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Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
A few notes:
Resist Cold cuts cold damage in half and grants +3 to saves against cold.
Sleep spell is tied to hit dice (which determine hp and other things) and works on enemies with 4 hit dice or fewer. In theory you could Sleep up to 16 Kobolds but you probably won't ever bother.
The death mechanic works as follows:
Reduced exactly to 0 hp? You are unconscious.
Reduced to between -1 and -9 hp? You are dying, losing 1 hp per round until you hit -10, which is death.
Reduced to -10 or below? You are dead.

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Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
Missile weapons have their own rate of fire: bows (but not crossbows) shoot twice per round and you can throw three darts per round. As we've seen the combats in the game offer you the chance to cork a door or hallway and have PCs behind the lines use spells and missile weapons. In practice, this can work fairly well but you're unlikely to have more than one or two PCs shooting in most fights. It takes no combat action to switch weapons, though.

Darts are an extremely efficient way to kill helpless creature like all those sleepers.

That one Rope Guild fight can be won, fairly reliably, once your wizard hits 3rd level and has selected the appropriate spell.

For reference, look at PC hit points. Then note that an average human with a long sword does 1-8 damage per hit. These games can be lethal.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Chokes McGee posted:

People say this, and yet.

Anyway that's enough of that, we'll get to that fight later and it'll be a running gag for a bit.

We'll discuss when you're there. I was that sad player that went through the whole series multiple times, min-maxed PC development, exploited every little loophole in the combat engine. I was the guy who played the custom-made FRUA module with a solo character specifically designed by the author to play through it, who opted for the "can't win this fight" final battle, beat it, and then sent the author advice on how to make it genuinely unbeatable.

Then I graduated and got a job.

I tried revisiting the Gold Box series a few years back and found myself wondering how I ever had the patience.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Chokes McGee posted:

At least during the dry run the game had the decency to give me a halberd I could give to Hanover for a while. WTF am I supposed to do with a Glaive? :mad:

Hey, love it or glaive it.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
So Bard's Tale called me with a message to pass along, but before it could tell me the message it got interrupted by a random encounter.

Stinking cloud plus missile weapons can be an effective tactic in this game, although the 1 round per level duration is a problem. Works much better with L4 wizards and at least two wizards in the party. Also, note that casting one cloud atop another makes monsters within the area make another save.

I can't recall if this changed between games, but I do know the AI is sometimes happy to wander aimlessly through clouds until it fails the save. The main factors I recall are being large or huge and starting with part of itself in the cloud.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

OK, let's talk about this encounter a little bit. Firstly, as has been mentioned, you can drop hirelings here to take hits and deal damage. Bonus points for betraying and slaughtering them because they are evil, but generally at least one troll won't be incapacitated and you can rely on it to kill your hired help so you can loot the bodies.

Secondly, it's helpful to either have a L4 wizard or two L3 wizards for an extra Stinking Cloud.

If you look at the starting position, note that you can cast Stinking Cloud right where Chokes did, with its right side on the front troll, and because all the monsters are tall you completely block access to the party. After doing that, you back away; every monster gets one free attack when you do that but the troll doesn't get to take all three of its attacks and it can't follow without moving into the cloud again. I think I've seen the AI in the PC game take multiple steps in the cloud once it's entered, but I may be thinking of one of the sequel games where the monsters aren't smart about such spells.

This then gives you three or four rounds to weaken the trolls with ranged attacks. If you made the original troll puke you toss a dart at it on the last turn of the effect. (Your mage can be Magic Missile casting in the meantime.)

The two remaining trolls then rush up when the first cloud stops, and you can catch them both with a second cloud. If you don't incapacitate at least one, you run the risk of not killing both before the first gets back up, so this is the spot where you most likely have to reload. This phase of the combat is much safer with the L4 hirelings, because they take the initial rush and soak attacks from a still-active troll while you finish them off.

The two keys to this tactic: avoiding the troll claw/claw/bite attacks as much as possible, and using bows which grant you 2 attack rolls per round to hit the troll AC instead of 1. Note that Stinking Cloud worsens the AC on a troll that isn't knocked out by it, so you'll have an easier time landing those shots.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
I don't think the engine supported a three-sided combat at this point, so what they needed to do was describe half the attackers being forced to engage undead in the text, and shrunk the actual encounter.

In any game like this, one big question is how the rules system will be adapted. SSI’s deal with TSR forced them to be as faithful as possible, so some of the punishing rules are simply following 1E AD&D precisely.

Speaking of punishing, notice where that elf body is placed. The first time I played PoR, I didn't have a clue book or the savvy to explore every drat square of every location, so I breezed into the keep without getting the three magic words. What's not shown is that those random undead patrols are extremely frequent (every 4-5 squares of movement. Without the word, they guarantee that you're going to be banged up for the big fight. They also make blindly exploring the Keep a drat nuisance. I ended up skipping the Keep because of that. I think I didn't finish PoR until after Secret of the Silver Blades came out.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

PurpleXVI posted:

I'd disagree there.

Because the basic math and resolution mechanic they inherited was from 3E, which meant you had, at game start, very small modifiers(+1 to +5 or so) combined with an extremely swingy random factor(1 to 20). Now, you combine this with everything interesting you can do(dailies, per-encounters, etc.) being limited-use and still needing to land a hit for the most part, and you get a lot of "I use my big epic ability!" "well you roll a miss, and there's not even any sort of piddling on-miss effect, next player." which made encounters of any kind regularly very unfun, swiftly degenerating into whiff-fests of just everyone spamming basic attacks or their limited selection of at-wills.

I'm also gonna argue that the minimized character customization is directly a result of the splat bloat inherited from 3E. Both systems would have been much better if they had, at most, one more base class than 2E and the remainder were customization options. Hell. Boil it down to four base classes: Swordman, Spellman, Sneakman, Holyman. Then let people customize their way into the remainder of the class options from there.

Splat bloat started with the 2E handbook series, which they couldn't even manage to present consistently in terms of how character kits worked, and where after covering classes they started releasing race-based handbooks.

1E splats were mostly accumulated custom rules collected in a hardback, with adventure modules their main product. Given that adventure design was pretty much on a trial and error process, you had to buy enough well-written modules just to get a sense of how to put an adventure together, and the designers were working that out themselves as they went. 1E was a great thing to encounter at ages 12-14, and 2E “aged” with that cohort.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
[Skeletons...]

So, if you carry some bludgeoning weapons as backups, they deal full damage to skeletons.

[Random outdoor encounters...]

So, if you carry some ranged weapons as backups, they are very effective against these wilderness encounters.

[Kobold cakewalk...]

Some things don’t need advice.

It may be easy, but the designers were being nice in the sense that you usually get the sweep ability at L2 fighter and then stop encountering monsters you can sweep with it. Bringing back kobolds is a way to make you feel awesome and powerful before the endgame areas remind you that you are still low level PCs.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Chokes McGee posted:

IIRC that's actually a random encounter. I hadn't gotten into those because Chokes Has Played the Game Before cuts down on wandering. I also think the only one I've ever tripped was the snake cave, which is... I mean, it's a snake. In a small cave. There you go, that's the snake cave. :geno:

“I am sick and tired of these... wait, was that the only motherfucking snake in this motherfucking cave?”

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
Fighters in 1E can sweep any foe with less than 1 Hit Die. Size matters not.

And we all know the old saying: Spring a bunch of captives and you free them for a day. Murder a bunch of slaving buccaneers and you free their slaves for a lifetime. Or until more slavers move in. Unless some of the people they took as slaves were slavers themselves, though in that case those people probably stay free despite taking a bunch of other people as slaves.

Not sure why that saying never caught on. I don’t suppose it matters much given that undead are about to run rampant and kill everybody.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Randalor posted:

Actually, I'm surprised Chokes didn't have the specter as an undead Bob Barker telling Rezen she was the next contestant on The Price is Wight before she turned the dial and looked back at the party.

Whoever loses the most levels--without going over--will win the prize!

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
I guess they didn't have the wight stuff. They were all worn out after NaNoWiMo. They had no attack coordination because their left hands didn't know what the wight was doing.

Are we done? Is this gag through? Or will we continue this wraith to the bottom?

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

achtungnight posted:

Or a Globe on top of a Cold Fire Shield. drat you, Dark Queen of Krynn! See a Dark Wizard in that game, prepare to take some damage.

That’s compensation for every fight past the midgame against draconian hordes being one or two spells followed by watching the enemy army self-destruct.

But yes, we are very close to the games that basically expect that your SOP is to have one fight and rest if in an area where resting is possible. I tried replaying Pools of Darkness a year ago and was baffled at the younger me’s patience.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Randalor posted:

Can you charm someone who is already under the effects of a charm spell?

Yes. I think it works fine in this game, but sometimes stacked charm effects can end up setting a PC to hostile on a permanent basis.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
Definitely C and dualclass him, but you also have to use him for the wizard with the sphere encounter (Mild Curse spoiler that shouldn’t make much sense if you haven’t played it).

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Chokes McGee posted:

Detect invisibility is also useless! Everyone you'll fight that can do that are actually using Blink! And I still can't figure out what the hell Dispel Evil is or if it even does anything.

There's a lot of dead content in all these games. It's one of those rare moments of the engine supporting something no one ever used. Maybe it gets used in non Forgotten Realms games idk

Dispel Evil allows you to make an attack that banishes an evil extraplanar being. Until it lands, your AC is supposed to be boosted against evil opponents. I know that the banishment can potentially work but many creatures which should have the "extraplanar being" tag do not.

If memory serves, you can use it against Flame Snakes in PoD. Not that they're worth a L5 cleric slot to banish.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
Areas like the Kobold cave are why, when replying PoR, I would routinely create two disposable multiclassed spellcasters (1 cleric, 1 wizard) who would get dropped for a paladin and ranger in Curse. You have more fireballs for the fights, and more cure light wounds spells which you can cast. This is also clearly a spot to expend some of those potions and magic item uses you otherwise save up through multiple games in the series.

Also, the Zhentil Keep dinner conversation proves what I've always though about most RPGs: combat is usually far less dangerous than conversation.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Xenocides posted:

Sort of. Druids used cleric spells but were restricted to certain cleric spheres. Pretty sure druid spells did not become their own grouping with unique spells until 3rd edition.

And as was mentioned Rangers get Druid and Magic User spells but they are pretty mediocre. They get druid spells at 8th level and max out at level 3 spells and only get two of each level. For Magic User spells they max out at 2nd level and get two of each level. Weirdly they do get their full level as a caster level so a 9th level Ranger chucks Magic Missiles like a 9th level magic user.

It is also a bug in the Gold Box games. By a strict reading of the rules the Ranger/Magic User would be able to cast their Ranger Magic User spells in armor but not their Magic User Magic User spells.

That's Second Edition. In First Edition, Illusionists and Druids had a different spell list although they did have some spells that overlapped with Cleric and Magic User. (Sometimes they received the same spell at a different level or with minor changes.)

Gold Box has no druids, so rangers receive limited druid spells and nobody else gets any at all. Detect Magic, Cure Light Wounds, Cure Disease and Neutralize Poison are all overlaps; Entangle, Faerie Fire, Invisibility to Animals, Barkskin, Charm Person or Mammal, Hold Animal, and Protection from Fire are all unique spells though really only Barkskin, Charm, and Protection from Fire is likely to see much use. Neutralize Poison is critical to give you a back-up to your cleric as poison is instantly fatal and a dead cleric can't neutralize their own poison.

Gold Box does incorrectly allow dual-classed characters to cast Magic User spells in armor. If memory serves, you can do a Fighter/Magic User with the same effect as a Ranger/Magic User. Although the correct choice if you're doing the corrupt party later in the series is to get a Cleric up to L15-20 or so and then switch to Magic User. When I was younger and had too much time on my hands and not enough games, I'd do Pools of Darkness replays with five dual-classed characters. You'd have to stagger the class changes because you get a L1 character (with tons of hp), but they gain levels rapidly and you can get really ridiculous endgame parties this way.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
PoD can be beaten even without getting around the equipment limitation. But you almost certainly want two wizards in the party, you need to exploit a few tricks that neutralize enemies like dragons pretty effectively, and you have to be willing to spend a lot of time casting prep spells and resting wherever the game gives you an opportunity.

I’ve forgotten some of my combat savvy over the years, but we should have enough collective experience to help pull you through.

If memory serves, my “standard” party was Paladin, Ranger, dwarven Fighter/Thief, Cleric, Magic User, dual-classed X/Magic User(where X could either be fighter, ranger, or in one memorable case, cleric). Making it through PoD with only one mage is considerably more difficult.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
The main advantage to ye olde bow and arrow in PoR is that a character with poor STR but high DEX (need 16-18) receives a bonus to hit, and that bows have a rate of fire of 2 shots per round. In a game where your PCs are going to be taking one swing per round most of the time, this is an improvement. Given that very early in the game, you can expect maybe 40-50% hit chances, this is an even bigger improvement.

In later games bows are mainly useful when you can't attack in melee, at least until they introduce the Fine Long Bow which allows characters to add their strength bonus to damage from the bow. Coupled with high + arrows you can easily expect to deal 30+ damage if you hit with both arrows. Of course, high level fighters receive two melee attacks per round, so you may still be saving bows for when you aren't able to melee.

As for Lightning Bolt, its two advantages over Fireball:
1. You can't hurt fire immune enemies with fire.
2. Fireball can't hit a target twice.

For bouncing off walls, you want to set up a 90 degree angle with the wall if possible. The bolt then does a 180 and returns the way it came. Count squares to make sure you don't catch the caster in the returning bolt. Bouncing is easier too against huge enemies (2 X 2 size).

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

JustJeff88 posted:

The general rule for missile weapons through 2e was "bow if you can, sling if you can't (in other words, you are a cleric or mage), crossbows are shite" Given that most D&D games were made during that era of tabletop, it translates into the CRPGs.

The other "rule" is that fireball beats lightning bolt in every video game except for the side-scrolling Tower of Doom/Shadow over Mystara, where Lightning Bolt fills half the screen and wrecks everything and Fireball is roughly the equivalent of a bird going plop on someone's shoes.

People also forget that as-written, Fireball fills to express its full volume, spreading out if, for example, there's a 10' ceiling. It fills 33,000 cubic feet. Setting it off in a cave system is a good way to catch the entire party.

That's not the most crazy 1E spell. Faerie Fire has an area of effect of 12 linear feet per caster level. It's easy to compute what gets effected... if you know what "linear feet" are. In the pre-Internet era, that was non-trivial unless you had an engineer in your play group (which, to be fair, was not uncommon).

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
If memory serves, you can get four maps in the game that help you navigate the hedge maze.

Also, if you can take the fighters without the dust, the dragon fight is actually trivially easy as long as you don’t lose initiative. 1E dragons have breath weapons whose full damage is their full hp (so the breath always does 80 electrical, save for half).

But it takes an action for the dragon to breathe. If you give an enemy that hasn’t acted yet an attack of opportunity by moving away from it, it loses its action that combat round. Because the bite attack does much less damage than the breath or full attack sequence, you can use this trick to keep depriving the dragon of its actions until you kill it.

In later encounters against lots of dragons, you can use the same trick by running one well-armored character around triggering AoOs to keep them all from using breath weapons. Sadly, some foes (like many wizards) don’t have an equipped weapon and this trick won’t work on them.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Chokes McGee posted:

This has not been my experience in Gold Box. Most of the time they just up and blast you in the face as an alternate action. Maybe I'm just not observant idk

e: Also I'm pretty sure AoO doesn't consume your action because I've had multiple people turn their backs on the same characters that get actions in later rounds and still get shanked. Again, for all I know, this could be the C64 version or something that's completely uncharted waters or even a difference from game to game. The Gold Box series is many things but consistently coded for quality is not one of them.

This absolutely works in the PC Gold Box (only on monsters, not PCs, because enemies running away won't have this effect at all). You can get fooled sometimes because it isn't always clear when the new round has begun if you don't keep track of who went first in the combat. You must go prior to the monster's turn in each round and trigger its AoO.

Should be easy to test to see if it works in other versions. Load up a save, trigger a fight, write down the name of the first PC to go, kill all but one monster, and try it to see whether the monster gets to act in the same round as it takes an AoO.

Depending on whether they were using development tools or direct coding, I'm imagining someone using tools to craft the final battle seeing "2" and typing "20" by mistake. Even with good QA, the last battle of the game is always going to receive the least amount of testing.

And yes, it is possible to take the Dust of Disappearance into the next game, where you can use it to accomplish something somewhat amusing that you're unlikely to manage without it.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Randalor posted:

Oh old-school D&D, when a late game fighter's role was "Walk up to the enemy spell caster or magic effect user and punch them hard". Look at those saves! 75% chance to shrug off most effects, and better than 50% baseline overall. Not like nowadays, with your "Three saves tied to stats" and "Fighter-mans not good at resisting magic" and "wizards breaking the fundamental laws of reality at a whim". Back in my day...

Yes, but it's not as funny when you walk up to the Evil High Priest, who casts Harm, makes a successful to-hit on you, and reduces you to 1d4 hp, no save.

Or you roll a "1" on a save and are instantly dead, or petrified, or disintegrated. None of this "the first save isn't instantly fatal" crap.

And you may not be remembering some of the high level spells available to magic-users and illusionists, one of which is literally called Alter Reality.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

PurpleXVI posted:

You're also missing that pre-3rd edition, any time a caster got hit before they got their spell off... spell lost, wasted, and many of the bigger, badder spells required a full turn to cast or had really nasty speed penalties. So if a Fighter had a bow, or just got up close to a mage, there was a good chance they'd never be casting anything at all. Also keep in mind that high-level casters had no bonuses to making their spells stick at all, while saving throws for high-level characters and high-HD monsters kept getting better all the time, so against tougher enemies your save-or-suck/die spells were very unlikely to stick, and you were much better off relying on raw damage... which fighters, gee, were pretty good at dealing with, too!

And don't forget that mages didn't get bonus spells for high Int either, and need to pre-memorize all their spells for the day. If they get caught in a situation they're not prepared for... well gee whiz, they can't just quickly respec their spells, they gotta hide behind the beef wall.

Fighters get pretty much all the main tools they had in a regular 1e game in this Gold Box series, while the spellcasters get a pretty restricted subset of their usual stuff. Try playing PoD with a party with no wizards and then try again with a party of three wizards and no fighters/rangers/paladins, and then tell me that wizards are underpowered compared to fighters in 1e.

But the original post was a “back in my day” joke. 3e/Pathfinder is the high-water mark of overpowered spellcasters. 1e is just massively unbalanced in terms of spell power at the same level, unforgiving with its effects, and tended to devolve into “I have a 5% chance to fail this save” at high levels.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
Slings get one shot per round for 1d4 damage. A magic sling adds its bonus to hit and damage.

Long bows get two shots per round, either against the same target or at a second target if you kill the first. They deal 1d6 damage. Magic bows and magic arrows exist. They are strictly superior weapons but not only do they require two hands, they need ammo. Early in the series, you buy arrows in bundles of 20, each of which takes an inventory slot. But you can merge them. Into stacks with a maximum size of 255 arrows. Which does not divide evenly by 20. Also, arrow stacks with different magical plusses can’t be merged.

In short, they aren’t worth messing with if you mind the extra logistics except for when the Fine Long Bow is introduced, which allows its user to apply their strength damage modifier. By that point, whoever gets the bow will do more damage with the bonus than with the die, and it’s worth messing with arrow management for that.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Chokes McGee posted:

gently caress

BLADES'

ENDGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME :byodood:

I consider the SotSB final boss fight to be the most disappointingly easy of the whole Gold Box era. That may be because the game is brutally punishing on the way there.

Then again, I love the enhanced draconians in Dark Queen of Krynn because it was so restful watching them blow each other up in a chain reaction.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

PurpleXVI posted:

Fire Shield and Dimension Door could be useful to dual/multi-classed mages, though. Say Sterrn, once he recovers his thiefy skills, could cast Fire Shield, then Dimension Door behind some enemies to flank them and get his stab on, while also roasting them if they should get so lucky as to land a hit on him. Would probably be better if the base class was Fighter rather than Thief, of course.

Seyzer: I think you're thinking of Otiluke's Resilient Sphere.

Also gently caress, I was just gonna say: "How refreshing! An FR game without Elminster's useless mary sue rear end hanging around!"

Don’t really need Dim Door to get the job done.

Also, recall how there’s an exploit that involves provoking opportunity attacks to deprive enemies of their actions? A fighter/mage with Fire Shield can also damage all those suckers.

Fumble has a slow effect if the target MAKES its saving throw. Still not a good spell, though.

Minor Globe is critically important as a prep spell for big fights. Just be sure to cast it last, or it will prevent your other 1-3rd level prep spells from working on the wizard.

Confusion imposes a penalty to enemy saves. Once you get a feel for the AoE, it can be an effective way to deprive enemies of actions. Not so crucial in some battles, but some enemies in these games are really nasty if they get to go. Ice Storm’s effectiveness drops off as monster hp goes up because it doesn’t increase damage with your level like Fireball does, though almost nothing resists the damage. Confusion is extremely useful against crowds of high hp foes like giants.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Chokes McGee posted:

I'm still :stare: at blade barrier, honestly. Looking forward to that one in Pools.

I will admit to casting blade barrier on enemies that were in stinking clouds and helpless instead of just slaying them with a single blow.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Chokes McGee posted:

Oh no worries, Bard's Tale is easy to get through, I just need to pfffft hhahahahahhahahah I'm doomed

That series got just inches away from “every map is dark, filled with spinners or random teleports, and all encounters are with powerful monsters whose numbers require the use of exponents to display.” The hint books were pretty well written, though.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Chokes McGee posted:

I have played Wizardry and Bard's Tale.

This is not that.

This is... something else. Something darker. More powerful.

I was describing Bard’s Tale.

PoD is more along the lines of every fourth encounter being about like the big “end of dungeon” encounters in previous games, and cramming about thirty or forty endgame encounters in, including as “end of dungeon” encounters.

If you are stumbling around unsure where the safe places to rest are, it’s even worse. One particular adventuring area is especially horrible if you don’t know what you’re supposed to be doing. (Let’s just say that it is very much not a Fantastic Journey.)

Also, I considered PoD fun at the time it was released. In retrospect, I can only conclude I had far too much time on my hands and far too few well-designed PC games as alternatives (though in its defense, there were a lot of comparatively awful CRPGs at the time). It plays reasonably fair, it is just a grind and relies far too much on the player using spells unstintingly in many encounter areas and resting between encounters. To call it “immersion breaking” now is a massive understatement.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
So the Drow have 1E Magic Resistance. This is expressed as a percentage chance to resist magic cast by an 11th level spellcaster. The chance to resist drops by 5% for every level above 11th and increases by 5% for every level below it, meaning that a 7th level caster trying to affect a drow with 50% MR will only succeed 30% of the time.

An interesting wrinkle is that magic items which cast spells also have a caster level. That drow’s MR is only 5% against a 20th level spellcaster, but will remain effective against spells from wands, which are usually much lower caster level.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Alpha3KV posted:

Casting resist fire on the character who goes for the chests in the salamander sauna will prevent them from taking damage. On a similar subject, efreeti are not immune to fire, though they're probably supposed to be.

Also very useful when going into an encounter against a fire-breathing dragon. If memory serves, later games have a lightning-breathing dracolich, which is a bit more of a problem. Clerics get resist spells for fire and cold, and rangers eventually get druid spells to protect against fire, too. Electricity is tougher; chlorine gas and acid there's no effective resistance at all.

Guess what black dragons breathe?

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

achtungnight posted:

Mention of these events demands a Realms Lore update.

The Flight of the Dragons was a big event in Forgotten Realms history where a large group of dragons ran wild and attacked cities all over the Moonsea region. They did a lot of damage, but apparently not enough to satisfy the developers. It was followed by a rampage of psychotic gods a few years later (the Time of Troubles), and after that by magic itself going wild (the Spellplague). Fortunately for our party, neither of the latter events are addressed in Gold Box Games.

A dragon killing a witch in Shadowdale happened in Azure Bonds' backstory. Alias recalls knowing Sylune, the witch in question, and travels to Shadowdale in part to renew acquaintances. When she arrives, she sadly learns the witch was killed by an attacking dragon a while back. Elminster is on hand to give her some of the answers she needs though.

As for a dragon killing a god in Westgate, that happened also. And it was a red dragon, just like with Sylune. But not Crimdrac- the event in question happened in Azure Bonds and involved a dragon called Misteparadnecles Hai Draco (I may or may not be spelling the first name correctly). And I can't say any more about it right now due to spoilers, so for the present let's leave it at that.

Mistinarperadnacles. (I looked it up.)

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
Pretty sure that symbol of pain imposes a to-hit penalty on the party for that fight. I think it’s a -4 to hit. Since the drow has AC -7 already, it’s bad times.

The fight is winnable without landing a Hold Person. You definitely have to prep up after resting: for example, doing Bless and Prayer give you a slightly better chance to hit with weapons. This is also one of the few times Fumble is useful (if you get past the drow’s MR). If memory serves, you can also cast fire shield and the Drow will murder your wizard and himself at the same time.

IIRC the Test of the Sphere is bugged in such a way that it’s easier to win with a lower-level magic user.

Multiple fights in this dungeon reward use of Lightning Bolt, including that Owlbear battle. Having a dedicated archer helps make that final battle a bit easier. But Ice Storm is indeed the correct solution because Nitwit the mage doesn’t have a lot of hp.

It’s also possible to sequence break and deal with this dungeon after you’ve dealt with at least one other bond-holder, which makes several fights easier (including the dragon fight).

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Chokes McGee posted:

Technically speaking it's not sequence breaking! There's there bonds quests that are required and you can do them in any order. In theory.

The game certainly permits it, but Mr. Clue Guy at the Standing Stones tells you to go this way first.

If you don't cast preps going into the dragon fight, multiple fireballs are indeed the solution. If you do, a hasted fighter can use the attack of opportunity bug to keep the dragons from breathing until you can kill them all. They have pretty low hp so it doesn't take very many attack spells to finish them off.

According to GameBanshee, the reward is 5000 pp, 15 gems, and 10 pieces of jewelry, but the big deal is that it's a huge chunk of experience. They report receiving it with only the egg, not having beating the dragon fight.

You don't meet Silk in her room: she's supposed to appear at the bottom of the stairs from the tower into the caves, on the cave map.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
Lightning bolt is handy in those close-quarters fights as you can hit all those wizards and clerics on the diagonal.

OTOH, it is worse than useless against Shambling Mounds, who grow when struck with electricity. Hold and Stinking Cloud is prettu much your best bet, plus Magic Missile. Ice Storm will do AoE damage that hurts them, but not nearly as much as Fireball if it worked.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

ddegenha posted:

Slugs have been the Worst since Sword of Hope. That said, I think in some of the later Gold Box games you could trick the system by dropping a heal spell on someone who was knocked down before ending the fight in sequential fights like this. Wonder if that works in this version?

Also...

I DEMAND to speak with your MANAGER!

Healing non-dead PCs who fell to 0 hp in mid-combat has, to my memory, been a feature in all the Gold Box games, and I don’t think it is a bug.

Of course, if your cleric falls in mid-combat, this becomes trickier as potions can’t be used on other characters. Another reason that paladins are useful, as running with multiple clerics isn’t as obviously useful as having multiple magic users.

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Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Chokes McGee posted:

I disagree on both counts! At least in PoR, using cure light wounds will not pop a guy back up automatically. It will probably get them back for the next fight in chains, though.

Also, Potions of Extra Healing can be used on other characters in combat (they basically cast Cure Moderate Wounds) and have up to three uses.

On point one, I’m saying that healing in combat A means they are conscious in combat B, not A.

I don’t think I ever used potions in combat, so I’ll happily admit to error in that.

And this is the first I heard of that Cause Light Wounds bug to revive a dead character.

Oh, and creepy puppets have a pedigree in D&D.

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