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I genuinely laughed at quite a lot of moments in this season half or whatever it is. Noel Fielding still isn't a very good voice actor though. Was amazing to hear Rich Fulcher in the early episodes as her uncle too, I hope they get Julian Barrat in here somewhere in season 2! Definitely stronger characterisation for Zog and others in this half, I did feel elfo was a bit less creepy too?
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Sep 24, 2019 21:21
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Yea, Elfo felt less like some weirdo lusting after Bean and more an actual character. I'm curious how the amphora's that Derek and Elfo found fit into things. Whether it is what caused Slimy to grow big is kind of ambiguous. There is clearly some secret history of Dreamland that most people have forgotten, the Maru and Odval factions know it and want it for themselves.
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Sep 24, 2019 23:44
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I was kind of disappointed that this half-season went back to the status quo so fast. I really liked episode 6-10 where the main story heated up and tons of crazy stuff happened. Then rather quickly everything goes back to normal and we don't really hear from the main bad guys for many episodes despite them having no obstacles to messing with Bean and Zog some more. It deflates the hype I felt at the end of the last season to getting more episodes like the last few. I was hoping the slower, episodic bits were just establishing characters and the world and were done with. Not that I didn't enjoy them this season, but a bit underwhelming.[/spoilers] Also I kinda think Elfo's mom is [spoiler]not the Ogre queen (though it's a solid enough theory) but his resemblance to those underground creatures at the very end of ep 20 is very striking. We also know there's something weird going on with elves and the catacombs because we saw one walking in the castle walls during early season 1. I don't find this show very funny but I'm okay with that. I do wish it was funnier. I think they really are missing the timing and attitude of a true comedy though. A comedy show will really go for it in a scene where the entire point is that it builds up to a big laugh and takes the risk that the joke will actually land otherwise the scene is kinda pointless. Disenchantment doesn't do that very much, every joke is an aside of some sort, incidental humour while telling the story. I think a lot of shows these days do that because it is safer but it also makes them a lot less funny because they never go for the huge laughs. It also kinda makes them less compelling drama because everything is slowed down for a little, mildly amusing joke constantly. I didn't know this was all one production run so that makes me look forward to season 2 more. They certainly curtailed the worst elements of the show a lot in part 2. With time to review everything and learn from it more I think s2 will be great.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:58
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It feels more like a comedy from here (the UK) where the jokes flow naturally and it's not just all set up for jokes regardless of what's actually going on. Which is good! Also man your definition of "returning to the status quo" is very different to mine
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Sep 25, 2019 07:33
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Man Bean is the most unlikable protagonist I've seen in a long time. In fact all the main characters are awful and not in a funny way. This season only made things worse.
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Sep 25, 2019 12:37
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To expound on what I didn't like about this new season, I agree with those who think it was more invested in the story than the comedy -- we must just enjoy different balances in the formula. The first season balanced this well, in the way some of the better parts of the Futurama movies did, while this season felt too busy with emotional or tense moments in the story (that didn't land with me) to bother with the comedy.Mulderman posted:Man Bean is the most unlikable protagonist I've seen in a long time. In fact all the main characters are awful and not in a funny way. In the first season this was better, where we are empathetic to Bean but also recognize her immaturity and realize over time that while she's trapped in a prejudiced situation, the people around her aren't as despicable as we first believe, just flawed. But this season it seemed we're supposed to unquestionably side with her even when she's being impulsive and not communicating with the other characters. Like when she shoots Zog the tone of the show seems to want us to blame Odval (who is obviously scheming) but place no blame on her for being reckless or not communicating anything that she's seen. Bits like the convent in the first season walk the balance really well, where we can see Bean's strength of individuality and immaturity being intertwined, but attempts by the people around her to change this with patriarchal, oppressive means only exacerbate the issue because they stoke both at once, whereas her adventuring allows her to untangle them and assert herself while recognizing her need for growth -- and all this manages to be funny and not overly earnest at the same time. The only evidence the show has some perspective and levity about the "woe is me" angst this season is in Bunty's few asides about the revolution. Also Luci is not as chaotic/devious as in the first season, which undermines his character a bit. In hell, his two feigned betrayals are transparent and therefore tensionless, whereas even Bender who's also chaotic character but supposedly less so is more capable of temporary selfish betrayal. Elfo was at least less creepy with Bean as people have said (although they soundly mocked his niceguyness well with the giant episode in season one), which made him less Fry-ish and better defined by his naivete and simple moral compass, but he was also less of a focus than last season.
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Sep 25, 2019 13:29
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I really don't like the heaven and hell episode. It really feels like it changed a ton of the status quo in a really dumb and careless way. Like it kicked luci out of hell and eternally damned elfo with no real payoff, it established religion as something like physically real and present and generic in a show with a lot of strange fantasy religion cult things and it established raising the dead is like, hard but not overly hard. It seems like the crux of the bad writing of this show where they can't decide if everything is deep lore or everything is throw away single episode stuff. Like does it matter elfo is damned? should I care? does it change anything that luci is no longer a demon? does it change the state of the world to know hell is just a place you can walk down a slightly tall staircase and be in and that heaven is a place you can call on a phone (and I guess, bounce radio off of) and that vague joke christianity is the one true religion. etc. Like I'm over thinking it, but this show is maddening at being unclear what you should or shouldn't think about.
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Sep 25, 2019 13:51
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Please explain how Robot Hell works
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Sep 25, 2019 14:07
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twistedmentat posted:I think why part 2 works better is that there's no need to establish any characters so they can just focus on jokes and moving the meta plot along. And this drawer is where I keep my different lengths of wire.
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Sep 25, 2019 14:29
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Hakkesshu posted:Please explain how Robot Hell works It was just an amusement park in new jersey robotology bought and made into a place to keep sinners. It feels like futurama did a good job placing that sort of thing. Mixing goofball gags that you knew to not worry about with actual world building in a way that was more or less clear.
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Sep 25, 2019 14:42
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Elfo made no sense really. At one point he's a dumb naive goober, the next second he's a sarcastic rear end in a top hat. One episode has him not give a gently caress when someone gets killed in front of him, claiming Bean's betrayal caused this change in him. The next he's passing out multiple times in a row because he's so scared because of the trial. He's less creepy, but instead he's inconsistent. Also I guess the kingdom is hugely sexist now? And they don't really do anything with it. Except give Bean a small line every now and then, which is then ignored. Which might be the point or something I dunno? I was expecting the coffeeshop episode to really dig into that but nope! Oh lol it's so hard walking uphill after a long night of drinking! Back to status quo! Also was I supposed to feel bad for Zod after He tried to trap that bear woman by stealing her bear suit, forcing her to stay there against her will? Then getting a change of heart and giving it back? And why did she have to go back? Couldn't she come and leave every once in a while or something? The "emotional" bits fail just as bad as the comedy bits.
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Sep 25, 2019 15:41
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Mulderman posted:Also was I supposed to feel bad for Zod after He tried to trap that bear woman by stealing her bear suit, forcing her to stay there against her will? Then getting a change of heart and giving it back? And why did she have to go back? Couldn't she come and leave every once in a while or something? They were very specifically retelling scottish folklore about a selkie, but mixed with norse bezerkers instead. Which is a really weird joke, because it's kinda like, 'highly educated' humor like Futurama did with math and science, but like, about folk lore and not actually funny or anything. It's just a straight retelling of a scottish legend. But with like some "oh but norse also have a legend about animal skins, so make it that too". Like I think someone thought they were super clever there, but like, it's nothing.
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Sep 25, 2019 16:11
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I just finished watching the season and it was so much better than season 1. I mean, good lord, so so so much better.
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Sep 25, 2019 17:13
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Megillah Gorilla posted:I just finished watching the season and it was so much better than season 1. it's the same season!
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Sep 25, 2019 17:21
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:They were very specifically retelling scottish folklore about a selkie, but mixed with norse bezerkers instead. I know what they were going for. But Zod was still a complete rear end in a top hat there and I'm supposed to feel bad for him?
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Sep 25, 2019 17:44
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Mulderman posted:I know what they were going for. But Zod was still a complete rear end in a top hat there and I'm supposed to feel bad for him? It's the real flaw in the show, it doesn't know what it is. Like that episode is them just mechanically playing out a particular legend beat for beat, no joke, no commentary, it's just the legend and the characters this show made are subservient to how the characters in the legend acted. Everyone is just an actor slotting into whatever story they are telling at the moment. But it's not a goofy enough show to just have negative continuity either.
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Sep 25, 2019 18:07
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Honestly the entire show has the core problem of 'none of these people are likable so I'm not invested'. You can't make Bender the main character. Fry is a stupid selfish idiot most of the time but when we're introduced to him in the first episode we see him at a low point and then get to feel his excitement to be in a new environment and he seems real earnest about his enjoyment. The second season was better in alot of ways but I still hate all the main players in the show (except snake mom).
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Sep 25, 2019 18:51
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I'm just glad they've moved Elfo away from being the "nice guy" character.
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Sep 25, 2019 19:25
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It's not a problem to have a show where no one is likable. Everyone on Seinfield is objectively terrible and always sunny is intentionally making everyone the worst person you can imagine. It can still be entertaining to watch bad people, especially watching bad people fail. This show is so bad because no one has any character traits. Everyone is just drunk and cowardly and malicious and greedy and casually murderous and stupid and forgetful and lazy and naive and scheming and backstabbing. And every single person just passes around those traits scene to scene. Like if elfo was naive and lazy and he had to interact with the malicious and schemeing lucy and the drunk and stupid bean or something around the casually murderous zog you have a setup to watch and be entertained. The way it is everyone is everything at random, everyone might be drunk or murdering a 100 people or scheming or stupid at random. Every character could fit in any role at any time because no one is ever different. everyone is everything.
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Sep 25, 2019 19:28
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:It's not a problem to have a show where no one is likable. Everyone on Seinfield is objectively terrible and always sunny is intentionally making everyone the worst person you can imagine. It can still be entertaining to watch bad people, especially watching bad people fail. This makes sense, I liked Season 2 (Or season one part 2) more than 1 however the characterization is a bit weird and all the main cast doesn't really have a default personality and shift a little too much between varying flavors of awful. Honestly Derek actually is the most consistent character I feel and kind of glad he got some more air time. Bean reminds me kind of a less self-aware Bo-Jack horseman. Like she is not a good person, wants to be a good person and this comes through at times but she is mostly terrible. Bo-Jack has the problem of thinking just being self aware of his asshattery makes him a better class of rear end in a top hat, while Bean is just kind of oblivious at times of bad things she does. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Sep 25, 2019 |
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Sep 25, 2019 20:24
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I'd argue that a serialized format with a story needs to have characters you root for, even if they aren't likable. You can watch a show about stuff that just happens like ASIP to terrible people, but in order to be invested in characters pursuing their goals you have to at least sorta want them to win. Breaking Bad isn't about a likable protagonist (eventually) but it sets him up as somebody you want to succeed (until you don't). The difference in format is everything. E: maybe 'likable' is less accurate and it's more accurate to say the characters don't give me any reason at all that would make me care if they succeed or not so I have no emotional stakes in this serial plot. Agent355 fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Sep 25, 2019 |
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Sep 25, 2019 20:47
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twistedmentat posted:Not everyone can find a Elf that wants to have sex with us! the concerned look bean gave derek through the bar window after that line absolutely killed me
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Sep 25, 2019 21:39
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Mulderman posted:I know what they were going for. But Zod was still a complete rear end in a top hat there and I'm supposed to feel bad for him? Not really.
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Sep 25, 2019 21:51
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I quite like Bean, what did she do that's bad? She couldn't talk to them about what she saw in episodes 8 and 9 because they refused to listen to her, it made that pretty clear. I do feel that making the secret society that the Prime Minister, wizard and Tress Mcneil are in seems a bit poo poo. Like it went against the trope and that was interesting but now they've gone back on that. Either way I do hope there's more. It was 4th top watched in the UK which hopefully means it's doing okay.
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Sep 25, 2019 23:25
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Taear posted:It feels more like a comedy from here (the UK) where the jokes flow naturally and it's not just all set up for jokes regardless of what's actually going on. I guess so. To me the status quo that I was hoping would get shaken up was that the show was mostly about Bean, Elfo, and Luci hanging out and having various adventures to do with Dreamland, and dealing with Zog and the other political players and citizens. But despite Bean going to Maru to join her family, Elfo dying, Luci being captured, and everyone in Dreamland turning to stone, they still went back to that in two episodes. I was kinda hoping for more traveling around and different groups of characters.
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Sep 25, 2019 23:45
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Taear posted:I quite like Bean, what did she do that's bad? Bean is an awkward, impulsive teen with no idea where she fits in the world but ultimately a good heart. I think that's a big theme of the show really. They seem to love portraying everyone as flawed but somewhat sympathetic, eventually. I highly suspect next season will reveal another side to Bean's mother that makes her less of a clear-cut villain like they did with Zog last year. It definitely feels like the show was still trying to completely find its legs in part two. I'm curious to see how things can improve with the next batch.
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Sep 26, 2019 03:15
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Taear posted:I quite like Bean, what did she do that's bad? A major format for jokes in this show is having someone do something hyperbolically evil or awful but casually as a gag, and it makes it hard to know what any of the stakes for anything is. Like it's easy to name extremely terrible things she's done, but it's hard to know what the show thinks matters. Like she killed elfo then got him banished from heaven, that is like literally the worst thing someone could do, but I don't think we are supposed to care like that, same with her releasing all the bottled demons into the world, or all the times she kills someone as part of a gag, or butchering a whole petshop into meat, or any of the jokes about her being part of the corrupt and awful carefree nobility in a terrible suffering city state. Like everyone just being terrible works when the show is just jokes about everyone being terrible, but it's hard when they try and do more than that.
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Sep 26, 2019 12:33
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The only thing that bugged me about Bean this... half-season was how much she poo poo on her brother. Other than that I liked her. I liked both Luci and Elfo more than last time as well. Zog is not likeable per se but he is the best part of the show just because of John DiMaggio. That part where he chews loudly in front of the Twinkletown duke loving slayed me. Although I still feel a lot of the comedy falls completely flat, and the story isn't solid enough to make up for it, I really did like the episode about Steamland. That was maybe the first time we really got a look at what the show can be when everything works - all the scenes in the city reminded me so much of Futurama when they go to a new place and there are a hundred gags in every shot, and it also managed to set up a potentially ongoing plot that could legitimately be interesting if they lean into it.
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Sep 26, 2019 12:50
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The steampunk society was just so jarring for me. Sure, it was a great visual and I paused the show about a hundred times to try and catch everything, but it really doesn't fit into a fantasy world. Also the "there's no such thing as magic" doesn't really work when you see an entire kingdom turned to stone* and people brought back from the dead**. And where did Beanie learn all that medicine and how to remove the bullet? The assassin only showed her how to sterilise a wound, not surgery. Unless they spent the entire time on the sub talking medicine and just cut it out. And why would she even know about bullets, it's not like she even used a gun. And Elfo's death, from the start of the season is worth investigating. He was shot with an arrow which came out of nowhere. Watching it again, it stands out as an "hey, we're going to come back to this later" moment which will probably involve Elfo travelling back in time for some reason and shooting himself. * If the potion only affected living things, why did the waterfall turn to stone  ** Why not bring back Elfo, return to Elftown and try and get another drop of elf blood? Her mother wasn't going anywhere, but Elfo was only going to get deader. Beanie had all the time in the world and hosed it all up.
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Sep 26, 2019 13:46
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 This show has plot holes by not sitting down and explaining in detail exactly ever piece of information characters learned in order to make a funny sight gag.I like that Bean's a loving mess. She makes bad choices and those bad choices gently caress people up. Also, she lives free of consequence because of her standing as princess and has no idea how much her hubris damages people. I like that Elfo's "nice guy" behavior is showing explicitly that he's not a drat nice guy. I like that Luci's a demon whose conflict isn't "man, demonning is hard on the old angst muscle" but instead "man, i don't want to demon my friends into a horrible situation, i can't believe they went and made me into a friend." This isn't a show I'm going to recommend to many people, but it's absolutely a show built for me and I'm gunna talk up how much I like it to as many people as I can... with the qualifier of "but you'll probably get bored by it." I hate that this show's probably not going to get enough seasons to pay off all the stories it wants to do. There's a bunch of small gags and one off lines that turn out to have longer reaching consequences and greater gravity than initially implied, and because it's paced in such a slow fashion, we're not going to see most of this unless they find out in advance what the last season will be, at which point I'm sure everything will be rushed.
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Sep 26, 2019 14:21
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Whalley posted:I like that Bean's a loving mess. She makes bad choices and those bad choices gently caress people up. Also, she lives free of consequence because of her standing as princess and has no idea how much her hubris damages people. I like that Elfo's "nice guy" behavior is showing explicitly that he's not a drat nice guy. I like that Luci's a demon whose conflict isn't "man, demonning is hard on the old angst muscle" but instead "man, i don't want to demon my friends into a horrible situation, i can't believe they went and made me into a friend." This isn't a show I'm going to recommend to many people, but it's absolutely a show built for me and I'm gunna talk up how much I like it to as many people as I can... with the qualifier of "but you'll probably get bored by it." It almost hurts how much you can see what the pitch meeting premise of the show was. like the show they set up in the first episode. a teen stuck between the proper life of royal responsibility and a free life of adventure suddenly meets a tiny evil demon who can stand on one shoulder and a tiny elf who just left elf land where he was totally uncorrupted and didn't even know what death or war was who could stand on her other shoulder. It feels like THAT would be a show, even if you subverted it, made her royal life the free one and her adventure/peasant life the button down strict one, make the demon the pragmatic one and the elf the naive bad advice one. or whatever, it doesn't have to stick to just playing it straight, but it didn't stick to anything, every one is everything all the time. no one stays in character, nothing seems to have any rules about anything, etc. Stuff just happens and everyone just reacts however. You could give any character any line and it'd be fine. everyone has the same personality. there is an ongoing story but stuff just happens and resolves, there is mysteries but none of them turn out to be anything interesting. It's just random scenes strung together to support jokes, but the jokes aren't funny enough to make the loose writing forgivable.
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Sep 26, 2019 16:42
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This half season was a remarkable improvement over the first half but that's not saying much because the first half was absolute trash It's meandering, atonal, slow, with a whole bunch of antijokes (hahaha get it, the dresses actually belong to the guy! Comedy gold!) and a whole lot of things that feel like they're being set up for the next season (Elfo's mom, Dagmar, Oona, the Berserker, more poo poo from the secret society and Steamland) but as it is feel like they're just pointless distractions to what little plot the series manages to build up EDIT: Also hearing the exact same voice cast as Futurama and the Simpsons was distracting as hell
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Sep 26, 2019 22:10
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Glad this thread is as unreadable as last year's.
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Sep 26, 2019 22:16
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Bean feels a lot more fleshed out this time round. I mean, she's not Bojack levels of complex, but I thought they did a good job of showing that her actions have consequences. It did feel like there should have been more friction with her and Elfo though, they seemed to snap back pretty quickly, and I'm not sure what was up with the mermaids. The steampunk thing seemed super jarring and out of place, but it seems like there's a lot being seeded for next season there. The whole 'science' thing felt wierd because Dreamland does have a good understanding of the world around them, and it is a fantasy world, but it felt like they were talking about a completely different setting that episode. This show works better as a serialised story, but with jokes, rather than an outright comedy. Some are funny, some are cringe, but the show has potenial. The Matt Groening style of character design is really charming too. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Sep 26, 2019 |
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Sep 26, 2019 22:31
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Hakkesshu posted:Glad this thread is as unreadable as last year's. do you want everyone to gush about how great this show is or something? Are you hoping for deep lore and plot discussion?
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Sep 26, 2019 22:47
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OldMemes posted:The whole 'science' thing felt wierd because Dreamland does have a good understanding of the world around them, and it is a fantasy world, but it felt like they were talking about a completely different setting that episode. Yeah that felt odd too. The Dreamland wizard guy was portrayed as a bit mad alchemist in the first half but his outlandish ideas were more weird science and did often work. Him not understanding a gun makes sense on some level but he was really holding the idiot ball for sake of the plot there.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:05
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Mokinokaro posted:Yeah that felt odd too. The Dreamland wizard guy was portrayed as a bit mad alchemist in the first half but his outlandish ideas were more weird science and did often work. They were also literally experimenting on Elfo in the first half. To find things out through trial and error. Which is science. Mad science, but science.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:09
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OldMemes posted:They were also literally experimenting on Elfo in the first half. To find things out through trial and error. Which is science. Mad science, but science. I am 90% sure he was using a microscope in one scene. edit: yeah, elfo had candy in his blood, because they looked through a microscope and saw it. Owlofcreamcheese fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Sep 26, 2019 |
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Sep 26, 2019 23:24
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OldMemes posted:They were also literally experimenting on Elfo in the first half. To find things out through trial and error. Which is science. Mad science, but science. Yeah exactly. He IS a scientist which I think was supposed to be part of the joke with his character dressing like a wizard. Completely incapable of actual magic but a problem solver nonetheless.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:26
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Is there a non-"it's a TV show deal with it" reason that the Elves left their kingdom and moved to live in squalor in Dreamland after giving blood? Did I miss it?  Otherwise, this was a decent season. That said, I have a feeling I'll forget this show existed for another year in a week. e: decent half season
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Sep 26, 2019 23:43
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