|
What the gently caress is a "moderate independent" voter? Where is this unicorn prancing along the American Great Plains of wheat?
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 13:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 03:37 |
|
|
TulliusCicero posted:What the gently caress is a "moderate independent" voter? Where is this unicorn prancing along the American Great Plains of wheat? The only people who matter, according to democratic leadership. They're fine with change, as long as their taxes dont go up, their property values continue to increase, and their stock portfolio keeps going up as well.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 14:03
|
|
|
Wicked Them Beats posted:It's explicitly a contest, though. Didn’t she finally advocate for single payer in her interview with Ady Barkan just a couple of days ago?
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 14:21
|
|
|
ihatepants posted:Didn’t she finally advocate for single payer in her interview with Ady Barkan just a couple of days ago? You wouldn’t get the impression of a commitment from what’s given in this article, and if her idea of single-payer is the plan posted on her site that vaguely promises as much while leaving mental healthcare to private wolves, the answer is a resounding ‘no’.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 14:28
|
|
|
ihatepants posted:Didn’t she finally advocate for single payer in her interview with Ady Barkan just a couple of days ago? I mean, i've been burned before with Kamala's "signed onto the M4A bill in the senate", but I think Warren has explicitly stated her support for the M4A bill in the senate right now. She doesn't have her own plan, it's the Bernie bill.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 14:28
|
|
|
I'm seeing a lot of people, and not just Bernie supporters, expressing frustration with how the mainstream media keeps trying to gloss over Biden's obvious issues.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 14:42
|
|
|
Chilichimp posted:I mean, i've been burned before with Kamala's "signed onto the M4A bill in the senate", but I think Warren has explicitly stated her support for the M4A bill in the senate right now. She doesn't have her own plan, it's the Bernie bill. This. She could renege, but she hasn't been playing word games about what she's supporting, or claiming to support, or however you want to take it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 14:43
|
|
|
Office Pig posted:You wouldn’t get the impression of a commitment from what’s given in this article, and if her idea of single-payer is the plan posted on her site that vaguely promises as much while leaving mental healthcare to private wolves, the answer is a resounding ‘no’. I guess it depends on how you interpret her site. The section on mental health seems like it’s completely separate and is only making a bullet point about the Behavioral Health Coverage Transparency Act addressing mental health coverage now while we have to deal with the ACA. As if her site just listed down all the topics related to healthcare that she also had a hand in and is mentioned there only to provide more background as to what she has fought for with regards to healthcare. Because it directly contradicts what it said in the main section discussing Medicare For All: quote:Elizabeth supports Medicare for All, which would provide all Americans with a public health care program. Medicare for All is the best way to give every single person in this country a guarantee of high-quality health care. Everybody is covered. Nobody goes broke because of a medical bill. No more fighting with insurance companies. I guess the problem is that the lady who keeps saying “I have a plan for that” has not actually put out an official plan. The site isn’t an official plan, it’s just talking about her views and history about the topic of healthcare. It does seem like, on the surface, she supports Bernie’s version of Medicare For All, but a part of me also has doubts that she will stick with it and will possibly pivot away from it eventually because she doesn’t outright say the words herself and does kind of leave it up to interpretation.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 14:52
|
|
|
bowser posted:I'm seeing a lot of people, and not just Bernie supporters, expressing frustration with how the mainstream media keeps trying to gloss over Biden's obvious issues. Yeah my parents were “I’d rather have someone else but he’s got the best chance” to “how is he still running?” In the past month, but they’re basically single issue voters with climate change so they pay attention but aren’t super tuned in.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 14:53
|
|
|
i hope everyone remembered to turn their phonograph on before going to bed last night, to hear words
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 14:55
|
|
|
Yeah that debate wasn't super good or interesting despite the moderators getting in some good questions. Harris and Butt are probs confirmed dead after that; their campaigns are leaking people and this won't to anything to staunch the bleeding. Castro probably solidified himself as most likely VP candidate. Bernie needs to stop refusing to abolish the filibuster what the gently caress. It's an antidemocratic garbage system and should be removed on principle.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 15:10
|
|
|
The media this morning has their heads in the sand, Biden was clearly the best!
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 15:12
|
|
|
AsInHowe posted:i hope everyone remembered to turn their phonograph on before going to bed last night, to hear words I’m looking at you, black people.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 15:16
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:It's real interesting that the pundits are roasting Castro for attacking Biden's age, even though that's not what he said at all. The fact that they jumped straight to the conclusion that it was an age jab suggests that they feel that Biden's very vulnerable in that regard, and were waiting in the wings with pre-written decorum responses for someone to take aim at it. It's exactly the same situation as when that one comedian made fun of Shuckabee's eyeshadow.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 15:17
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/tysonbrody/status/1172517558983020548
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 15:31
|
|
|
Office Pig posted:You wouldn’t get the impression of a commitment from what’s given in this article, and if her idea of single-payer is the plan posted on her site that vaguely promises as much while leaving mental healthcare to private wolves, the answer is a resounding ‘no’. That is just another bill that's currently in the Senate that she also supports. ihatepants posted:the Behavioral Health Coverage Transparency Act addressing mental health coverage now while we have to deal with the ACA. Chilichimp fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Sep 13, 2019 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 15:38
|
|
|
Meatball posted:The only people who matter, according to democratic leadership. They're fine with change, as long as their taxes dont go up, their property values continue to increase, and their stock portfolio keeps going up as well. to expand on this they are relatively wealthy liberals who are ok with queer folks and think they're very not-racist but are unwilling to contribute to anything that would actually help alleviate the problem of race and income disparity in the US, e.g. paying higher property taxes to better fund public education.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 15:41
|
|
|
 SKULL.GIF posted:It's exactly the same situation as when that one comedian made fun of Shuckabee's eyeshadow. It wasn't even that, she was complimenting Shucks' eyeshadow while calling her a liar. The media... lied.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 15:44
|
|
|
my bony fealty posted:to expand on this they are relatively wealthy liberals who are ok with queer folks and think they're very not-racist but are unwilling to contribute to anything that would actually help alleviate the problem of race and income disparity in the US, e.g. paying higher property taxes to better fund public education. Ever wonder why they are okay with queer people, the group that includes white people?
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 15:48
|
|
|
AsInHowe posted:Ever wonder why they are okay with queer people, the group that includes white people? I dunno I'm curious as to what you would say about it though? In a hypothetical scenario where, say, their property taxes would be raised to fund shelters and resources for underprivileged LGBTQ youth - they would not be ok with that either. "Don't touch my money!" is really the core of the moderate independent. NIMBY as an identity.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 15:53
|
|
|
I really wish we were having the version of this primary where Joe Biden didn't run. Every time I see him on camera I get increasingly worried about his odds in the general election. At the start of the year I was on board with the idea that Biden was probably "the most electable" even if I disagreed that electability is what we should be going for in a general, but now I think he's actually the least electable and may be the only candidate on that stage who I feel will decisively lose to Trump. Every answer he delivers is like a car driving on a bumpy road. Unfortunately I don't think he's going to get caught with any kind of "gotcha" moment in these debates, he's still good at avoiding direct answers to questions and obfuscating his past actions. His current supporters aren't going to care that Biden made racially ignorant comments or participated in Obama's large-scale deportation of immigrants. Decorum will protect him from direct attacks about his fitness to run and while it's possible he could brain fart himself into a really bad moment on stage I don't think "record players" is gonna do it. Biden's presence is making these debates worse. The debate stage is already too crowded (and it's crazy to me that the next debate will have even more candidates qualifying) but I think this wouldn't be as much of a problem without Biden sucking up most of the oxygen. Sanders, Warren, Harris, Buttigeig, Yang, and even O'Rourke all have elements that are appealing to voters, and we could be having some real conversations comparing and contrasting them, but half of these candidates are dead in the water simply because Biden is taking their potential support base by default. So most of them are stuck either taking shots at Biden while he just blusters and denies his way past tough questions, or taking shots at Sanders/Warren and pissing off their progressive base. I have gone back and forth on whether it's good for Bernie or not that there are so many candidates in the race, but I'll at least say that it's good that two of the top three are Bernie and Warren, because that means there are at least 30-40% of the primary electorate that wants progressive policies, and those voters are unlikely to defect to other candidates. So there is a winning coalition for Sanders, they're holding firm, and I think Dems are a lot more likely to switch to supporting one of Sanders/Warren than their supporters are to switch to Biden or another centrist. I do think both of their positions would be improved without Biden sucking up the "default" voter, they would be better off if those supporters were split among Harris, Buttigeig, and Booker instead. I am still a Bernie >>>> Warren voter and this debate didn't really change that, both of them did fine. Bernie sounded hoarse to start but his voice seemed to improve as the night went on, although I felt he wasn't given enough speaking time after the conversation moved away from healthcare. His debate answers have improved a lot from the first and second debates and he's gotten much better at hitting the 45 second timings with strong statements. I think he does need a better answer on questions about "socialism" and may need to give a more direct explanation of what it means to be a democratic socialist. I'm not as hard up on Warren as others are in this thread, I don't trust her nearly as much as Sanders but as far as I'm concerned she is still more ally than enemy and I'm pleased that she has chosen not to separate herself too much from Sanders. I thought Yang did well, is at least rhetorically an ally to Sanders (for now) and occasionally frames his answers in ways I think would be persuasive to the unconverted. For example I think his way of framing M4A as good for businesses too is a smart approach that could win people over. But imo the guy who was the clear "best of the rest" for me was actually Beto, who after the El Paso shooting seems to have found a real reason to run, and had some other good moments besides. His answer to the question of racial inequality and reparations was super strong and it may have been the first time anything about him has ever impressed me. The mainstream media is horrible as always but I was still astounded to hear serious political analysts say things like Klobuchar had a good night. Maybe if they had the TV muted? I cannot understand how she is still qualifying for debates, I can't remember anything she said beyond she should be president because she's from the Midwest. Booker and Castro had their moments and I don't want to slam Castro too much since he went hard on Biden, but they're both just taking up space and time onstage that would be better used by other candidates. Which speaking of, I was really surprised by how low impact Harris and Buttigeig were last night, especially considering their place in the race. Neither of them seem to have any idea of how to break out into the top three. At this point I'm not sure why they are still running or what they think their path to victory is beyond Biden having a health crisis. The Ninth Layer fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Sep 13, 2019 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:12
|
|
|
Ague Proof posted:It wasn't even that, she was complimenting Shucks' eyeshadow while calling her a liar. The media... lied. Her eyes look weird. It's easy to see how people misconstrued it as shade.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:18
|
|
|
I think a strong showing by Warren/Sanders in Iowa will assuage a lot of worries. People say all the time that they like Warren but they’re worried about her electability or whatever. Whether they’re right or not, they said the same things about Obama up until he won Iowa
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:20
|
|
|
Is Biden even leading the polls any more? I thought the last few in the early primary states had him, Warren, and Sanders basically deadlocked?
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:21
|
|
|
Every day is a day closer to Biden's "support" collapsing. Last night was not good for him. What the gently caress
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:25
|
|
|
Ginette Reno posted:Is Biden even leading the polls any more? I thought the last few in the early primary states had him, Warren, and Sanders basically deadlocked? at the rate theyre trending the pundits are going to have to start gaslighting on the poll numbers, like adding previous poll numbers together to have a score of the past few months obfuscating Bidens meteoric crash.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:25
|
|
|
So in addition to the weird, mush-brained delivery, it turns out that Biden's "record player" comments were also wrong on substance: https://twitter.com/RottenInDenmark/status/1172519465138835456 Whole thread is worth a read.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:29
|
|
|
Faustian Bargain posted:Every day is a day closer to Biden's "support" collapsing. Last night was not good for him. Dude looks like he was killed by Jack Nicholson's Joker.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:30
|
|
|
Favorite part of the night was definitely Beto and gently caress Yes We're Coming To Take Yours Guns Away From You and the crowd visibly going ape-poo poo. I remember so clearly 2007 and 2008 where the "gun issue" was dead, buried, utterly a lost cause. What a difference.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:30
|
|
|
Chilichimp posted:Dude looks like he was killed by Jack Nicholson's Joker.  "Love that Biden"
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:36
|
|
|
I can’t tell if average people are getting frustrated with the propaganda media or if they are still too busy/stressed with their difficult lives to be able to notice. Even some otherwise relatively informed people I know are still kind of barely registering the blatant messaging.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:37
|
|
|
Ginette Reno posted:Is Biden even leading the polls any more? I thought the last few in the early primary states had him, Warren, and Sanders basically deadlocked? Biden has a stranglehold on machine dems, especially the Black Church. That's why Biden is crushing everybody in SC. Warren/Sanders/Biden are in a dead heat in whiter states like NH. Biden: Machine dems (high likelihood of voting in primaries) and low information voters (lower likelihood of voting during primaries) Warren: White Suburbanites (high likelihood of voting in primaries) Sanders: Youth (low likelihood of voting in primaries), white urbanites (wildcard!), working poor that Bernie has directly benefited like Walmart and Amazon people (low likelihood of voting in primaries) So we'll see which coalition wins. As noted, Biden benefits most by depressing voter turnout, so expect a lot of negativity backed by billionaires. Sanders thrives on passion, which given his health is tricky (I'm loving the Brezhnev cosplay but it may not connect with voters). Warren is targeting a specific, high turnout demographic but there isn't a lot of appeal outside that narrow band.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:37
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:You see if all the candidates are real nice and don't say anything bad about each other then Trump and the GOP will be forced to do the same in the General Election. Now where's my DNC paycheck? Jennifer Rubin is competing with Copmala for the fascist democrat alternative to trump
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:39
|
|
|
Ginette Reno posted:Is Biden even leading the polls any more? I thought the last few in the early primary states had him, Warren, and Sanders basically deadlocked? He's still leading in the national polls, but is only leading South Carolina in the early states. We're currently looking at Bernie and Warren likely doing some variation of 1st and 2nd in Iowa, New Hampshire, and Nevada while Biden is holding a large lead in South Carolina.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:40
|
|
|
The extent of the “low-expectations” game the liberal media is playing with Biden makes it seem, in comparison, like they thought W and Trump were the most brilliant policy experts improvisational orators of all time. Three times in a row, I turn on the TV or radio or go to a news site and see “BIDEN SOLID IN DEBATE (actually hosed up a lot but didn’t disintegrate or pull off a Biden mask to reveal he is Sarah Palin)”. It’s maddening. There is a historical trend where media coverage has a huge effect on viewers’ impressions of a debate. I have to hope that that is not the case this time, people see Biden for what he is, and his numbers continue to fall. E: the that makes it really crazy is that we know Biden used to be a decent debater, so by treating him with kid gloves they’re basically acknowledging his cognitive decline. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Sep 13, 2019 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:40
|
|
|
Might just want to invest those hopes in people who don't treat TV news as gospel.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:42
|
|
|
Angry_Ed posted:
New and improved Biden products!
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:42
|
|
|
Mellow Seas posted:There is a historical trend where media coverage has a huge effect on viewers’ impressions of a debate. I have to hope that that is not the case this time, people see Biden for what he is, and his numbers continue to fall. So far though, the debates haven't really affected the race long term. Certain candidates have had bumps in the polls after a debate only to level back off to where they were. This happened with Kamala after the first debate. Warren's relative rise in the polls doesn't really seem to be linked to any debate performance or anything, so slow and steady wins the race. I don't think these debates will really matter in the long run.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:46
|
|
|
Biden has largely been saved by having 10 people on the stage sucking up time. Hopefully now that the October debate is two nights with 5-6 candidates his meltdown will be more clear.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 16:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 03:37 |
|
|
Gyges posted:Biden has largely been saved by having 10 people on the stage sucking up time. Hopefully now that the October debate is two nights with 5-6 candidates his meltdown will be more clear. They’ll put him with Bennett, Bullock, Daly and Steyer.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 17:00
|
|