|
I tried watching Season 2 Part 1 / Part 3 / Season 3 or whatever by itself but was confused about a lot of the plot I didn't remember. So I watched all 30 episodes again at once and that just made things worse once I realized there are 100 disconnected plot threads. I could start asking all of the unanswered questions I have or pointing out the stuff that didn't make any sense but this post would be 10,000 words. Trogs are obviously elves though.
|
#
¿
Jan 26, 2021 23:56
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 22, 2024 09:35 |
|
|
Polo-Rican posted:Just finished the last episode. If you were to watch just the first few episodes and the last, it might seem like there's some coherent plot... I like the concept of the trogs coming back to save the kingdom. But practically nothing else in the season matters - the arch druidess plot, the Steamland plot, Derek's plotline, the "gathering an army" plot, the green smoke, etc. And normally it's fine if plot stuff in a cartoon doesn't matter... most individual episodes of simpsons, futurama, etc, don't matter... But Disenchantment gives up so many opportunities for humor and character-building in order to chase these plotlines, so it's pretty insane that they don't tie into the rest of the show at all. I think there are two factions involved in the production of it. One wants to stick to the 1990s era one-off comedy shots that don't care about continuity and the other wants to write like a 2010s era serialized storyline that encompasses the entire run of the show start to finish. It doesn't work like Futurama or other reset-button type multi-season shows that still have plot development because the jokes are fighting with the show itself. I don't think that's the entire problem though because a lot of random non-comedy stuff also makes no sense. One that sticks out to me is when they were in the Trog tunnels. So Dagmar is tricking Bean into the whole prophecy thing by being nice to her. Most of an episode goes into this. Then the music box Dagmar has been using on Bean wakes her up and leads her into the tunnels in the middle of the night where she ends up going to Dagmar's room Then Bean knocks, which Dagmar ignores, then Bean comes in and talks to her about the music box, which she also ignores, until they come face to face with Dagmar eating Trog brains So Dagmar being revealed now goes bad, captures Bean and talks about how it's a shame it had to end up that way. By every indication Dagmar ratted herself out because she couldn't keep up the gimmick for one episode but acts like it was an accident? Is the music box coming from something/someone else and the show hasn't bothered to explain it in 30 episodes other than Dagmar explicitly taking credit for the music box? Was it not actually an accident and she just decided in the middle of the night to confront Bean in the weirdest way imaginable? Why not just throw her in a prison cell normally? Did Dagmar wake up Bean to have her discover the Trog elixir for some reason and accidentally get caught secretly(but not very) eating Trog brains? You can say the show has yet-unseen plot reveals that will make this stuff make sense or give it a huge benefit of the doubt and make up motivations for Dagmar (she's lazy and got impatient and was also dumb) but the Steamland freakshow doesn't make me that optimistic. "Okay, that's it, I saved the last Freak, we can go now" *later* "Wait! The Last Freak!" *runs back* "Mora! The most obvious cage in the entire room! Directly across from Elfo's! We forgot you existed! Everyone was almost looking directly at you the entire time!"  Also both of these nonsensical plot points were at the end of an episode. I don't know if that has something to do with why poo poo is making no sense. Almost like someone wants Episode 2-6 to be the Mora Romance episode and in their mind that includes the introduction between Bean and Mora, so they can't meet in 2-5 when the freakshow escape occurs during the freakshow episode but 2-6 has so much Mora/Bean plot that we also can't have the entire Freakshow escape (Which has to go in the freakshow episode) and natural introduction also take place there. Then they are just too stubborn or lazy to have Mora escape through the hatch by herself in the background or something. Bean had to rescue her from her tank in their romance episode, which can't also be the episode where the escape takes place. 2-5 the escape episode must also end with the citywide blackout which takes place after the escape itself but before 2-6 where the introduction takes place. Basically I'm getting real George Lucas vibes right now 
|
|
#
¿
Jan 28, 2021 10:28
|
|
|
BrotherJayne posted:Huh. Yeah see that's why I don't consider it nitpicking. Someone could be like "Why do they have a plague patrol for laughs but no visible signs of plague in their society! Bean was in a plague pit she should be sick" That's Nitpicking. Someone could say "How can the knights go on these quests without provisions! they are covering what seems like thousands of miles!" That's Nitpicking. But when the entire setup of 2 episodes is that Dagmar gets caught unaware, apparently by herself, then it seems like a legitimate question. She told on herself and ruins her own plan with the music box? The family curse is supposed to be madness and hallucinations so maybe Bean imagined it at the perfect time? Is some other as of yet unseen benefactor using it too? Was it a legit mistake due to lovely writing? Then you get like 3+ of these in a 10 episode season it's easy to get less and less enjoyment from the fun setting and funny one off bits/lines they do. They've got me. I'm watching. I like the show but the equivalent would be Bojack Horseman explicitly calling the cops on himself, being surprised when they show up and arrest him ten minutes later, seriously acting like he has no idea how it happened and the plot acts like that was what actually happened and the show just ignores its own setup. There might be a funny joke in there about an animal cop but the scene makes no sense.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2021 11:26
|
|
|
Taear posted:That's why I feel like it's more like a game design studio. There's a bunch of writers who work separately and someone brings their ideas together but they do it in a bit of a poo poo way because nobody's QUITE communicating with each other properly. No, see, the Trogs slap their butts in the forest for some reason. This means the army went back to it's home planet? Which Elfo said as a legit funny joke in Season One, when everyone is having a secret huddle and his contribution is a hastily whispered "One time.....my daddy....took me into the woods....and slapped me on the bum bum." He said it again during the Heist episode with the Trolls that are almost identical to Elves. It could either be a coincidence that both jokes are similar, and the trogs were doing something wacky that the other characters reacted weirdly to, or the show could be laying Plot Seed #86 and suggesting weird forest butt slapping is important somehow. They may or may not mention it for 2-3 years so it may just join the other half dozen things that are either poorly planned plot or outright bad writing. I mean who really cares? It's butt slapping. It's just been brought up every season for some reason and the trog stuff seemed weirdly important. Maybe the show will only make sense once it's had a full run, and if it gets cancelled poo poo like the butt slapping, music box, finger lightning, spike crowns, trogs, trog slime, dreamland magic, cursed Maru families, Cursed Dreamland families, secret societies, other secret societies and anything else I'm forgetting will just forever be a mystery or half-assedly resolved in 5 years during a netflix movie that tries to tie everything up.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2021 14:05
|
|
|
I do get that the Army was weak/pathetic and creeped out by the Trogs which is why they all quit, but it felt like Poochie going back to his home planet. You have the whole episode setting up the army and it's like "Woah! Look at that!" *everyone scatters in all directions instantly and that subplot is done forever, never to be mentioned again* It reminds me of other legendary bad writing from the show Defiance, where they raise up an army of townspeople too. They go through the drill sergeant routine and everything. Later the Army gets wiped out completely and the drill sergeant guy has to be real sad and upset about losing all of these people he nurtured. He got them killed after all. Real survivors guilt stuff. Drunken flashback and smashing stuff scene. Dramatic music. The problem is that they raised the army in like 30 seconds of screentime, they died in almost the next scene, and the dramatic flashbacks he had about them five minutes later were of the only footage they had of the army before they died, which was the 30 second drill sergeant routine. I don't even think they had names. If you are extremely generous to the material you can explain what they were attempting if you dance around what they actually did. Rectal Death Adept fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Jan 30, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Jan 30, 2021 13:56
|
|
|
Megillah Gorilla posted:Talking cat is no Scruffy the Janitor. 
|
|
#
¿
Feb 5, 2021 04:17
|
|
|
I have this weird idea that they can't just keep making plotlines without explaining any of them forever and eventually they are going to somehow tie everything together so I'm going to watch this season in disbelief
|
|
#
¿
Feb 4, 2022 12:31
|
|
|
This is a real dumb thing nobody should care about but of all of the things I could criticize about these episodes I really just want to know why a show that makes it's single most prolific joke the fact that people fall from the castle into the water constantly then try to use the cliff and the fall to create tension. Someone falls into the water dramatically ...ROLL CREDITS, Somber end theme. Not only is the court jester's entire character based on the fact that he is constantly thrown out of the castle almost every episode but the one time it was portrayed to be fatal with the land vikings they turned out to have survived. But still characters are extremely concerned about it when the episode needs a more serious tone. I think that sums up my problem with the show without a huge dissection. It's a dumb joke and a minor inconsistency that isn't important or normally worth mentioning but the shows biggest established joke is completely ignored from scene to scene, seemingly at random. I think this is a good example of the bipolar writing.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 11, 2022 16:47
|
|
|
The World Inferno posted:This is what's resoundingly disappointing everytime I've checked in with the show. Bean is a great character. Elfo and Lucci could be great counterparts. A limited magic medieval world is good. Music great. Lore, probably honestly ok to good. That scene where everyone is watching Bean confront Cloyd and Becky over their plot to use mutant old lady hands to scratch people looking for magic has the Dreamland audience have this exchange quote:I didn't see that comin'. It could be a general joke or an indication of how the writers feel about criticism of the 3 years of releases so far. Not sure. My best guess is that the writers room lays out a season and then Groening himself does a bunch of first draft rewrites that nobody can overrule. It doesn't explain how the serious portions don't make sense independently but would explain how the show alternates between a serious multi-year long plot and characters completely ignoring that to zing eachother constantly.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 12, 2022 08:59
|
|
|
I was going to rant about the show but I can't even muster up the effort That's saying something
|
|
#
¿
Feb 17, 2022 22:41
|
|
|
What didn't make sense? That Cloyd and Becky were inexplicably using crone arms to search for magic that they already knew Bean has because they are working with Dagmar who knows that and had an entire episode about Bean's special power revolve around them or that they turned into puppets in 2 seconds to run around a new castle that didn't exist before that episode looking for something mysterious enough it's very concept hasn't been explained after 40 episodes? Are you suggesting that it could be confusing that the magic that is apparently at the center of everything is still unexplained too? Is that what they are looking for down there? The source of it? If the source of it is in Dreamland like Alva and everyone says then what are the hell bargains and spiked crowns in Maru about? Who used magic against the Dreamland elves if Dreamland is the source of magic? Why were Cloyd, Becky and Freckles unable to find the hidden elf castle if Dagmar spent years with the trogs in the hidden tunnels of what was revealed to be a not-hidden-at-all elf castle? Did the writers just make it up 30 episodes in and need to reorder some things to invent basically new settings and storylines that just reference older themes that have been poorly hinted at and not explained for years now? I should stop myself before I write 10,000 words of conflicting nonsensical questions this show isn't answering. Rectal Death Adept fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Feb 20, 2022 |
|
#
¿
Feb 20, 2022 03:42
|
|
|
I love the setting, I like the characters and the show looks great. I just don't need the first 4 years of a show to not explain basic plot points it's constantly referencing LOST opened the hatch in the second season. They weren't still teasing it at Year 4 while the hatch location and appearance constantly changed due to the island evolving while introducing six other people also related to the unexplained hatch in unexplained ways Rectal Death Adept fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Feb 21, 2022 |
|
#
¿
Feb 21, 2022 00:16
|
|
|
people mention the Simpsons constantly too because Groening is known for precisely two things
|
|
#
¿
Feb 21, 2022 01:40
|
|
|
No way can they wrap this up in 10 episodes
|
|
#
¿
Aug 18, 2023 02:31
|
|
|
I criticized the show pretty hard but that is about as good of an ending as I could have expected. The big mystery was handled in a few lines of dialog that explained everyone basically already knew everything and the secrecy was pointless. Once the show ran out of time they had like two conversations that essentially explained everything. To me this would indicate there was no reason to spend years dragging out simple explanations of things and the big mystery stuff was a waste of time but what do I know. They murdered the in-show critic like 3 times to prove a point that I am stupid.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 5, 2023 02:23
|
|
|
QwertySanchez posted:I've never really thought bad tv shows was especially bad, it's all just generically samey with a few good shows that stand out. But this show has shown me what actual a bad show looks like. Like how did some of this stuff get to the final cut?! One part that springs to mind involved that Alva guy doing the fanfic bit with the mermaid (and that didn't even stay internally consistant, he had a fanfic he was writing he wanted to show off but they just do improv instead?) and while that's going on (at least this is what the editing suggests) Bean is off stumbling onto the weird robo suit. Alva steps out of the shadows in all his lab gear ready to take advantage of the situation. I was expecting this to be explained by the other one being a robot Alva, or something... anything. But nope, apparently he knew where Bean was going, what she was doing, and was in two places at once. I had to rewatch it twice to make sure I hadn't missed anything. I posted a bunch of words about similar inconsistent stuff in the past. My conclusion/opinion was that the show is bipolar with the serialized stuff supposedly being the point of the show but Groening involving himself enough to push through the gags. Groening is the George Lucas of his quirky comedy cartoons so when someone writes an episode that is like "Get to Steamland -> Meet Alva -> Dinner -> Reveal of Suit to Advance Plot" you have Groening pushing through gags he finds funny like Chaz, honking or the creepy fanfic so the show has to sidestep around this stuff while kind of ignoring it.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 15, 2023 13:01
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 22, 2024 09:35 |
|
|
PostNouveau posted:Dagmar just allowing a rebel faction to live unperturbed in the castle is maybe the least sensical plot point of the last season. At one point early on she and Elfo have a confrontation in the throne room and he just walks out and closes the door behind him and then has like a whole 2 minute conversation with all his buds right on the other side of the door. Like, open the door and kill him, lady. Why do you seem to care so little about your evil plan? You've enlisted literally Satan in it, and you just kinda twiddle your thumbs for most of the season. I'm still confused about the part where Dagmar is trying to trick Bean by being nice to her and it seems to be kind of working only for Dagmar to use the music box to lure Bean into discovering her being evil which she then acted surprised about. So she foiled her own plan? Did someone else use the music box despite it being established Dagmar was the one using it to mess with Bean? Why did the music box need to lure Bean into discovering Dagmar eating Trog brains in the first place? If Dagmar wanted to just come out as evil why do it that way and also act surprised about it? It's like the writers didn't think it would be convincing that Bean started exploring the Trog tunnels unprompted and picked the thing that had been luring her around in the past but didn't consider it would make zero sense when applied to Dagmar specifically. It's completely unimportant but highlights that weirdly poor execution in the scripting. The episode where Bean hits her head and hangs out with Mora which is apparently presented to the viewer as a dream, complete with necklace in the surf closing scene, is another example. Bean and Mora never thought it was a dream and only thought the other had ran away. They resolved it by figuring out the other mermaids separated them. So what was the point of the dream stuff? Was it not intended to be portrayed as a dream and just weird scripting that made the viewer assume that? What?
|
|
#
¿
Sep 15, 2023 23:50
|
|