|
these fuckers sure love just erasing all the nonwhite folks who support Bernie
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 01:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 02:22 |
|
|
John Wick of Dogs posted:I am sad nobody likes my idea of relocating them to the Alaska/Canada border What did Alaska or Canada ever do to you?
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 01:45
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:Tell me more about the human right to work as a concentration camp guard. They are the same as everyone else's otherwise they wouldn't be "human rights" The moment you start making exceptions for people you don't like you open the door to the same demonization and dehumanization that the right uses to justify poo poo like having concentration camps and if history has shown us anything it's that the powerful are not the one's who tend to end up the victims of such targeted exceptions but rather the powerless, the oppressed and the very people who are targeted by fascists in the first place. Also to be clear a concentration camp is still a concentration camp even if you call it a reeducation camp. Hold those who are responsible for the crimes responsible for their actions but don't engage in collective punishment based on caste, class or association, if for no other reason than to make it easier to reintegrate the misguided back into civil society. If you permanently ostracize all of ICE you create a permanent angry hardened opposition who will be easily radicalized. And yeah I'm fully down with sweeping changes to the mission and standards of those organizations to the point where the names would have to be changed to reflect said new mission, make the mission be rescue and resettlement where the border patrol would actually be out rescuing people who were lost in the desert and facilitating easy movement in and out of the country including assisting refuges and other potential immigrants to necessary resources and channels to navigate our system and support the necessary purge of those existing employees who are unable to adapt their behavior and attitudes towards that new mission.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 01:46
|
|
|
Skex posted:They are the same as everyone else's otherwise they wouldn't be "human rights" Amazing. Literally arguing that you can't be against fake unions for concentration camp guards or you're just as bad as them. Peak both sidesism has been achieved. Electric Bugaloo posted:Okay- first off, don't adopt that loving language with us. No, I'm just against crippling oneself out of some idiotic sense of decorum. That's the poison that reduces any even vaguely leftist movement to ineffectiveness, because if you just let the right gently caress around as they like and never adopt hardball tactics against them they will literally never stop. And why would they? They get to do all that poo poo consequence free and keep on winning.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 01:56
|
|
|
This was all started by someone with the clear concern troll of "we can't mass fire ICE agents, they signed a union contract! Do you hate unions????" Which of course ignores the reality that very likely whatever contract they have don't prevent the US government from shutting down ICE and firing them all. No other government union contract works like that. Luckily the Sanders administration is trying to make it so being jobless is a livable life so those ICE agents won't be forgotten.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:00
|
|
|
I just gotta address this human rights concern trolling because it's real dumb. The right to unionize is part of workers' rights, which are human rights that, as the name suggests, apply to workers. But cops and concentration camp guards aren't workers, hence they don't have any right to a union. Real simple if you know any actual socialist theory. E: Where liberals go wrong is that they conflate workers with employees, which is real stupid if you think about it even medium-hard. Technically management is made up of employees yet they represent and work for diametrically opposed interests to the workers, which should be a clear enough example for anyone to get the point. Cerebral Bore fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jan 31, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:03
|
|
|
Saying that firing tens of thousands of union employees immediately upon inauguration would be a monumentally idiotic PR fuckup isn't a concern troll you absolute loving moron
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:06
|
|
|
If Bernie even tries to destroy ICE I'm gonna cancel his rear end
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:08
|
|
|
oxsnard posted:Saying that firing tens of thousands of union employees immediately upon inauguration would be a monumentally idiotic PR fuckup isn't a concern troll you absolute loving moron Well sure now that the goal posts have changed to "firing ICE agents would be a bad PR move" from "firing ICE agents would deprive them of their human rights" it sounds less like a concern troll.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:09
|
|
|
oxsnard posted:Saying that firing tens of thousands of union employees immediately upon inauguration would be a monumentally idiotic PR fuckup isn't a concern troll you absolute loving moron Why exactly would firing the concentration camp guards be a PR disaster if you've just won an election promising to do that? Your objection makes absolutely zero sense on any level.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:09
|
|
|
oxsnard posted:Saying that firing tens of thousands of union employees immediately upon inauguration would be a monumentally idiotic PR fuckup isn't a concern troll you absolute loving moron It would also guarantee at least the first year of his presidency is consumed with a legal battle with the ICE union.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:09
|
|
|
People are all for destroying ICE until they realize what that actually entails - putting thousands of hard-working Americans out of a job.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:10
|
|
|
Ice is represented by the AFGE which is part of the AFL-CIO so calling the AFGE a cop union is a good way to get the entire federal bureaucracy mad at a Sanders administration.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:13
|
|
|
Sending every member of the AFGE to re-education camps would be a colossal PR fuckup and if Bernie doesn't understand that then he's the stupidest motherfucker running.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:15
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:It would also guarantee at least the first year of his presidency is consumed with a legal battle with the ICE union. People keep saying that but its really an unsupported assertion. For example, the 2000 ICE contract states that a Reduction-In-Force would only require 10-days advanced notice to the union under the contract. There are other requirements about giving them first dibs on jobs at other agencies etc, but it would be completely within the contract to conduct mass layouts. https://www.afge.org/globalassets/documents/cbas/c118---ice-contract.pdf quote:Reduction-in-Force. A reduction-in-force means the release of employees from their competitive level by separation, demotion, furlough for more than thirty (30) days, or reassignment requiring displacement; when lack of work or shortage of funds, reorganization, insufficient personnel ceiling, reclassification due to change in duties, or the need to replace a person exercising reemployment or restoration rights requires the Service to release the employee. So again, I haven't seen any proof that mass reduction in ICE agents would have to be a violation of workers rights. edit found the most recent contract where the language is even clearer: quote:Nothing in this Agreement shall affect the authority of any management official of the Agency: The union contract in no way prevents mass layouts at ICE. Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Jan 31, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:17
|
|
|
But in election news, Biden has lost his goddamn mind https://twitter.com/BoKnowsNews/status/1223050275688271875?s=20
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:19
|
|
|
As mentioned multiple times you don't even have to fire anyone, yet for some reason people seem real passionate to protect the imagined rights of concentration camp guards or otherwise have big concerns about doing the right thing. This, too, is a kind of liberalism.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:21
|
|
|
Bernie is not going to mass layoff government employees in any agency. Even reductions to the military would probably be handled via attrition, letting people retire out while reducing recruitment. He is not the leftist firebrand some of you might hope for, he just seems like one because his opponents are all right-wing monsters. He will clean house at the top but the rank and file will be left up to the discretion of his cabinet and their direct reports. Maybe in an ideal world every ICE officer gets fired or reassigned or brought up on charges and they all get replaced with social workers but Bernie will not be doing that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:28
|
|
|
You guys aren't acting like 80% of ICE wouldn't quit when they found out they weren't allowed to abuse immigrants anymore
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:29
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:People keep saying that but its really an unsupported assertion. For example, the 2000 ICE contract states that a Reduction-In-Force would only require 10-days advanced notice to the union under the contract. There are other requirements about giving them first dibs on jobs at other agencies etc, but it would be completely within the contract to conduct mass layouts. It's 10 days notice on any plans for reduction in force but you need to add 60 for the actual reduction in force quote:ADVANCE NOTICE. Except in the case of furloughs due to unforeseeable circumstances beyond the control of the Service ,the Service agrees to provide affected employees as much advance notice of reduction-in-force as is administratively possible but in no case will such notice be less than sixty(60) calendar days And the employment and training clauses would essentially give the former ICE employees first shot at any position within DHS/DOJ, basically on par with Veterans priority hiring.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:36
|
|
|
Skex posted:They are the same as everyone else's otherwise they wouldn't be "human rights" skex. friend. the way I can tell you do not believe this is because there has -never- been a human right you were not willing to trade away for the hope Mitch McConnell might give you a pat on the head and a "good boy" for doing so. we have your expressed opinion on abortion (the dems should be willing to compromise on it) we have your opinion on gay marriage (dems should be willing to compromise on it), we have your opinion on concentration camps (it's okay dems unconditionally funded them) and we have your opinion on whether left-wingers should ever even -try- to confront the right on a matter of principle (no, Dr. King should not have marched, it might have set off white suburbanites' fight-or-flight reflex). but bring up the concentration camp guards losing their jobs and suddenly, you discover that there are some principles dems must hold as absolute, in the name of preserving basic human dignity. at least pretend to some consistency, you spineless sadsack. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:36
|
|
|
zimbomonkey posted:You guys aren't acting like 80% of ICE wouldn't quit when they found out they weren't allowed to abuse immigrants anymore
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:39
|
|
|
We like to call it self-deportation.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:44
|
|
|
Yeah, from everything we've heard, attrition would probably be fast. Being in ICE is already for dead-enders or true believers. Stop ICE raids and put a leash on how big of dicks they can be at checkpoints and the fun stops really quick. How many people stick with the agency before looking to be a deputy in some county where they can at least gently caress with skateboarders or weed dealers? Plus we do need some number of people to physically exist at the crossings for basic infrastructure in whatever new not-ICE is.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:44
|
|
|
Whatever, put every officer in some kind of make-work non-job until they resign. I'm more concerned about what you do about the culture in USCIS. They actually serve a potentially good function, but are also riddled with fascist lawyers, probably more than ever now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:46
|
|
|
Flip Yr Wig posted:Whatever, put every officer in some kind of make-work non-job until they resign. this usually comes down to leadership and directives from the top so it would be dependent on who bernie would have as director of the agency.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:52
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:But in election news, Biden has lost his goddamn mind Jesus, Biden hates the press drat near as much as Trump ever has.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:52
|
|
|
You're Malarkey News.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:55
|
|
|
Great, so firing all of ICE in ~70 days is perfectly legal and violates nobody’s rights. Because word on paper or something. I dunno. While I respect people’s rights to organize, I do not respect their right to organize for the purpose of oppression. You cannot separate the means from the ends.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:55
|
|
|
Is there a real reason why Americans can’t do normal length election cycles? I think national sanity would improve tenfold if this poo poo only took a couple of months.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:57
|
|
|
ARACHTION posted:Is there a real reason why Americans can’t do normal length election cycles? I think national sanity would improve tenfold if this poo poo only took a couple of months. Because a lot of very influential people make a lot of money doing it this way, and they spend some of that money to make sure we keep doing it this way.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 02:59
|
|
|
ARACHTION posted:Is there a real reason why Americans can’t do normal length election cycles? I think national sanity would improve tenfold if this poo poo only took a couple of months. Its better for the consultant class and the political media. They both benefit from pushing narratives that start every cycle earlier
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 03:00
|
|
|
Cpt_Obvious posted:Great, so firing all of ICE in ~70 days is perfectly legal and violates nobody’s rights. Because word on paper or something. I dunno. It....it's you. I knew you'd come. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 03:01
|
|
|
Cpt_Obvious posted:Great, so firing all of ICE in ~70 days is perfectly legal and violates nobody’s rights. Because word on paper or something. I dunno. To be specific the government would have to give them first shot at any open jobs within DHS/DOJ and offer retraining if their skillset is so specific that it can't apply anywhere else. My guess is you would see lots of them go into Customs and border protection, mostly so they can preserve their government benefits. To do an investigation into abuses you would need a special investigative/oversight committee if you don't want DHS's Inspector General doing it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 03:01
|
|
|
zimbomonkey posted:You guys aren't acting like 80% of ICE wouldn't quit when they found out they weren't allowed to abuse immigrants anymore Yeah but the point isn't just getting rid of the agency, it's also holding every single person in the agency accountable for their active involvement in a genocidal project. Letting them shuffle off to sign up with the local police force or whatever isn't exactly a positive alternative.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 03:02
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/IfNotNowOrg/status/1222888022292750336 The order of events is almost literally, "I will not actually do anything about this but I will wag my finger at them."
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 03:02
|
|
|
Cpt_Obvious posted:Great, so firing all of ICE in ~70 days is perfectly legal and violates nobody’s rights. Because word on paper or something. I dunno. organizing to end fascist government bureaus = organizing for the purpose of oppression 
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 03:03
|
|
|
LeeMajors posted:It....it's you. I knew you'd come. Wut? Bottom Liner posted:organizing to end fascist government bureaus = organizing for the purpose of oppression No, concentration camp guard unions organize for the purpose of oppression. Edit: You do realize I was the first person to suggest firing all of ICE as a workaround to being unable to dismantle it without congressional approval, right?
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 03:04
|
|
|
Wicked Them Beats posted:Because a lot of very influential people make a lot of money doing it this way, and they spend some of that money to make sure we keep doing it this way. This is what I figured. But did the media and consultants start this process by advising campaigns start earlier, or so party rules make it necessary to being earlier? Chicken or egg? In a max 50 day campaign, I felt like I was drowning in political adds. I can’t imagine how annoying it must be to be an Iowan.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 03:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 02:22 |
|
|
I spent about ten minutes digging through YangGang land and holy poo poo, they live in a terrifying and bizarre alternate reality. The less said the better.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2020 03:04
|
|
