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Impermanent posted:funniest meme ideology is the trad caths  , so lemme talk about them for a bitso basically traditional catholicism can ultimately be traced back all the way to the french revolution and the ensuing separation of world/state and church which wasn't really a thing beforehand, as well as the emergence of the nation state which naturally was at odds with an internationally structured church whose members in theory were beholden to a single religious leader beyond government control. The church reacted to this conflict situation (as well as numerous attacks against it driven by various governments throughout the 19th and much of the 20th centuries) by basically walling itself in ideologically and defining itself as a bulwark against modernity, as well as demanding absolute unity and loyalty from its adherents. This meant that many local varieties and traditions went extinct and all inner-church opposition repeatedly got purged, but otoh from about 1850 to 1950 the church presented itself as an almost perfectly united front against the outside, both politically and ideologically. This all slowly came to its end during the mid-20th century. Tracing all the various processes and developments that led to it would be boring, so let's just say that in 1958 the church got a pope (john xxiii) who saw the signs of the times and realised that this catholic unity was crumbling everywhere and that the church was in dire need of change. In 1962 he called for a massive council of thousands of clergy and laypeople from all over the world which was to shake up things wherever needed. The whole thing went on for three years, and after the council the church had taken on a radically different course in many areas: in liturgy, the vernacular was now allowed to be used instead of latin, freedom of religion was accepted as not only legitimate but a good thing, the theological status of priests was changed from "basically a half-god" to "humans with a special job to do, but humans nonetheless", the relations to other churches and religions hugely improved et cetera It should be obvious by now that plenty of people loving hated it. There was a lot of opposition both during the council and afterwards, much of it centered around a french bishop going by the name of Marcel Lefebvre. Lefebvre was aghast at the extent of the changes and determined to create his own piece of catholic life which would be as untouched as possible from the council decrees. He found most of his followers in french-speaking europe, where the gulf between church and state had always been the deepest all the way since 1789, and where the traditionalist wing was the strongest because of it. In i wanna say 1978 he started his own seminary in switzerland, starting a fraternity of priests and laypeople who basically ignored that a council had ever taken place. The popes quietly ignored them to not stir up things too much, but they were forced to act when lefebvre ordained four bishops in 1988 without papal permission. Lefebvre and his followers got excommunicated, and his fraternity split into a faction that chose to remain within the church at the cost of having to accept the council as legitimate (the fraternity of st peter, of fssp for short) and a more radical one that split from the official church and continued to negate the council (the fraterniy of st pius x, or sspx). The latter ones are those which benedict xvi tried to reconcile with the official church a few years ago which ended in hilarity when one of their bishops turned out to be a holocaust denier with a huge hateboner for the sound of music of all things. Today the catholic traditionalist scene is a pretty wide-ranging field going from "socially and politically leftist, but still a fan of the old liturgy for personal reasons" (not a lot of those, admittedly) over the fssp and sspx which more often than not combine their religious traditionalism with being conservative at best and insane nazis at worst all the way to sedevacantists (there has been no pope since the 50s, instead it has been pretenders ever since - sometimes with the added twist of "the 1958 conclave actually elected giuseppe siri as pope and not john xxiii, but siri's election was suppressed by the (((freemasons))) and he was locked away in a monastery instead") and full-on antipopes who claim that they were elected by their mum who just so happens to be a cardinal. There seems to be a significant overlap of rad trads with monarchism, and i've seen more than one of them being huge believers in apocalyptic prophecies, often those by nostradamus and/or st malachy
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Sep 21, 2019 18:28
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christmas boots posted:the witch trials were more of a Protestant thing though weren’t they? IIRC the official position of the Church (at least during the Inquisition) was that witchcraft wasn’t even real Most of the witch trials took place during the 16th and 17th centuries, roughly equally spread throughout Catholic and Protestant areas. Many if not most of them happened in religious border areas where the "other" was only a short way off, so historians have hypothesised that an important underlying reason to them was to act as sort of a "valve", releasing underlying tensions that came up due to that border situation Captain_Maclaine posted:Without meaning to detract from that excellent effortpost, I'll mention that we used to have a tradcath poster (his name escapes me at the moment) in D&D who lasted long enough to be banned in early LF. He referred to all the popes after Vatican II as "nopes," proudly owned up to being book-burner, and was a Waffen-SS reenactor. that guy is actually one of my first SA memories back to when I started lurking in 2005/06, lol
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Sep 21, 2019 20:36
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The funniest thing about radtrads imo is that while they never stop bleating about sacred tradition or w/e they really are nothing but 1870 cosplayers whose understanding of what the church is and how it is supposed to be structured begins and ends with the pianic century (i.e. the era going from pius ix's election in 1846 to pius xii's death in 1958), which all things considered really was the exception in catholic history and not the rule But enough about them, any dirt on maoism-thirdworldism instead? Pretty sure that I've never seen anyone honestly professing this ideology outside of lf, and even there I never was sure just how sincere they really were
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Sep 22, 2019 07:54
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Larry Parrish posted:trotskyism is definetly the most mainstream meme ideology, and I'm serious about that too lazy to google, what actually defines trotzkyism besides rejecting stalins socialism in one country and this entryism idea which probably was the basis for a thousand conspiracy theories?
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Sep 23, 2019 21:53
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Maduo posted:Is this the thread to ask what Hoxhaists actually believe in besides bunkers, whenever I ask everyone just says bunkers but it can't just be bunkers right? I‘d say that besides the theoretical underpinnings of Hoxhaism which are like ctrl-c, ctrl-v of Stalinism with some elements of Maoism thrown into the mix, (not the three worlds theory though, which Hoxha denounced), it’s important to look at the praxis here. Albania under Hoxha was super nationalist and also insanely paranoid against pretty much everybody else and especially against Yugoslavia. This led to a radical isolationism, which in turn gave us, well, bunkers.
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Sep 24, 2019 12:46
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| # ¿ May 21, 2024 09:58 |
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Is Georgism a meme ideology or is it too obscure? the more obscure, the better a meme ideology it is imo
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Sep 26, 2019 17:03
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