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ryde posted:as an aside, I am legit upset about all the "well akshully" and "citation needed" responses in defense of Stallman, but also feel like I can't rant to tech friends I know because I worry that ill get the same from them. I dont think that says good things about myself or my complicity in the current tech culture rant at them anyway, if they argue on his side they aren’t your friends.
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Sep 18, 2019 19:00
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ryde posted:as an aside, I am legit upset about all the "well akshully" and "citation needed" responses in defense of Stallman, but also feel like I can't rant to tech friends I know because I worry that ill get the same from them. I dont think that says good things about myself or my complicity in the current tech culture I'd say it says more about your friends? 
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Sep 18, 2019 19:00
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rotor posted:giving away free software to startups is cool. It's great that the only thing worth money in 2019 is user data. I'm not mad at all that open source has driven the value of software to zero, I'm actually laughing. only software that customers can run on their own machines. 90% of the reason saas is a thing is because for some reason it's an acceptable way to make people pay for software.
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Sep 18, 2019 19:10
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Hexyflexy posted:It's cool, let's just monetise all science and maths. wow yeah that's exactly what selling software is. Monetizing math. I hadn't thought about it that way before. +1 insightful.
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Sep 18, 2019 19:10
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What timezone is rotor in anyways, is he sundowning or something?
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Sep 18, 2019 19:11
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Plorkyeran posted:only software that customers can run on their own machines. 90% of the reason saas is a thing is because for some reason it's an acceptable way to make people pay for software. I disagree, there's also: deployment and reduced IT costs. Saas is more about customer convenience, but I don't want to make a big CoC thing about it.
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Sep 18, 2019 19:13
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rotor posted:giving away free software to startups is cool. It's great that the only thing worth money in 2019 is user data. I'm not mad at all that open source has driven the value of software to zero, I'm actually laughing. I still get paid enough to produce it though :thinking:
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Sep 18, 2019 19:14
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Schadenboner posted:What timezone is rotor in anyways, is he sundowning or something? I'm mad mad mad about people doing volunteer work for startups
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Sep 18, 2019 19:14
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gonadic io posted:I still get paid enough Do you?
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Sep 18, 2019 19:14
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Plorkyeran posted:only software that customers can run on their own machines. 90% of the reason saas is a thing is because for some reason it's an acceptable way to make people pay for software. the reason is computer janitoring sucks rear end and it’s worth almost any price to get someone else to do it for you
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Sep 18, 2019 19:15
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I just want to say that rms, esr, and linus are dicks that deserve to be reprimanded / shredded in a wood chipper and also mention that it’s getting very GBS in this thread
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Sep 18, 2019 19:16
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The Management posted:I just want to say that rms, esr, and linus are dicks that deserve to be reprimanded / shredded in a wood chipper and also mention that it’s getting very GBS in this thread Linus is at least, like, a working programmer? E: What did he do, was he just a general rear end in a top hat or a specific one? Is this about the Intel thing?
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Sep 18, 2019 19:17
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The Management posted:I just want to say that rms, esr, and linus are dicks that deserve to be reprimanded / shredded in a wood chipper and also mention that it’s getting very GBS in this thread yeah now that your here!!!!
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Sep 18, 2019 19:18
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rotor posted:yeah now that your here!!!! this is The Management right now: 
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Sep 18, 2019 19:19
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rotor posted:Do you? Less than my labour is worth of course but also more than any of my non programmer peers. Except maybe 1 or 2 canary wharf types.
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Sep 18, 2019 19:21
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gonadic io posted:I still get paid enough to produce it though :thinking: imagine the ROI that a business gets out of your work versus what /you/ get out of your work, and how that ratio has changed over time imagine there's no wage disparity / it's easy if you try
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Sep 18, 2019 19:21
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gonadic io posted:Less than my labour is worth of course So no. I'm glad we had this talk.
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Sep 18, 2019 19:22
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how much can a software even cost? $10?
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Sep 18, 2019 19:23
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psiox posted:imagine the ROI that a business gets out of your work versus what /you/ get out of your work, and how that ratio has changed over time the trick is to work for a company that doesn't make any money
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Sep 18, 2019 19:26
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Nomnom Cookie posted:the reason is computer janitoring sucks rear end and it’s worth almost any price to get someone else to do it for you computer janitoring sucks but i've literally had conversations about how to turn a thing that doesn't inherently need a server component at all into something that does specifically so that we could justify charging money for it.
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Sep 18, 2019 19:29
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Endless Mike posted:how much can a software even cost? $10?
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Sep 18, 2019 19:35
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qirex posted:there's always money in the support contract
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Sep 18, 2019 19:35
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hopefully eventually money will be a thing of the past what's the difference between getting a bunch of stuff at a store and walking out, vs getting the exact same stuff at the store and paying for it, except wasting a bunch of time and resources in support of something that is essentially imaginary and pointless oh whoops, no money guess you die now lol, that doesn't seem quite right
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Sep 18, 2019 19:39
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Broken Machine posted:hopefully eventually money will be a thing of the past one way makes the rich get richer and the other doesn't, hope that clears it up for you
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Sep 18, 2019 19:42
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rotor posted:So no. I'm glad we had this talk. So your take is that if you cannot pay for expensive SW you should just gently caress off and die? Sorry kid, if you are too poor to afford paying for MS Office, you are too poor to write documents.
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Sep 18, 2019 19:45
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Xarn posted:So your take is that if you cannot pay for expensive SW you should just gently caress off and die? Sorry kid, if you are too poor to afford paying for MS Office, you are too poor to write documents. i think the point was that companies don't pay what people are worth, open source arguably helps subsidize that reality, and that's the biggest problem Nomnom Cookie posted:one way makes the rich get richer and the other doesn't, hope that clears it up for you
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Sep 18, 2019 19:47
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Xarn posted:So your take is that if you cannot pay for expensive SW you should just gently caress off and die? Sorry kid, if you are too poor to afford paying for MS Office, you are too poor to write documents. My take is that you should not be doing volunteer work for startups. If you want to give your work to your friends, go for it. If you want to release it to the world, release it under a license that doesn't allow people to use it commercially, because if they do they should loving pay you. If you want to release it to the world, maintain some control over it so it's not used by loving Palantir to put children in concentration camps.
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Sep 18, 2019 19:49
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this bullshit where you're too much of a chill bro to think about how your work could potentially be used for evil actually loving sucks
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Sep 18, 2019 19:50
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not like you personally, i don't even know you, I just mean the open sores community generally
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Sep 18, 2019 19:51
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I’ve seen code. I am very confident that programmers are not paid less than they are worth.
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Sep 18, 2019 19:53
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software wants to be free of the shackles of its oppressors, much like laborers
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Sep 18, 2019 20:09
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I get paid by my dumb company to write open source code and it doesn’t make any loving sense but I don’t care, it’s their money.
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Sep 18, 2019 20:11
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I tried contributing to a Linux once. what a cluster gently caress, not doing that again
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Sep 18, 2019 20:12
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rotor posted:this bullshit where you're too much of a chill bro to think about how your work could potentially be used for evil actually loving sucks I think you're having two different conversations at once. I have to pay a fuckload of attention to what the implications of the applied math I do for people are, and sometimes stop myself from doing it. On the other hand I feel a deep desire to make all other programmers redundant.
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Sep 18, 2019 20:15
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rotor is right, license your poo poo under agpl3
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Sep 18, 2019 20:17
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Sagebrush posted:a few times now i've related the anecdote my photojournalist friend told me about taking pictures of celebrities -- you keep the good ones, of course, but you also keep the bad ones where they look particularly angry or stupid or gruesome just in case there's a scandal and you need the article to have the right mood. given that the subject is rms, i cant tell if this is one of the good ones or one of the bad ones
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Sep 18, 2019 20:17
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Hexyflexy posted:I think you're having two different conversations at once. I have to pay a fuckload of attention to what the implications of the applied math I do for people are, and sometimes stop myself from doing it. When you release the product of your labors to the world how do you ensure that they are not used for evil? quote:On the other hand I feel a deep desire to make all other programmers redundant. well gently caress you too
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Sep 18, 2019 20:19
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Bloody posted:rotor is right, license your poo poo under agpl3
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Sep 18, 2019 20:20
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rotor posted:this bullshit where you're too much of a chill bro to think about how your work could potentially be used for evil actually loving sucks if palantir or the like wants to rip off your work, i don't think they're going to care how your software is licensed, they're going to rip you off because they're not good people and they can also though, most any software or tech good can be used for good or bad. advances in robotics will be applied to consumer and corporate use, whether good or bad rather just release it for free, that way anyone can use it and hopefully they at least leave your license notice there
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Sep 18, 2019 20:21
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if they want to clean room reimplement my library to avoid paying for a commercial license because it is agpl3 then they can fuckin go ahead and waste their time doing that, i don't care if they want to open themselves up to the liability of violating licensing then cool i think thats what the fsf is for?? like is your point that "well bad actors will be bad actors so theres no point in trying to do anything good"?
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Sep 18, 2019 20:23
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