Into the Chokesverse: Let's Play SSI Gold Box Forgotten Realms

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Into the Chokesverse: Let's Play SSI Gold Box Forgotten Realms

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

dbcooper posted:

technically the 10 and 8 would put skullcrusher into the average/normal range for all humans in AD&D attribute terms. It may be low compared to the A-team values of your merry band of adventures, but he's not a drooling idiot or anything.

10 is definitely completely normal human average in all versions of D&D. My AD&D is a bit rusty, but I thought an 8 was slightly below average even there, and average was more like 9 to 11. 8 Int is a bit slow, but not colossally stupid or anything.

My gaming group one time had a party where the average Int was so high that a 12-14 was considered dumb. One of the characters was so arrogant and elitist about Int scores that he'd mercilessly mock anyone below 16-18. I shudder to think what would have happened if we'd had a party member with actually sub-par intellect.

TheGreatEvilKing posted:

If I recall correctly, weights drain levels on hit, no save.

You will never willingly fight undead in AD&D.

God drat, I keep forgetting how hostile older D&D editions were to players. My groups mock how broken the game balance is in 3rd Edition, but it really did a lot to make the game more playable compared to its predecessors.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2019 20:28

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# ¿ May 8, 2024 23:03

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

I'd absolutely believe that there's no save on level drain in some edition of D&D, because the older editions are full of bullshit like that. There are a few "just die, no save" effects in older D&D editions, IIRC.

3e has it so that stuff that would cause you to lose a level in older editions instead gave you a "negative level", which applied a penalty to most things you tried to do (basically any d20 roll), and could be removed by a successful saving throw 24 hours later, failure on that saving throw being the point where you actually lose the character level. So the wight still inflicted negative levels without giving you a saving throw up front, but you weren't suddenly one level behind everyone else just because the enemy hit you, and you could still get a Restoration or Greater Restoration cast to clear it at any point before you actually lost the level.

Pathfinder does away with the "lose a level", making negative levels (the aforementioned penalty to rolls) potentially permanent if you fail the save (but still curable with the proper spells).

4th Edition D&D does away with that kind of crap entirely; there are no level-draining or negative level effects in the game, AFAIK. Wights steal healing surges instead.

# ¿ Nov 1, 2019 05:16

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

It's like how Baldur's Gate II has classes from 3rd Edition D&D, which was released about the same time, but still runs on 2nd Edition rules.

# ¿ Nov 1, 2019 18:58

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

Chokes McGee posted:

I feel inclined to forgive BioWare because it seems more like a case of simultaneous development than any laziness on their part. BG2 released in September 2000, and the best info I could get on 3E is "Fall 2000", which matches up with my recollections of reading playtest docs and the SRD back in Graphic Design class my senior year of high school. They literally came out within a month or two of each other.

# ¿ Nov 1, 2019 22:18

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

Chokes McGee posted:

And that�s really good because it could�ve made the game Early Bards Tale levels of bad.

Apparently from what one poster was saying over in the RPG thread, Bard's Tale 4 is even worse with that kind of BS, and it was released in 2018.

Kacie posted:

Cause Blindness is another save-or-die, much like Hold Person. The difference being that Hold Person wears off in a few rounds, and Cause Blindness...doesn't. It's a curse, duration permanent, and you need Cure Blindness. I don't know what the penalty to THACO is, but in 3.x it was definitely unfriendly; my paladin learned that the hard way in a fight with evil clerics.

In 3.x, you just roll percentile dice alongside your attack. If you roll poorly on this, you miss, regardless of the number on your attack roll. You just have a straight-up 50% chance of automatically missing.

In 4e, it's I think -5 to hit?

# ¿ Nov 14, 2019 05:18

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

Here's the link to the DW3 LP.

# ¿ Nov 25, 2019 03:53

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

I maintain that D&D has been moving in a generally forwards direction through the editions, at least up to 4e, the last one I have any experience with. 1e was a confusing mess that 2e built on top of. 3e might not be the best balanced, but imo they did the right thing by tossing out all the old cruft and starting from scratch. 4e got the balancing issue almost right.

# ¿ Nov 26, 2019 22:00

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

Randalor posted:

Wait, I thought that the once-per-day effects all had "on a miss, this deals half damage", which was still usually more than the basic or encounter move damages (barring lovely rolls)

Almost all dailies in 4e are of one of three varieties; the majority deal half damage on a miss and/or have an "Effect" line, which takes effect whether you hit or miss with the power. Some have the "Reliable" keyword, which means they're not expended when you miss with them. Some just take effect, and don't even have you making an attack roll; most of these are Conjurations (which plop down a thing that does stuff on its own), Summons (which create a pseudo-creature you can command with your actions), or Stances (which grant a benefit to the user until the end of the encounter or until they use another power with the "Stance" keyword).

There are a very small number of daily powers that do just miss when you roll poorly, though. IIRC, most of those grant multiple attacks. One Hundred Knives (a rogue power that allows you to make three attack rolls) and Blade Cascade (an attack-until-you-miss ranger power) were two that I could come up with quickly.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2019 17:18

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

The Disenchanter is a camel-like monster with an anteater snout that ate the magic from your gear. IIRC, if it ate some magic, it healed or became stronger or something like that. It existed in 3e and earlier, right up until Wizards realized nobody wants to lose their hard-earned gear to an unlucky die roll.

# ¿ Nov 28, 2019 03:06

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

achtungnight posted:

Koval Mansion is a fun level, more so with a bad Thief than a skilled one. The scrolls are very much worth the trip.

I wonder how long Chokes will delay the Graveyard mission...

What level does Shanna have to be to vaporize zombies with a glance?

# ¿ Dec 4, 2019 22:06

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

Knowing early ed. D&D, there's probably a chart you roll on where the PCs actions have only a slight effect on the outcome. Or yes, they just flat-out expect you to actually run a combat with 200+ participants. OG D&D had a lot of BS like that.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2019 01:25

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

PurpleXVI posted:

Personally I'd just stat large groups of similar troops as single creatures, it seems like the simple and abstracted way of dealing with it.

(or completely ignore all the large mobs of dudes smashing into each other and choo-choo the players into an epic battle with the enemy general and his cronies/evil summoned whatevers at the center of the battlefield and then the entire battle hinges on whether they slap him down or leg it from the battlefield, with the rest of the battle essentially just as cool background scene setting)

So, late 3.5 introduced the concept of "mobs", which are essentially swarms of creatures that aren't normally large enough to swarm. Pathfinder and 4e iterated on this concept as well (I haven't played 5e, but I'd imagine there's something similar there). Officially, this is how it works in newer editions.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2019 04:21

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

Kobolds may be weak, but a DM who really plays up their racial trapmaking and ambush tactics can make fighting an army of kobolds a daunting task.

But yeah, sometimes letting the PCs enjoy their rightly-earned power and play Dynasty Warriors for a while isn't the worst thing.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2019 07:07

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

I like how the dragon on the boxart in that video isn't so much using his breath weapon as he is shooting a fire laser beam from his mouth.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2020 02:18

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

Truthkeeper posted:

That particular variety of dragon's breath weapon is almost literally a fire laser beam.

Oh, right, Brass (IIRC) dragons do that. I tend to forget about them.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2020 03:07

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

MonsterEnvy posted:

Well they are good dragons. So they tend not to be fought too often.

They're also one of the most boring of the good dragons. Like this is all 3e dragons, but Copper dragons tell dad jokes and play pranks on you if you don't laugh. They also live in deserts and like to eat spiders and scorpions because they think the venom sharpens their wits. Gold dragons love gems as snacks and have an innate spell that lets them know if you have any. Silver dragons can walk on clouds. Why can they walk on clouds? So they can have cool cloud castles, that's why!

In comparison, Brass dragons are just "the chatty ones", because they love to talk.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2020 21:53

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

achtungnight posted:

Let's not forget silver dragons are also the ones who turn into beautiful women attracted to player races. Although I personally wouldn't mind a relationship with a copper, bronze, or gold either. Nor a brass, long as they were fun to chat with and not exasperating. Common interests would probably help with that.

Heck, dating a good dragon is probably cool no matter what type of dragon they are.

This is how you get half-dragons. Do you want half-dragons?

# ¿ Feb 1, 2020 06:29

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

Night10194 posted:

That second bit is the part that never gets discussed. Leveling in D&D games is enough of a hassle without having to occasionally undo it!

Which is why I think the 4e way of inflicting the Weakened status condition (you deal half damage) or just stealing healing surges is much better.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2020 15:15

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

Randalor posted:

I guess my question to you, Chokes, is that was there at any point in the first game where Sternn having 17 Int instead of 15 Int would have changed anything? If not, then C, otherwise C, but with a humorous explanation for why he is slightly smarter now.
I mean, you said you always intended for him to be the mage so no harm, no foul.

Chokes says that you have the opportunity to change the characters' stats when you import them, so he could've fixed the problem when he imported Sternn into the second game. Still would've had to explain the discrepancy, but it could've been something as simple as "Hey, I found this book and now thinking is easier!" (Note: I have no idea if the Tome of Clear Thought exists in the Gold Box games)

# ¿ Mar 1, 2020 14:11

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

I've never had curry, lemon or otherwise, so :shrug:

# ¿ Mar 31, 2020 06:12

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

Heck, both Baldur's Gate 2 and the expansions for Neverwinter Nights did basically the same thing.

# ¿ Apr 12, 2020 22:14

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

achtungnight posted:

Westgate does not appear in this or any other Forgotten Realms game, far as I know.

Dunno if you're specifically talking about the Gold Box games here, but Mysteries of Westgate, a DLC module for Neverwinter Nights 2, heavily features Westgate, at the very least.

# ¿ May 4, 2020 11:14

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

Hobologist posted:

The dark elf mageocracy is Ched Nasad. But I think it was destroyed in some novels I haven't read.

Ched Nasad was destroyed, but it was never run by wizards, that was Sshamath.

# ¿ May 14, 2020 11:12

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

Neigh.

# ¿ May 18, 2020 10:04

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

IIRC, the remakes are of games 2 and 3, it's 1 that didn't get one.

# ¿ Aug 29, 2020 21:13

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

In DND, beholders have an anti-magic cone that emanates from their central eye that can be aimed and is always on. In normal tabletop rules, this would negate, or at least suppress, the invisibility. In 3e, this would also negate the beholder's ability to fire its eye rays at you, and the invisibility would return if you stepped out of the cone, so it wouldn't do too much to the effectiveness of the Dust. In older editions (Gold Box is based off 1e DND, IIRC), it just dispelled the invisibility wholesale, meaning that the beholders could see you even after you left the cone.

Apparently, the developers of the Gold Box decided that coding in an anti-magic cone would be too much :effort:

, and instead just made beholders immune to spells, which is... not really the same thing, as you can see here.

# ¿ Oct 6, 2020 08:10

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

That's why I like the Tome of Battle (and its Pathfinder equivalent Path of War) and Spheres of Might; they give a bit of that to martials.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2020 22:07

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

Yeah, the Dark Alliance look-alike is the only Bard's tale I've played.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2021 22:38

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

As for giants and their magical ability to produce rocks out of thin air, IIRC the editions of D&D that make them rock hucking monsters generally say they're carrying them around in backpacks. They don't just carry rocks in them, but in D&D giants just carry around sacks of rocks. Which I think makes them less truly boulders and more something conveniently sized for a giant to throw, like a rock sized roughly in the neighborhood of a baseball (proportionately). If that suddenly sounds a lot less threatening, think about it this way: they're hucking chunks of rock roughly the size of large bowling balls at roughly Major League fastball speeds. That'll hurt if it hits.

I may have spent too much time thinking about giants throwing rocks. :spergin: