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Why wasn’t Measurehead at the mercenary tribunal?
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Mar 1, 2020 18:07
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 21:52 |
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Au Revoir Shosanna posted:how is the voice acting in this game so good when they're all apparently just random musicians and podcasters I’m really not sure about Ruby, or Korty
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Mar 4, 2020 19:21
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So this is some socially-excluded quarantine brain speaking, but has anyone else noticed how Disco Elysium and Detective Pikachu have major similarities? Both feature an amnesiac supercop named Harry who is trying to discover secrets about himself to heal an emotional rift with a close loved one; a more sober-minded partner who is frequently exasperated by the antics of the primary investigator; AND OF COURSE cryptids. I'm trying to reconcile the governmental systems from both fictions but it seems like the ultraliberals and moralists rule the Pokemon universe. Anyway what kind of pokemon would the characters from DE have with them?
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Mar 18, 2020 18:34
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Glagha posted:I agree Kim's a great character specifically because he has a type (no nonsense, serious cop who is the straight man to your goofiness) but he breaks that occasionally because he's, well, human. The times he indulges some of your nonsense, or lets you try something weird just to see where it goes, or even gets into it himself to go along with all the other times when he's there to clear his throat and give you a "c'mon don't embarrass me" look. It's good. He's good. Game's good. The same things that make Kim endearing to us -- his patience, his humor, his curiosity & care toward others, and gentility while holding others accountable for their actions -- are the same things that make him a good police officer.
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Mar 22, 2020 18:56
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Fister Roboto posted:Poor guy spends the entirety of the (really excellent) video calling the city "Rechavol" And this is like, the only game that I have ever seen that provides a pronunciation guide during loading screens
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May 16, 2020 02:44
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I live in Seattle and the area that police fled away from is now basically like crowded Martinaise -- a weird neglected pocket of society with a powerful but fractured revolutionary group & the powers of capitalism waiting and hoping it all falls apart. Pretty neat & I'm wearing my piss****** jacket every day now
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Jun 10, 2020 04:03
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Which, in her portrait, seems to indicate that she's a Moralist at heart (the white) and Measurehead is the main communist influence on her (the red) but his race ideology is actually making her kind of a nationalist/fascist (the yellow-orange highlights). In contrast, Measurehead's portrait has a moderate amount of red but a kind of dull green-olive dominates. I kind of feel like green in portrait backgrounds is something like "self-interested," you see it on Korty, Rene, and faintly on a few other folks.
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Jul 29, 2020 17:36
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Yellow and yellow-orange is usually nationalism or fascism but I think it's broadly applied as "in-group tribalism." It shows up on Rene's outfit and of course on the Suzerainty flag, which is seen both in Garry's room and his portrait and means Revachol uber alles for both of them. That doesn't fit very well for Cindy the Skull but I think the yellow represents her gang allegiance. I think the portraits are all intentional but the system isn't "symmetrical," in that color is more important in some images while patterns, contrasting elements, and facial expressions are more important in others. I think the Pawn Shop guy is all yellowy because he's hopped up on drugs & looking at the soothing lights inside his shop, not because he's a nationalist. On the other hand you get the Man From Hjelmdall shirt there & that's clearly signaled as being For Reactionaries. Evrart's portrait is fuckin brilliant -- I love what JustaDamnFool said about how the red is "peeling" but I was rather thinking it's a red that was quickly/hastily painted on, echoing how outside of Evart's office you've got Leonard painting on all the Wild Pines containers. I think that Evrart is sincerely not "in it" for profit, which is a concept tied to liberalism, and he's really in it for his own community. For Martinaise. He doesn't care about workers all over the world, he cares about the workers who live on his street. It's a bright deep red color because he's committed, but the fascist elements of his ideology can be seen in how he thinks he knows what's better for the people who live on the beach. Probably my favorite part of Evrart's portrait is how the yellow part also looks like a fire with smoke coming out of it -- the revolution! -- which he positions himself as the public face in front of. To the people of Martinaise, the player represents civil authority, and others who have gone to speak with Evrart represent the forces of capital. Evrart interposes himself between these state/corporate authorities and the communards, so that the revolution can occur in his backyard. edit:  putting this here because I'm gonna go off on this stuff again soon
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Jul 31, 2020 04:16
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I think Harry has a specific ideology before the game starts because there's a lot of things he does that can't be changed: he works for the state either as a gym teacher or a cop, he wants to have a home and a family, and he's got a flawed relationship with Dora that eventually drives him into being an alcoholic workaholic. Harry's background is the colors of the Revachol flag (the flag's colors fit the city's ideology: liberalism and nationalism, for the most part) and he's straight up the chosen one of the city herself, who someday needs to save the city from being destroyed by a nuke -- on the portrait there's this white "aura" between Harry & Revachol itself, and that's moralism/Dora/the madonna-whore complex that Harry carries around. I don't think of it as an actual aura, though -- the white shape around him looks more like he was cut and pasted from another layer in Photoshop. Harry's out of place in the city because he's living an existence entirely based on all that Dora stuff, and that's why it looks like he was cut and pasted into the city. He's wildly out of place, and especially because he's either an amnesiac or pretending to be one.
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Jul 31, 2020 05:25
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Yeah. And like, sorry Arrhy but that's what I think about the Egghead portrait, I think it's just a dude who has light blasting out of his head because HARD CORE TO THE MEGA -- like, I do think that black in Andre & Noid's portraits represents cynicism or nihilism (and in a few other portraits like Jean and Pissf****t and Ruby and so on) and in contrast Egghead's face kind of emerges from this dark space that's at the bottom of his portrait but I don't think that was an "idea" choice as much as an image composition choice.
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Jul 31, 2020 06:32
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But like, to support Knuc's point, why isn't there red on Harry's portrait because my Harry is hella communist? I honestly don't think that's an important part of his life before this adventure. I can't remember Jean or Judit making any comments about him being a communist during the ending, but I remember other posters talking about it. If it's just Jean, then I feel comfortable disregarding his take on Harry's ideology because he says lots of poo poo that's entirely based on his experience of being stuck in a seemingly never-ending series of traumatic group projects with a partner who both carries him & makes his life terrible.
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Jul 31, 2020 06:48
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I think it's really hard to create the sort of incentive with mechanics that is needed for substance abuse -- gameplay is always guided by this sense of "seeking advantages" and you can't communicate "this substance objectively makes you a worse person"* at the same time that you communicate "you really really wanna do the substance." Like when I was trying to quit smoking in college, I might have designed "smoking a cigarette" as "lowering max HP by 1" if I was trying to develop mechanics that modeled my life. Nobody intentionally makes the choice to lower their stats in a game when roleplaying/otherwise playing "authentically," though some people might make choices like that to do challenge runs or to prove a point. Doesn't work for modeling addiction, because it's a disincentive so maybe we try a different mechanic: Smoking a cigarette "lowers max HP by 1, increases focus for 5 minutes." Better because it's a double-edged choice, but mostly people aren't going to use this as soon as they see that the long-term penalties add up & the short-term benefits don't last. The people who DO use this effectively might be metagaming and only lower their max HP to an acceptable threshold, using the temporary benefits to overcome the specific skill checks that are needed. The closest real-life example of this is the sort of person who says "I'm only going to smoke cigarettes until I turn 25, then I'm going to quit so that I can't get cancer." This is nonsense in real life, and nonsense in a game unless you're only concerned about game mechanics. You could instead model this as, "lowers max HP by 1, gives you lore/story events you wouldn't otherwise get if you weren't smoking." This is an interesting choice (one that can be paired with the previous option) but there's issues: it highlights addiction purely as a choice thing, which is ignorant of the real world/brain chemistry/etc and detracts from the narrative in the ways you're all describing (it doesn't feel like you're roleplaying a real addict because you just don't partake of any substances). What the game does well (and we've talked about this in this thread multiple times, I defer to anyone else who wrote about this): no matter what you're still an addict at the end of the game. You can clean up for a day, three days, a week, a month, a year, a decade, whatever -- you're always an addict, and it's always up to you to be a recovered one, every morning you get up. The Harry that doesn't drink or smoke or do drugs throughout his whole playthrough is still an alcoholic and still abusing speed, no matter what. The mechanics aren't doing much to show you that, and obviously the lore isn't enough to satisfy everyone. And that's okay I guess. * "worse" descriptively in the sense of the internal feelings we have as a result of substance abuse & the way we lose access to things we truly love, not "worse" prescriptively as a moral/ethical judgment of a person who has addiction & can benefit from getting support.
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Sep 28, 2020 21:03
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Regarding traversal, I agree that there's some strong thematic vibes from traveling around & a lot depends on how much you're invested in the feeling of trying to figure out the mystery, versus making linear progress through a set of to-do items (which, as we've discussed here a lot, is something the game identifies as a form of unhelpful sadbrains if it is done unreflectively). The map & list of open skill checks is nice but there could've been a few UI features to smooth it out -- e.g. if you could click on the open skill check list and Harry automatically walks to that location. The developers also could've built around a feature like that by letting you have conversations *while* you're walking somewhere, rather than stopping you to navigate menus. Which doesn't make as much sense when you're clicking from one spot of pavement to another, but if you click "walk to this place across town" I think it's fine to navigate a menu & read text while Harry hoofs it. Like I'm thinking about doing all that poo poo for Evrart and the long hike up to his office, that would've been a good time to reflect on communism with your internals or talk to Kim about something.
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Oct 2, 2020 17:39
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Nefarious 2.0 posted:i've seen a lot of people say this, but i really disagree. the racism is in harry's head already, which is why you have to pass a check to keep it inside. if you say it, then you have to own up to it when you follow kim outside. the conversation with kim is where you can confront your latent racism and and doing so is a meaningful step in becoming a better person. of course, you can also double down it, and if you do that, then you're a monster. Also wanted to acknowledge this because 1) you described something really important but 2) it doesn't land the same for everyone. A white person playing the game, having the option of erasing the racism inherent in their Harry through reloading, is playing the classic neoliberal who won't acknowledge their complicity in structural racism, allowing the idea of "racism is only present in slurs & physical harm" to eclipse more pervasive social inequalities. A POC playing the game who has been through enough conversations like the one Harry and Kim have after that fuckup? They probably don't need to play that scene out. But there's no nuanced solution that can support this scene working out for everyone, and ultimately I think this scene is important enough that it belongs in the game. I don't know what it looks like for videogames to properly tangle with the topic of race: DE depicts racism thoughtful way but doesn't depict anti-racism. There's a lot of reason it doesn't do that or can't do that, and having a fictional history is one of those reasons. Not being able to engage with the player's identity or experiences is another. Harry might be capable of growth and change and that's central to the overall narrative, but where he stands with regards to racism is pretty wide open and unexplored. Dragging around the mug into different conversations is funny but that's some performative woke white folks poo poo if I've ever seen it. Dealing with Measurehead's racism is uncomfortable because he might have an objectively hosed up ideology but "look at you, hypocrite colonized dude -- you have fake ideas because you weren't even born in the culture that you really belong to" is loving toxic if you imagine someone applying that to real-world contemporary race issues. Standing up for Kim is fraught because is this out of inherent goodness? or is it because Harry is desperate for positive attention and treating Kim well is more about his own feelings (like most white people and their relationships with POC)?
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Oct 13, 2020 21:01
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and Measurehead doesn't even have a Semenese accent
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Nov 24, 2020 02:06
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I might too but I don't want a loving box, or a vinyl statue, I just want the art book & to materially support people who brought me joy
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Dec 11, 2020 02:45
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What if they're all just the same guy as our limbic/lizard brain?
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Dec 11, 2020 03:00
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MrMidnight posted:More like $275 after shipping It's like 294 in the US w/ taxes but who's counting really
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Dec 11, 2020 07:02
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Hot takes on the new art (and the originals for reference): Espirit du Corps is an improvement because of the expression in the eyes -- they're more consistently tired and skeptical. The bottom set of eyes in the original picture is different in expression to a degree that it makes the picture less cohesive: it's as though these shadowy faces just happened to see you. The new picture makes me feel like I'm being investigated. Shivers isn't too different but I really dig how the white highlights at the bottom look like lights from a building reflected on water, it's just dope. Authority looked better in the original version though. With the sides of the crown highlighted, it looks like wings and has this Olympian athlete / god vibe that meshes well with the self-assured tone of this skill's dialogue. Being backlit also makes it seem like the person in the picture is getting really up in your face just like a loving cop. The new version is just going to make it confusing because they call an entirely different skill the crownhead, and Volition looks cool but doesn't look as much like a crownhead as this guy. Empathy looks beautiful cleaned up like this but Perception looks worse -- I'm not wild about the old version, but I thought that having indistinct shapes was intended, because you could be perceiving buildings, limbs, streets, etc. in there. Reaction Speed has way less motion to it this way! It's "cleaner" but just looks like a three faced dude. I didn't like the Suggestion change until Fister Roboto pointed out that it looks like Cuno but the kid has like no Suggestion in-game -- Cunoesse does, instead.
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Dec 30, 2020 05:37
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I think there's a few other things wrapped in the notion of "pre-9/11" and "post-9/11" art -- and I'd also argue that a lot of people still live in & create art in a pre-9/11 mindset. And of course there's games/films/shows/books made before 2001 that qualify as "post-9/11 art." The key thing is globalization, both as a theme within fiction and as a real-world economic force. Before 9/11 it's much easier to make a film or a show and sprinkle vague impressions of international conflicts into it: let's say a movie protagonist gets on a plane which is taken over by some terrorist. In the 90s, the audience isn't curious or worried about where that terrorist is from, it's just this vague idea of "somebody is angry out there, there's violent people for some reason" and the notion doesn't have to get explored any further. Creative executive figures care about how well this movie will do in the international market but primarily they're making films for white middle class suburban families in the USA / secondarily, other developed Westernized countries. The end-of-history mindset that Doc Hawkins mentioned earlier is an ideology that ignores or whitewashes the causes for violence or poverty seen outside the target market -- here in the developed world, we've evolved past these primitive conflicts, we like to have nice picket fences and nuclear families but THEY want to build their fences out of old rocket launchers and commit fratricide over the ownership of chickens. 9/11 forced people to take a stand on their beliefs about globalization: as an event it said, "Western financial institutions are the cause of violence & poverty in the post-colonial world," and the consequence is that the art we make has to agree/disagree/otherwise engage with that statement. Now you can't make a vague reference to a terrorist in fiction without prompting the audience to ask, "what kind of terrorist?" Now you can't make a film about dumb foreigners coming to the USA and misunderstanding everything about contemporary caplitalist culture without a political undercurrent or agenda. The other thing is that 9/11 occurred in the midst of a global consumer market shift. Things aren't just made for target audiences in the USA anymore. Look at how, just recently, another Eastern European gaming company opted not to sell a videogame in the US (or wherever) because it might negatively affect their Chinese market access. This kind of political-economic maneuvering has always been around, but more for poo poo like strategic national resources and less for consumer goods (though there's some great historical case studies like tea or silk). Disco Elysium is a post-9/11 fiction because Revachol is Frankenstein's Globalized Monster -- a fictional city where the losers of the cold war have been stapled onto the page next to the World Trade Center; a central hub of global trade that sends out violent "peacekeeping" forces to maintain market superiority but also a dirty backwater that receives the same violence. In 2002 I would never have imagined someone creating a story where the terrorists and the capitalists were living in each others' pockets like this, making the human relationships between people of different ideologies and the socioeconomic forces in the world equally believable. But that's what Revachol does, for sure. It's probably the most explicitly "post-9/11" piece of art in the medium of video games, in no small part because it signals that its own 9/11 is still coming.
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Jan 3, 2021 20:49
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Eason the Fifth posted:That's a fantastic answer, thanks for writing all that up. It also seems fair to state (probably obviously) that the democratization of the internet during the same era was a massive compounding factor? I would think so, yeah.
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Jan 4, 2021 00:51
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So can you bring Cuno to the church scene?!?
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Mar 24, 2021 05:31
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 21:52 |
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I know the vibe on this forum is more for funny thread titles, but I would be partial to Disco Elysium - Un jour je serai de retour près de toi
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Mar 30, 2021 18:33
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