|
Taintrunner posted:That would be Egoist-Anarchism and it has a flag, so yes i like the color scheme 
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 05:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 30, 2024 20:05 |
|
|
StashAugustine posted:I like the conspiracy theory that Stirner didn't exist and all his writings were just Engles trolling Marx He'd have fit in so well here.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 05:44
|
|
|
Mycroft Holmes posted:these people exist on this website, actually. it's why i'm not allowed in the milhist thread anymore. Ooh, is there a link to this?!
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 07:15
|
|
|
didn’t marx dedicate a whole section of the german ideology to how max stirner was wrong and dumb and the only reason anybody cares about stirner in 2019 is because marx wrote a section longer than all of his works combined about how he thought his stuff was wrong? i haven’t read the whole thing but i saw this part and lmaoquote:Above “Stirner” refuted the communist abolition of private property by first transforming private property into “having” and then declaring the verb “to have” an indispensable word, an eternal truth, because even in communist society it could happen that Stirner will “have” a stomach-ache. In exactly the same way here his arguments regarding the impossibility of abolishing private property depend on his transforming private property into the concept of property, on exploiting the etymological connection between the words Eigentum and eigen and declaring the word eigen an eternal truth, because even under the communist system it could happen that a stomach-ache will be eigen to him. All this theoretical nonsense, which seeks refuge in etymology, would be impossible if the actual private property that the communists want to abolish had not been transformed into the abstract notion of “property”. This transformation, on the one hand, saves one the trouble of having to say anything, or even merely to know anything, about actual private property and, on the other hand, makes it easy to discover a contradiction in communism, since after the abolition of (actual) property it is, of course, easy to discover all sorts of things in communism which can be included in the concept “property”. In reality, of course, the situation is just the reverse. In reality I possess private property only insofar as I have something vendible, whereas what is peculiar to me [meine Eigenheit] may not be vendible at all. My frock-coat is private property for me only so long as I can barter, pawn or sell it, so long [as it] is [marketable]. If it loses that feature, if it becomes tattered, it can still have a number of features which make it valuable for me, it may even become a feature of me and turn me into a tatterdemalion. But no economist would think of classing it as my private property, since it does not enable me to command any, even the smallest, amount of other people’s labour. A lawyer, an ideologist of private property, could perhaps still indulge in such twaddle.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 07:43
|
|
|
Samovar posted:Ooh, is there a link to this?! it was in an off site discord for the thread. that was a lolworthy political moment. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 17:03
|
|
|
weast posted:didn’t marx dedicate a whole section of the german ideology to how max stirner was wrong and dumb and the only reason anybody cares about stirner in 2019 is because marx wrote a section longer than all of his works combined about how he thought his stuff was wrong? i haven’t read the whole thing but i saw this part and lmao A huge part of all of Marx's writings are devoted to how other left/left-ish thinkers are dumb and wrong and smell bad.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 17:21
|
|
|
Captain_Maclaine posted:A huge part of all of Marx's writings are devoted to how other left/left-ish thinkers are dumb and wrong and smell bad. So you're telling me he was a Poster.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 17:22
|
|
|
Taintrunner posted:So you're telling me he was a Poster. He absolutely was a poster.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 17:24
|
|
|
wearing clothes is fascist
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 17:36
|
|
|
Tradcaths are a particularly loud meme ideology on the alt-right. Yeah dude you're totally gonna establish thomism as the state ideology of america!
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 18:07
|
|
|
I think there's an understandable reasoning behind wanting to dismiss hoteps as not being real because it's used so often by chuds and Nazis as a slur against any black person that has any bit of pride in their heritage. You only have to look at them snidely posting "we was kangs" a few times before you start to associate the term with white supremacists.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 18:16
|
|
|
Impermanent posted:funniest meme ideology is the trad caths  , so lemme talk about them for a bitso basically traditional catholicism can ultimately be traced back all the way to the french revolution and the ensuing separation of world/state and church which wasn't really a thing beforehand, as well as the emergence of the nation state which naturally was at odds with an internationally structured church whose members in theory were beholden to a single religious leader beyond government control. The church reacted to this conflict situation (as well as numerous attacks against it driven by various governments throughout the 19th and much of the 20th centuries) by basically walling itself in ideologically and defining itself as a bulwark against modernity, as well as demanding absolute unity and loyalty from its adherents. This meant that many local varieties and traditions went extinct and all inner-church opposition repeatedly got purged, but otoh from about 1850 to 1950 the church presented itself as an almost perfectly united front against the outside, both politically and ideologically. This all slowly came to its end during the mid-20th century. Tracing all the various processes and developments that led to it would be boring, so let's just say that in 1958 the church got a pope (john xxiii) who saw the signs of the times and realised that this catholic unity was crumbling everywhere and that the church was in dire need of change. In 1962 he called for a massive council of thousands of clergy and laypeople from all over the world which was to shake up things wherever needed. The whole thing went on for three years, and after the council the church had taken on a radically different course in many areas: in liturgy, the vernacular was now allowed to be used instead of latin, freedom of religion was accepted as not only legitimate but a good thing, the theological status of priests was changed from "basically a half-god" to "humans with a special job to do, but humans nonetheless", the relations to other churches and religions hugely improved et cetera It should be obvious by now that plenty of people loving hated it. There was a lot of opposition both during the council and afterwards, much of it centered around a french bishop going by the name of Marcel Lefebvre. Lefebvre was aghast at the extent of the changes and determined to create his own piece of catholic life which would be as untouched as possible from the council decrees. He found most of his followers in french-speaking europe, where the gulf between church and state had always been the deepest all the way since 1789, and where the traditionalist wing was the strongest because of it. In i wanna say 1978 he started his own seminary in switzerland, starting a fraternity of priests and laypeople who basically ignored that a council had ever taken place. The popes quietly ignored them to not stir up things too much, but they were forced to act when lefebvre ordained four bishops in 1988 without papal permission. Lefebvre and his followers got excommunicated, and his fraternity split into a faction that chose to remain within the church at the cost of having to accept the council as legitimate (the fraternity of st peter, of fssp for short) and a more radical one that split from the official church and continued to negate the council (the fraterniy of st pius x, or sspx). The latter ones are those which benedict xvi tried to reconcile with the official church a few years ago which ended in hilarity when one of their bishops turned out to be a holocaust denier with a huge hateboner for the sound of music of all things. Today the catholic traditionalist scene is a pretty wide-ranging field going from "socially and politically leftist, but still a fan of the old liturgy for personal reasons" (not a lot of those, admittedly) over the fssp and sspx which more often than not combine their religious traditionalism with being conservative at best and insane nazis at worst all the way to sedevacantists (there has been no pope since the 50s, instead it has been pretenders ever since - sometimes with the added twist of "the 1958 conclave actually elected giuseppe siri as pope and not john xxiii, but siri's election was suppressed by the (((freemasons))) and he was locked away in a monastery instead") and full-on antipopes who claim that they were elected by their mum who just so happens to be a cardinal. There seems to be a significant overlap of rad trads with monarchism, and i've seen more than one of them being huge believers in apocalyptic prophecies, often those by nostradamus and/or st malachy
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 18:28
|
|
|
Without meaning to detract from that excellent effortpost, I'll mention that we used to have a tradcath poster (his name escapes me at the moment) in D&D who lasted long enough to be banned in early LF. He referred to all the popes after Vatican II as "nopes," proudly owned up to being book-burner, and was a Waffen-SS reenactor. Oh, and he also argued that witchtrials were good and necessary things because witchcraft is an actual thing that endangers souls. As far as I can tell he was being wholly sincere in all of this.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 18:38
|
|
|
I encourage people to read Bishop Williamson review of Sound of Music, its loving hilarious
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 18:41
|
|
|
Captain_Maclaine posted:Oh, and he also argued that witchtrials were good and necessary things because witchcraft is an actual thing that endangers souls. As far as I can tell he was being wholly sincere in all of this. One of the first medieval arguments against torture was from a Jesuit who pointed out that if you actually have caught an honest to God witch in league with the devil, shed just lie about her accomplices
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 18:43
|
|
|
Captain_Maclaine posted:Without meaning to detract from that excellent effortpost, I'll mention that we used to have a tradcath poster (his name escapes me at the moment) in D&D who lasted long enough to be banned in early LF. He referred to all the popes after Vatican II as "nopes," proudly owned up to being book-burner, and was a Waffen-SS reenactor. the witch trials were more of a Protestant thing though weren’t they? IIRC the official position of the Church (at least during the Inquisition) was that witchcraft wasn’t even real
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 19:03
|
|
|
Mel Magazine: Inside the World of Weird Catholic Twitter — and the 'Rad Trads' there's some overlap between the modern day extremely online trad Catholics and the leftist millennial Tradinistas who are definitely not conservatives. on the other hand, Dreddout posted:Tradcaths are a particularly loud meme ideology on the alt-right. far-right extremely online rad Caths were also around the early '10s as part of the Neoreaction/Dark Enlightenment crowd. They might have labelled themselves as the Orthosphere, or that was just one blog that represented them. basically these were "throne and altar" dudes who fetishized 16th century paintings of old bearded dudes as their avatars, and traded long walls of text about de Maistre and other counterrevolutionary archreactionaries on their late-'00s looking Blogspot/WordPress blogs. so a very different style and age demographic from contemporary frog Twitter rad Caths, and much worse at meming. the old PYF Dark Enlightenment Thinker probably mentions them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 19:35
|
|
|
christmas boots posted:the witch trials were more of a Protestant thing though weren’t they? IIRC the official position of the Church (at least during the Inquisition) was that witchcraft wasn’t even real Most of the witch trials took place during the 16th and 17th centuries, roughly equally spread throughout Catholic and Protestant areas. Many if not most of them happened in religious border areas where the "other" was only a short way off, so historians have hypothesised that an important underlying reason to them was to act as sort of a "valve", releasing underlying tensions that came up due to that border situation Captain_Maclaine posted:Without meaning to detract from that excellent effortpost, I'll mention that we used to have a tradcath poster (his name escapes me at the moment) in D&D who lasted long enough to be banned in early LF. He referred to all the popes after Vatican II as "nopes," proudly owned up to being book-burner, and was a Waffen-SS reenactor. that guy is actually one of my first SA memories back to when I started lurking in 2005/06, lol
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 20:36
|
|
|
christmas boots posted:the witch trials were more of a Protestant thing though weren’t they? IIRC the official position of the Church (at least during the Inquisition) was that witchcraft wasn’t even real He was also talking about Inquisitorial actions when he brought it up, and did not fail to mention that though they had done good things in persecuting witchcraft, the protestants who also carried out witchtrials were still heretics who were commanded to reunite with the Mother Church. System Metternich posted:that guy is actually one of my first SA memories back to when I started lurking in 2005/06, lol darkwater! I just remembered his name!
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 21:39
|
|
|
Captain_Maclaine posted:Without meaning to detract from that excellent effortpost, I'll mention that we used to have a tradcath poster (his name escapes me at the moment) in D&D who lasted long enough to be banned in early LF. He referred to all the popes after Vatican II as "nopes," proudly owned up to being book-burner, and was a Waffen-SS reenactor. You mean Kyrie Ellison?
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 21:51
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/GarbageApe/status/1175506967571378177?s=20
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 21:57
|
|
|
Maximo Roboto posted:Mel Magazine: Inside the World of Weird Catholic Twitter — and the 'Rad Trads' Tradinistas are weird wasp converts who want to cling to a sense of authenticity the church provides (lmao) while holding generally leftwing views, in my experience I find them cringey ubela larpers but they mean well
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 22:06
|
|
|
i just assumed all monarchists were pedos. glad my suspicions were correct.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 22:41
|
|
|
Captain_Maclaine posted:Without meaning to detract from that excellent effortpost, I'll mention that we used to have a tradcath poster (his name escapes me at the moment) in D&D who lasted long enough to be banned in early LF. He referred to all the popes after Vatican II as "nopes," proudly owned up to being book-burner, and was a Waffen-SS reenactor. isn't the frank grimes guy from gbs a tradcath marxist
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2019 22:42
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:You mean Kyrie Ellison? Kyrie was a similar, but distinct, form of bugfucking nuts. Al! posted:isn't the frank grimes guy from gbs a tradcath marxist Beats me, I haven't read anything in GBS regularly in ages.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2019 01:08
|
|
|
Dreddout posted:Tradcaths are a particularly loud meme ideology on the alt-right. it's kinda cute really
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2019 01:59
|
|
|
Dreddout posted:Tradcaths are a particularly loud meme ideology on the alt-right. having gone to Catholic school, their love of ritual and authority and lack of understanding of scripture and meaning is basically what drives priests to drink
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2019 03:05
|
|
|
I don't think I've seen any Trad that isn't an anglo convert.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2019 04:53
|
|
|
Victory Position posted:having gone to Catholic school, their love of ritual and authority and lack of understanding of scripture and meaning is basically what drives priests to drink Basically Ned Flanders to Reverend Lovejoy? I think most online tradcaths are nerds who think it'll be like Warhammer 40,000.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2019 06:14
|
|
|
The funniest thing about radtrads imo is that while they never stop bleating about sacred tradition or w/e they really are nothing but 1870 cosplayers whose understanding of what the church is and how it is supposed to be structured begins and ends with the pianic century (i.e. the era going from pius ix's election in 1846 to pius xii's death in 1958), which all things considered really was the exception in catholic history and not the rule But enough about them, any dirt on maoism-thirdworldism instead? Pretty sure that I've never seen anyone honestly professing this ideology outside of lf, and even there I never was sure just how sincere they really were
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2019 07:54
|
|
|
mtw is mostly all about the kickass music
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2019 10:06
|
|
|
Flowers For Algeria posted:mtw is mostly all about the kickass music It's all about the hate Amerikkka beat.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2019 16:54
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:Basically Ned Flanders to Reverend Lovejoy? pretty much, one of my projects when I was in J-school (journalism) was to talk to priests about the dwindling numbers of folks in attendance it came up a lot that no one really listened to the sermons and were just there to show off that they were there
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2019 16:56
|
|
|
hating amerikkka, is a good thing hating amerikka puts you on the side of the world's oppressed majority
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2019 16:57
|
|
|
Lol imagine the consequences of making these posts if their worldview was actually dominant.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2019 17:15
|
|
|
So in France I'm aware of the historical reasons why the monarchists are in a three way split between the Orleanists, Bonapartists, and whatever you call the mainline Bourbon supporters, but I'd love to know more spicy facts about the current pretenders and what sort of nonsense policies each faction/ruler wants to implement.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2019 19:59
|
|
|
Also the people of Bulgaria actually elected the former Tsar Simeon II, who had been deposed in 1946 by the Soviets (who were probably mad that his entire family aligned with the Nazis but decided not to take it out on the 6-year-old) to be their prime minister in 2001. He claimed to no longer be a monarchist but his party was called the "National Movement of Simeon II. Anyways he got kicked out of office in 2005 elections because he turned out to be an exemplary neolib and that's apparently not what the bulk of his supporters actually wanted. Somehow he is still alive and his party got 1% of the vote in the 2019 euro-parliament elections.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2019 20:11
|
|
|
Most monarchists do id as ancaps.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2019 21:49
|
|
|
weast posted:didn’t marx dedicate a whole section of the german ideology to how max stirner was wrong and dumb and the only reason anybody cares about stirner in 2019 is because marx wrote a section longer than all of his works combined about how he thought his stuff was wrong? i haven’t read the whole thing but i saw this part and lmao
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2019 22:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 30, 2024 20:05 |
|
|
System Metternich posted:
yknow how in the UK the NHS was built on money stolen from other countries through imperialism? MTW is basically those countries wanting their money back to build their own communist systems i dont like the anti-solidarity stuff thats integral to MTW but it kinda owns as an idelogy lol cant really argue with that
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2019 22:14
|
|
