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Nalesh posted:Woulda thought coin mining would be a more shelob thing, you know, since it's mainly used on the darkweb. Get out.
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Sep 22, 2019 03:26
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Materant posted:More seriously, it was an act of hubris comparable to drinking poison to build up immunity. Sure, you might get that immunity, but there's a far, far more likely chance you'll just end up dead and foaming at the mouth. It's also yet another illustration of how trying to use the enemy's tools against him is doomed to failure.
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Sep 22, 2019 05:39
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Ah, finally caught up to the new thread, nice to see you up to the sequel. Gameplay wise it's a great build up from the last game for the most part, although the ending sequence takes a little too long. Never actually finished it, maybe the LP will inspire me to go back, I got stuck on the version before they patched it down a bunch so maybe I could survive it now. REALLY appreciate all the quality of life upgrades though, like draining being how you heal automatically now and being able to traverse like a madman. And we haven't even scratched the surface of the awesomeness that the captains have in this one, though I'm delighted we already got to see the hype orc intro already. Lore-wise... yeah, this game breaks a BUNCH from Tolkien, to put it mildly. Not only did Minus Ithil getting attacked happen about a thousand years before the time period this game is in, it was around 400 years after the fall of the Black Gate (assuming the bit about "Mordor is left unguarded" in the timeline is supposed to be that, don't recall a specific breakdown of when it fell or for that matter if it actually fell or was just abandoned like "left unguarded" implies). About the only logic I've ever mentally come up with is these games seem to take more from the movies, so you could always pretend this is the movie timeline version of these events, certainly doesn't really contradict like it blatantly like it does the LOTR books. As for some of the more interesting lore breaks, I suppose I can at least say several of them fit thematically even if they don't work worth a drat with the books. Shelob turning into a Goth chick wasn't quite the horror mind destroying event for me like a lot of Tolkien purists I recall ranting about it (though I made jokes about "poison glands" a la a certain theory about XCom's Boob Snakes). Certainly her mother was more or less a Lovecraftian nightmare that happened to look like a giant spider rather than some actual arachnid creature, so Shelob having an alternate humanoid form isn't wholly unrealistic. Her behavior in the game is a little harder to square with the fact she was more like a scary monster that didn't even seem capable of more than animal cunning in the source material, dunno how you argue that one though I grant at least she's more interesting this way. As for the new Ring, Celebrimbor putting most of himself into it fits the rules for the One Ring which he was consciously or not probably trying to recreate (hence why the One's destruction took out Sauron, he had too much of himself into it) so it's rather fitting losing it gimps you of most of the awesome abilities you had by the end of the last game. And it's very on point that the results of making it immediately show it was a Really BAD Idea.
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Sep 22, 2019 08:32
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I don't think we've seen a hype orc yet.
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Sep 22, 2019 08:35
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We saw one in episode 3, I believe. It does the focus on one orc, the hunter guy - and then another one comes on and starts hyping him up, talking about how he's gonna kick Jade's butt.
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Sep 22, 2019 08:58
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I don't know if I should be happy or sad that jades playthrough isn't mirroring mine where pretty much every orc captain so far is mortally flammable.
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Sep 22, 2019 09:34
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Deadmeat5150 posted:I don't think we've seen a hype orc yet. No, there was a hype orc in the last episode.
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Sep 22, 2019 09:53
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I love the hype Orcs, they are also pretty decent shittalkers when it comes to dissing Talion.
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Sep 22, 2019 12:03
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LupusAter posted:One of the best things about the game's previews were the little hype videos for the various orc tribes, you had orcs looking scary/badass/ominous and then you had the Marauder video which was the best one of them all. Not only do the Marauder clan orcs have more, faster growing teeth than other orcs; they don't realize they're in the wrong franchise and achieve bling through sheer force of will. Neige fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Sep 22, 2019 |
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Sep 22, 2019 15:11
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bony tony posted:No, there was a hype orc in the last episode. Oh poo poo yeah there was.
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Sep 22, 2019 15:33
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The other thing about the undead duo chowing down on rat souls is they replace the plant-gathering as health pickups. I guess Talion's gotten too far away from the Black Gate to oregon trail it up anymore.
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Sep 22, 2019 17:24
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"Talion, why are you wasting your time finding and cooking earthbread when you could spend it trying to acquire the Palantiiiir?"
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Sep 22, 2019 17:41
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MadDogMike posted:Her behavior in the game is a little harder to square with the fact she was more like a scary monster that didn't even seem capable of more than animal cunning in the source material, dunno how you argue that one though I grant at least she's more interesting this way. She probably did not have anything to say to food. As the books make it clear that she is capable of speech. achtungnight posted:I think she’s going to be seriously diminished after this game, though. Probably enough that a couple hobbits could best her easily. Or even one hobbit, after she loses the element of surprise. The books make it pretty clear that Sam just got stupidly lucky. Shelob is completely immune to mundane weapons only cool magic stuff is capable of piercing her hide, so Sting was the only blade in miles capable of hurting her. And even then it requires a ton of strength to hit her hard enough for the blade to pierce her. When she corners Sam in the books she accidentally stabs herself with the blade, as her own strength was capable of driving it into her. Which causes her to retreat.
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Sep 22, 2019 18:05
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MonsterEnvy posted:When she corners Sam in the books she accidentally stabs herself with the blade, as her own strength was capable of driving it into her. Which causes her to retreat. Same thing as when you step on a lego.
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Sep 22, 2019 19:01
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Shelob had Mortal Weakness to Halflings.
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Sep 22, 2019 19:08
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One thing that's really interesting to me is how we so rarely (never?) hear Sauron actually say anything. It's been a long time since I've read the books or watched the movies- does he have any lines? We hear all about how glib and silver-tongued he is, and his corrupting influence is all over the place, but he's a very impersonal antagonist, if that makes any sense. And yet it works, and works well. That's really neat! ...now that I think about it, the Shadow of Mordor DLC had Sauron and elf-Dad trading threats fairly often. Maybe he was just chattier back in the day.
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Sep 22, 2019 20:00
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I think he was chattier when he had a tongue and wasn't a flaming eye in a tower.
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Sep 22, 2019 20:01
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At most I remember him going "I see you" to Frodo in the first LOTR movie when he's panicking in the Prancing Pony.
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Sep 22, 2019 20:02
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EggsAisle posted:One thing that's really interesting to me is how we so rarely (never?) hear Sauron actually say anything. It's been a long time since I've read the books or watched the movies- does he have any lines? We hear all about how glib and silver-tongued he is, and his corrupting influence is all over the place, but he's a very impersonal antagonist, if that makes any sense. And yet it works, and works well. That's really neat! I think even in the books he says nothing, except in the Appendix when he's taken captive by Ar-Pharazôn, he winds up talking his way into being his councilor, then talks him into assaulting the Undying Lands with some passive flattery along the lines of "great kings take what is their due." I always got the impression that during the LOTR book trilogy, Sauron had still not gained any physical form, or at least spent all this time hovering over his palantir watching everything. I guess it was like the internet of its day.
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Sep 22, 2019 20:56
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I have a question about the game. You mentioned having replayed it several times. I've been wanting to replay it, but the lack of multiple saves means that I really don't want to delete my 100% run of the game to replay it. Do you have a way to back up the save, or do you just nuke your game and start over?
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Sep 22, 2019 22:53
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Scruffpuff posted:I think even in the books he says nothing, except in the Appendix when he's taken captive by Ar-Pharazôn, he winds up talking his way into being his councilor, then talks him into assaulting the Undying Lands with some passive flattery along the lines of "great kings take what is their due." He apparently had a physical form again, but was much weaker, which means he did not want to leave his tower. Plus he had given up his ability to take on fairer forms which he put most of his being into the Ring.
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Sep 22, 2019 23:09
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MonsterEnvy posted:He apparently had a physical form again, but was much weaker, which means he did not want to leave his tower. Plus he had given up his ability to take on fairer forms which he put most of his being into the Ring. No, he lost the ability to take fair forms when he got dunked along with Numenor. He wasn't dumb enough to go with Ar-Pharazon to Valinor, but he wasn't smart enough to flee the collateral damage zone like Elendil & co.
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Sep 23, 2019 00:00
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Gothsheep posted:I have a question about the game. You mentioned having replayed it several times. I've been wanting to replay it, but the lack of multiple saves means that I really don't want to delete my 100% run of the game to replay it. Do you have a way to back up the save, or do you just nuke your game and start over? Sort of. You keep anything in the garrison, meaning captains you put there or any training orders you have. (Note: Certain captains cannot be put into the garrison. Though I'm not certain, I believe it applies to 'special' captains that the game wants to put a limit of one per game on. The ones I've noticed that for are currently spoilers, but putting captains into the garrison is a training order so just go through your favorites.) Ironically, any chests that you have also carry over, so you could do a couple online fort sieges, get level 60 or whatever chests and just open them on a new game to immediately have overpowered gear.
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Sep 23, 2019 00:42
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Drakenel posted:Ironically, any chests that you have also carry over, so you could do a couple online fort sieges, get level 60 or whatever chests and just open them on a new game to immediately have overpowered gear. Which is hilarious and fun to just dunk on everything.
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Sep 23, 2019 00:59
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EggsAisle posted:One thing that's really interesting to me is how we so rarely (never?) hear Sauron actually say anything. It's been a long time since I've read the books or watched the movies- does he have any lines? We hear all about how glib and silver-tongued he is, and his corrupting influence is all over the place, but he's a very impersonal antagonist, if that makes any sense. And yet it works, and works well. That's really neat! Sauron has exactly one line in the entire series, and it's delivered indirectly when Pippin gives his account of their conversation when Pippin looked into the Palantir. At the time Sauron assumes: a) that Pippin was the ringbearer, b) that the palantir is still in Saruman's control and thus that Saruman now has The Ring, and c) that Saruman is making Pippin look into the palantir as a cruel way of announcing to Sauron that he has The Ring ready for Sauron to pickup via Nazgul FedEx. Pippin posted:"Then suddenly he seemed to see me, and he laughed at me. It was cruel. It was like being stabbed with knives. I struggled. But he said: 'Wait a moment! We shall meet again soon. Tell Saruman that this dainty is not for him. I will send for it at once. Do you understand? Say just that!' Then he gloated over me. I felt I was falling to pieces. No, no! I can't say any more. I don't remember anything else." Gandalf immediately discerns that Pippin is telling the truth, and is relieved that yet again Sauron has been undone by his own pride and arrogance. Gandalf posted:"There is no lie in your eyes, as I feared. But he did not speak long with you. A fool, but an honest fool, you remain, Peregrin Took. Wiser ones might have done worse in such a pass. But mark this! You have been saved, and all your friends too, mainly by good fortune, as it is called. You cannot count on it a second time. If he had questioned you, then and there, almost certainly you would have told all that you know, to the ruin of us all. But he was too eager. He did not want information only: he wanted you, quickly, so that he could deal with you in the Dark Tower, slowly. Don't shudder! If you will meddle in the affairs of Wizards, you must be prepared to think of such things. But come! I forgive you. Be comforted! Things have not turned out as evilly as they might. It's absolutely deliberate that Sauron never makes a direct appearance. The entire plot is based around the fact even with The Ring that he is completely unbeatable in direct confrontation, and it is only through his own arrogance and complete inability to conceive that anyone would ever deliberately attempt to destroy such a source of great power that he is undone.
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Sep 23, 2019 01:25
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His symbol is a huge eye, but he can't see what's right in front of him.
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Sep 23, 2019 04:57
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Sauron can see the whole of middle earth, but can he see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch(tm)?
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Sep 23, 2019 07:15
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Man, I did a handful of online vendettas at 35 for chests and restarted on Nemesis and this is exactly my jam. The level 35 gear lets me play at the higher difficulty through that really rough early stage when you don't have any abilities.
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Sep 23, 2019 08:05
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Mzbundifund posted:It's absolutely deliberate that Sauron never makes a direct appearance. The entire plot is based around the fact even with The Ring that he is completely unbeatable in direct confrontation, and it is only through his own arrogance and complete inability to conceive that anyone would ever deliberately attempt to destroy such a source of great power that he is undone. True Gondor was pretty screwed during the events of the novels. Sauron's armies just kept growing and while they defeated the first invasion force, Sauron would have a second bigger one ready way before Gondor could recover its strength.
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Sep 23, 2019 08:30
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bony tony posted:His symbol is a huge eye, but he can't see what's right in front of him. On a more serious note, the movie, at least, shows that he can only see one specific area at a time.
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Sep 23, 2019 08:56
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Okay, I'm not gonna lie, there are two specific folks gonna show up later on... and I can't wait to see who they are. For the sake of avoiding spoilers, I won't say more.
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Sep 23, 2019 09:23
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MonsterEnvy posted:True Gondor was pretty screwed during the events of the novels. Sauron's armies just kept growing and while they defeated the first invasion force, Sauron would have a second bigger one ready way before Gondor could recover its strength. In the books, aside from the slight problem with the gate, Minas Tirith was actually STRONGER after the siege because all their counties were no longer under corsair threat. Plus they had a fleet now which may have made crossing the Anduin again harder. Even if they wanted to use the fords at Osgiliath.
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Sep 23, 2019 10:20
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bony tony posted:His symbol is a huge eye, but he can't see what's right in front of him.  One of the major themes of the books is that while Good can discern and pity the desires of Evil, Evil cannot understand the motivations and desires of Good.Galadriel posted:Do not be afraid! But do not think that only by singing amid the trees, nor even by the slender arrows of elven-bows, is this land of Lothlorien maintained and defended against its Enemy. I say to you, Frodo, that even as I speak to you, I perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is closed! Gandalf posted:'Saruman, Saruman!' said Gandalf still laughing. 'Saruman, you missed your path in life. You should have been the king's jester and earned your bread, and stripes too, by mimicking his counsellors. Ah me!' he paused, getting the better of his mirth. 'Understand one another? I fear I am beyond your comprehension.
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Sep 23, 2019 15:23
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Which is also why the idea of a righteous warrior-king as champion of the world's freedom is what draws his eye and makes absolutely certain he won't look at the humble little guys on their way to throw the ring in a fire. Aragorn is the sort of threat he can kinda sorta understand, probably tells himself that deep down the hero king guy is probably doing it for power, too. With no ability to realize that's an intentional feint.
Night10194 fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Sep 23, 2019 |
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Sep 23, 2019 16:58
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Night10194 posted:Which is also why the idea of a righteous warrior-king as champion of the world's freedom is what draws his eye and makes absolutely certain he won't look at the humble little guys on their way to throw the ring in a fire. Aragorn is the sort of threat he can kinda sorta understand, probably tells himself that deep down the hero king guy is probably doing it for power, too. With no ability to realize that's an intentional feint. This makes complete sense to me kind of knowing how Sauron thinks.
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Sep 23, 2019 18:01
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Meanwhile over here Celebrimbor is smashing his head into a giant brick wall screaming that the blood flying out of his nose is a sign of how his will is greater than the Dark Lord and he's sure to destroy him with his bright power any day now. Which should say something about whether he's good or evil, but hell, that's been obvious since his screaming madness through all of Bright Lord.
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Sep 23, 2019 18:05
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Night10194 posted:Which is also why the idea of a righteous warrior-king as champion of the world's freedom is what draws his eye and makes absolutely certain he won't look at the humble little guys on their way to throw the ring in a fire. Aragorn is the sort of threat he can kinda sorta understand, probably tells himself that deep down the hero king guy is probably doing it for power, too. With no ability to realize that's an intentional feint. Yeah, exactly. Sauron knows all about servants pretending to be loyal to a superior and all about superiors pretending to be fair and just to their servants. He's been the fair-form humble servant before. Sauron's played the manipulation game for eons, and he permanently assumes that everyone else is also attempting to manipulate as hard as they possibly can. That assumption is both why he was the absolute best at the manipulation game, (nobody can ever catch him by surprise with a double-cross backstab) and is simultaneously why he cannot ever understand Gandalf, Aragorn, and all the other good guys at all. The scene where Frodo's willpower fails and he puts on the ring in Mount Doom, when Sauron finally realizes his enemies' plans, is probably one of my favorites in the entire series. JRR Tolkein posted:And far away, as Frodo put on the Ring and claimed it for his own, even in Sammath Naur the very heart of his realm, the Power in Barad-dûr was shaken, and the Tower trembled from its foundations to its proud and bitter crown. The Dark Lord was suddenly aware of him, and his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made; and the magnitude of his own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash, and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare. Then his wrath blazed in a consuming flame, but his fear rose like a vast black smoke to choke him. For he knew his deadly peril and the thread upon which his doom now hung.
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Sep 23, 2019 18:32
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Night10194 posted:Meanwhile over here Celebrimbor is smashing his head into a giant brick wall screaming that the blood flying out of his nose is a sign of how his will is greater than the Dark Lord and he's sure to destroy him with his bright power any day now. Nevermind Good or Evil, he's an elf, and who even knows what they're about.
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Sep 23, 2019 19:37
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Mzbundifund posted:Yeah, exactly. Sauron knows all about servants pretending to be loyal to a superior and all about superiors pretending to be fair and just to their servants. He's been the fair-form humble servant before. Sauron's played the manipulation game for eons, and he permanently assumes that everyone else is also attempting to manipulate as hard as they possibly can. That assumption is both why he was the absolute best at the manipulation game, (nobody can ever catch him by surprise with a double-cross backstab) and is simultaneously why he cannot ever understand Gandalf, Aragorn, and all the other good guys at all. The scene where Frodo's willpower fails and he puts on the ring in Mount Doom, when Sauron finally realizes his enemies' plans, is probably one of my favorites in the entire series. That's one of my favorite passages in a series of books filled with good ones. Another one along those lines: quote:He is in great fear, not knowing what mighty one may suddenly appear, wielding the Ring, and assailing him with war, seeking to cast him down and take his place. That we should wish to cast him down and have no one in his place is not a thought that occurs to his mind. That we should try to destroy the Ring itself has not yet entered into his darkest dream. And another: quote:For he is very wise and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.
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Sep 23, 2019 19:48
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I had an idea about squaring the circle on how Talion could be looking for the Palantiiir at Minas Ithil in SoW after roaming post-The Hobbit/pre-LOTR Mordor in SoM. It might be useful to treat him as sort of like Mad Max; a recurring legend (whose wife and child got murdered, even) that gets inserted into the place of whichever sap Celebrimbor has possessed at a given time. "Talion" might even be what C calls all his possessed bodies, maybe it means something in one of the elvish languages or maybe that was the name of the first guy he possessed. Note that I haven't actually played SoW yet, so there could still be plenty of things in it that place it in "modern" Middle-Earth instead of whenever the conquest of Minas Ithil happened in Tolkien's timeline. Maybe Gollum shows up or something; apparently it's a faux pas to make a Middle-Earth game without him turning up in it. Probably because of his resemblance to the stereotypical gamer. Scruffpuff posted:That's one of my favorite passages in a series of books filled with good ones. Another one along those lines: I suppose that would make the Bright Lord campaign fit better. The one time someone powerful got their hands on the ring, they ran amok for a while and used his orcs to build a bunch of towers.
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Sep 24, 2019 00:44
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