual superpowers and magic tools, not just preternatural cooking skills or senses. There's a woman with a spice chainsaw, a clown who juggles grilling balls, a guy who uses finger claws to turn low-grade beef into top-grade beef, etc. Asahi has the power to literally steal all the techniques of anyone he beats and takes the cooking knife of. Everyone else eventually jobs out but Souma, Erina, and Asahi. It gets down to the semi-finals and Souma of course defeats Asahi. Then Souma goes on to lose to Erina and the series basically wraps up from there. For bonus points, this arc proceeds to dump pretty much all of Erina's development from the previous 150 chapters for no loving reason and her characterization reached the worst stage it had in the whole series. Also the fight Tsukuda apologized for was Souma vs. Hayama, that fight was a trainwreck weekly. And yet somehow much better than so much of what came afterwards. E: Shokugeki just gets my goat because of how good and how fun it was for so long, watching it die felt like visiting a deteriorating grandparent, every time it's something new and yet somehow worse. TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Sep 10, 2019 |
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Sep 10, 2019 04:40
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Shinmai Fukei Kiruko-san was a fairly average gag manga about a super cop getting sent to a rural police department. It was fairly popular in Japan initially IIRC but got canceled after 3 volumes, and was then picked back up again by another magazine... and canceled after 4 chapters.
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Sep 10, 2019 09:11
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Paracelsus posted:Don't know if it's due to axing or just natural end of the story, but Saotome Senshu is ending in 4 chapters. saotome feels natural. the relationship/world progression has been really steady.
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Oct 3, 2019 07:33
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C.M. Kruger posted:Shinmai Fukei Kiruko-san was a fairly average gag manga about a super cop getting sent to a rural police department. It was fairly popular in Japan initially IIRC but got canceled after 3 volumes, and was then picked back up again by another magazine... and canceled after 4 chapters. Aside from Bleach this was the saltiest I had ever loving been about Jump cancelling a thing. Not that Kiruko was the most amazing manga ever, but I enjoyed it a decent amount and liked her a lot enough to keep reading and them nixing it that quickly pissed me the gently caress off. Does anyone know what the hell happened to Reborn and why that manga spiraled into what it did when it started as a fairly subdued gag manga and then became every shonen manga with a non-ending?
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Oct 5, 2019 05:31
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Captain Baal posted:Does anyone know what the hell happened to Reborn and why that manga spiraled into what it did when it started as a fairly subdued gag manga and then became every shonen manga with a non-ending? I can't say for sure but my guess is that Akira Amano just isn't a very good writer. Reborn had an issue where every arc started strong and then had a deus ex machina ending that never felt earned, so it was hardly a surprise that the very ending of the manga was the same. I don't think executive meddling had much if anything to do with that.
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Oct 5, 2019 15:30
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Blaze Dragon posted:I can't say for sure but my guess is that Akira Amano just isn't a very good writer. Reborn had an issue where every arc started strong and then had a deus ex machina ending that never felt earned, so it was hardly a surprise that the very ending of the manga was the same. I don't think executive meddling had much if anything to do with that. A tale of two faces:   Akane  ing at a certain enforcer's freshness  She should do more character designs for shows and games.
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Oct 5, 2019 15:37
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The Sandman posted:After all these years I'm still a bit pissed about Mx0. I am right there with you, but in a strange way I am almost glad that it remains a "could have been" and I remember it fondly. I am pretty sure if I re-read it now, it wouldnt seem as good as it did when I first read it in my early 20s...
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Oct 5, 2019 17:02
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I remember Golem Hearts getting a hilariously rushed ending where the "big bad" of the series was introduced in the second to last chapter and then was promptly defeated in the last chapter.
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Oct 5, 2019 17:41
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Endorph posted:The funny part of DBZ is that the whole android saga rotating door of villains thing wasn't even because of his *actual* editor. His previous editor just called him up to shittalk each villain he came up with and Toriyama acquiesced because that man had put the fear of god in him even if he had no power over him anymore. It's wild to think of those top names in manga like Toriyama and Oda applying feedback from editors, whether they be current or past. I guess overall getting second opinions on work can help out a lot even when you're at that level, and when you're churning out 17 or so pages of both art and story week after week it's easy to see even the legends having the potential to have some major problems slip through the cracks if left to their own devices. As a real lazy person it always blows my mind thinking of mangakas putting out work that's creatively demanding on both the physical drawing and mental creativity/writing fronts.
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Oct 6, 2019 10:53
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So after reading this thread I read Gal Cleaning, I mean it was only like 12 chapters and most of the pages were panty shots and a couple were cleaning tips. But boy it gets really hosed up in the las couple of chapters holy poo poo.
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Oct 6, 2019 15:09
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why did you decide to read the rape manga if you already knew what's the deal with it from reading this thread im not accusing you of anything just sounds like a waste of time
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Oct 6, 2019 15:33
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All I remember about Bleach these days is this one segment from the anime where the big burly guy is running at an important dude and it's supposed to be a big clash but it just turns into like a 10-minute long inner monologue/flashback about his past over why he's friends with Ichigo and poo poo. poo poo's been misremembered and exaggerated in my head so much I have no idea how long it even is.
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Oct 6, 2019 15:50
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DanZX posted:So after reading this thread I read Gal Cleaning, I mean it was only like 12 chapters and most of the pages were panty shots and a couple were cleaning tips. I get the impression that the author was genuinely acting with malice or something. Like he clearly consciously attempts to make things drastically more absurd in the last few chapters, with the "panty shots minus the panties" stuff immediately preceding the "introducing new character and backflashing to them being raped" part. I wonder if they notified him about the cancellation and he just lost his poo poo (though that still calls into question how it even got published). FiftySeven posted:I am right there with you, but in a strange way I am almost glad that it remains a "could have been" and I remember it fondly. It's basically "pretty decent," but some people talk about it like it could have been like HxH or something which is kinda nonsense.
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Oct 6, 2019 20:28
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Argas posted:All I remember about Bleach these days is this one segment from the anime where the big burly guy is running at an important dude and it's supposed to be a big clash but it just turns into like a 10-minute long inner monologue/flashback about his past over why he's friends with Ichigo and poo poo. poo poo's been misremembered and exaggerated in my head so much I have no idea how long it even is. 
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Oct 6, 2019 20:34
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