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It’s already hilarious and it hasn’t even aired yet
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Oct 12, 2023 21:09
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let's make sure to check back with them after the special is out and see if it goes even higher than 10.
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Oct 12, 2023 21:14
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Uuuuuuugh.
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Oct 12, 2023 22:54
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Sir Lemming posted:There's room for an incisive commentary about studios cynically cashing in on the legitimate need/desire for diverse casting while being so creatively bankrupt that they're still just retreading the same old IPs (mostly created by white men) with a colorful coat of paint. Maybe, the problem is that 99% of people whining about this sort of thing are usually in the vein of "omg a black/gay character exists and isn't a white person they only did this for some diversity quota" and I have no faith in these people to understand this nuanced issue.
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Oct 12, 2023 23:05
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I think the problem is more like what Disney is doing with the new Snow White. Which, you have to admit, is ridiculous. Instead of just making new IP, they are altering old IP in weird ways to appeal to everyone and end up appealing to not many.
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Oct 13, 2023 00:08
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socialsecurity posted:Maybe, the problem is that 99% of people whining about this sort of thing are usually in the vein of "omg a black/gay character exists and isn't a white person they only did this for some diversity quota" and I have no faith in these people to understand this nuanced issue. "i am certain that the people who i trivialize and refuse to apply a nuanced perspective to are they themselves trivializing and refusing to apply nuanced perspective to the thing i care about!" put another way: chatgpt posted:The statement you provided seems to involve the use of a straw man fallacy. A straw man fallacy occurs when someone misrepresents or exaggerates their opponent's argument or position in order to make it easier to attack or dismiss. In this case, the speaker is suggesting that people who criticize the inclusion of diverse characters in media are typically making a simplistic argument about diversity quotas, which may not accurately represent the range of concerns and opinions that people actually have. This misrepresentation allows the speaker to dismiss the opposing viewpoint without engaging with the real arguments or concerns. AI is the loving best lol bard posted:Based on the information provided the following fallacy (or fallacies) are being employed in the statement: ShoogaSlim fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Oct 13, 2023 |
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Oct 13, 2023 00:32
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Yeah, I think the problem isn't diversity of race/gender/whatever, the problem is diversity as a gimmick. Let's make the cast diverse and pretty much stop the effort there. It's just bog standard low-effort corporate board room profiteering. People complained about black elves in that Lord of the Rings show that came our recently but I'm pretty sure that show would have sucked the same amount of rear end with an all white male cast.
delightful fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Oct 13, 2023 |
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Oct 13, 2023 00:40
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I'm not speaking to anybody in particular here, but please don't post like we're not in a middle of a giant loving culture war against everybody but rich white men whose chief loving weapon — and one that has always, always, always worked — is dog whistling.
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Oct 13, 2023 00:43
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LividLiquid posted:I'm not speaking to anybody in particular here, but please don't post like we're not in a middle of a giant loving culture war against everybody but rich white men whose chief loving weapon — and one that has always, always, always worked — is dog whistling. i have absolutely no idea how this applies to the conversation at hand. you don't have to aim ambiguously. i'm more than happy to be the target of your critique if you help me understand what you're trying to say. i'm genuinely curious.
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Oct 13, 2023 00:48
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LividLiquid posted:I'm not speaking to anybody in particular here, but please don't post like we're not in a middle of a giant loving culture war against everybody but rich white men whose chief loving weapon — and one that has always, always, always worked — is dog whistling. I agree with this. My point is more capitalism gonna capitalism. Least effort for most profit, only the culture war is now (somewhat) impeding that so we're probably going to see a wave of "look this is classic cinema/tv" with all white people and male leads for a bit before things return to a sort of mean/average.
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Oct 13, 2023 00:50
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ShoogaSlim posted:i have absolutely no idea how this applies to the conversation at hand. you don't have to aim ambiguously. i'm more than happy to be the target of your critique if you help me understand what you're trying to say. i'm genuinely curious. But that's more the feeling I'm getting than anything anybody's said.
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Oct 13, 2023 01:00
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my whole mindset is that south park built its popularity on taking shots at what's at the center of the popular zeitgeist. right now AI and inclusive remakes is and has been the lowest hanging fruit. i just asked bard for current cultural topics, and this is what it spit out:
south park has either already partially or fully touched on much of the above. i doubt they'd do a ukraine thing, but even that's not off the table. so what else is really there to make a special about? they dragged the whole weed thing out longer than anyone wanted them to, and episodes of the kids just being kids are few and far between (as much as people seem to wish that wasn't the case, me included).
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Oct 13, 2023 01:17
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ShoogaSlim posted:my whole mindset is that south park built its popularity on taking shots at what's at the center of the popular zeitgeist. right now AI and inclusive remakes is and has been the lowest hanging fruit. Who they choose to mock matters. And the far more deserving target would be people making GBS threads their pants with rage because a woman was in a thing. Like, say they did an episode where Cartman or the rednecks poo poo on Wendy and demand she stop being on the periphery of the gang for being "forced inclusion" or whatever, and the boys not getting it because she's been there the whole fuckin' time. It might not be good, but that would be in the zeitgeist.
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Oct 13, 2023 01:28
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I'm pretty sure this is what they are going after: The new 7 dwarves. Should have just posted the pic originally.
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Oct 13, 2023 01:42
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^ this looks like it was ran through an AI image bot with the prompt "diversify the 7 dwarves for 2023 audiences" lolLividLiquid posted:That's just it, though. The inclusive remake thing isn't even in the zeitgeist anymore. Sunny did an episode on this five loving years ago. in true south park fashion, it would make more sense for them to have some people getting upset about the inclusivity but then other people who fight against them over why inclusivity is important and amplifies the voices of underrepresented individuals, but then someone else points out the irony that it's coming from a white person, but then someone else pointing out that the critique is coming from another white person. then everyone looks at tolkien and he just shrugs and cut to credits. hopefully it is nuanced bc that's when south park is at its best. only time will tell!
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Oct 13, 2023 01:49
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I think South Park is at its best when the kids are getting up to kids stuff and Trey isn't out of ideas so is just using a newspaper (twitter) to come up with ideas.
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Oct 13, 2023 01:52
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ShoogaSlim posted:^ this looks like it was ran through an AI image bot with the prompt "diversify the 7 dwarves for 2023 audiences" lol It is extremely likely this is where they are going to go. Poke a little fun at the idea of using diversity as a cash grab, and smack the hand harder on bigots who scream “she wasn’t black in the original”. Then use Tolkien as the bookend, especially as his character is basically based on the idea of media conglomerates shoehorning in diversity for quick cash and back pats. They’ve followed this exact formula 100s of times.
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Oct 13, 2023 02:03
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Is there a new ep of south park coming on soon? I was 12 when the first episode aired and I videoed it and everyone wanted that video
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Oct 13, 2023 02:04
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Waltzing Along posted:I'm pretty sure this is what they are going after:
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Oct 13, 2023 02:21
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LividLiquid posted:that's a far worse problem than Disney doing something everybody would otherwise forget about the day after it hits theaters if they even give enough of a poo poo to bother to remember they even saw an ad for it. why is this a far worse problem? conversely to your assessment, there are probably loads of people who will see the seven dwarves thing who are blissfully unaware of what youtube or twitter backlash even is let alone give a flying gently caress what some dweeb online thinks and yells into a camera ShoogaSlim fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Oct 14, 2023 |
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Oct 13, 2023 02:27
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One is creating nazis and the other is a movie nobody gives a poo poo about. It's pretty cut and dry.
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Oct 13, 2023 03:17
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LividLiquid posted:One is creating nazis and the other is a movie nobody gives a poo poo about. Exactly these kind of bullshit dog whistle complainers are the new breeding ground for right wing extremism and have driven more than one person to violence.
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Oct 13, 2023 03:53
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When I first saw the trailer I got annoyed, but then I remembered that almost every time they've done this sort of thing recently and I think it's going to be a chud-fest has ended up being pleasantly surprising. Almost. For instance, the "Randy Savage" episode - it's more a parody of the extreme absurdity that conservatives are convinced is happening (but isn't) than it is an actual complaint about trans women in women's sports. The problem, of course, is that the chuds never see it this way, they view it as the show supporting their side 100%. Anything from the show that supports the other side is just irony. Or maybe they're just successfully playing both sides and I'm falling for it, idk.
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Oct 13, 2023 04:15
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As far as I understand, the picture of the dwarves that sent peole into a fit isn't from the movie. It's just a shot from location shooting when they are trying to find the right angles or whatever and are using production members as stand-ins for the actors.
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Oct 13, 2023 05:23
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LividLiquid posted:One is creating nazis and the other is a movie nobody gives a poo poo about. i think that's a stretch. maybe i'm naive but south park "creating" nazis is like saying mortal kombat and marilyn manson created school shooters. if south park makes fun of media overcorrecting diversity and inclusion, then some guy makes a youtube video about it all like "yeah! this is BULLSHIT!" and some other guy watches that youtube video and is all like "YEAH I'M GONNA DO A HATE CRIME" then fuckin south park ain't the issue, friend.
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Oct 13, 2023 07:06
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The idea that people aren't shaped by the media they consume, especially when they consume more of it than ever, feels unrealistically optimistic to me. We largely absorb the beliefs of those around us, starting from birth most obviously, but still somewhat into adulthood. And if we spend more time on screens than with other people, that will be what we absorb instead. We are really not as unique and independent as we love to think we are. (I don't think South Park is the worst offender of course, just carrying on this line of conversation)
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Oct 13, 2023 13:34
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not a bot posted:As far as I understand, the picture of the dwarves that sent peole into a fit isn't from the movie. It's just a shot from location shooting when they are trying to find the right angles or whatever and are using production members as stand-ins for the actors. I also thought the issue was less about diversity casting and more about the fact that the dwarves were supposed to be fantasy based Dwarves(like Lord of the Rings) and not aimed at people with dwarfism. Like The Little Mermaid uproar was clearly diversity casting, but I thought that the backlash on Snow White was more aimed at the idea that Disney was trying not to cast people with dwarfism. I mean I'm not shocked that there is a diversity issue behind the backlash to the movie, as I have seen some hate towards the lead for not being white(of course not Gal Gadot because she played Wonder Woman(I dunno the "logic" here, it's not like they'd be happy if it was Bree Larson). Re:South Park, I'm pessimistic on this one. There's probably a joke to be made, but if they're basically doing the same stuff they did in that old 90s spot talking about diversity in the workplace then we're in trouble.
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Oct 13, 2023 15:26
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1.) I get that they're supposed to be making fun of "diversity casting", but I actually really do like the designs they came up with for the female versions of the boys. And the voice actresses they got sound really good. It feels kind of counterproductive to make a well done version of a thing you're trying to say is bad. 2.) As much as I like Kenny I don't think anyone would complain if he was replaced in the cast by a hot Asian lesbian, even Kenny. In fact, especially Kenny. Casting himself as a hot Asian lesbian feels like an idea he would come up with. 3.) I have absolutely zero faith in South Park handling this issue well. Mostly because it's a non-issue in the first place. Oh no, Disney made a live action version of one of their animated movies in order to extend the copyright they have on the IP and they cast a POC in one of the roles! This has such a huge effect on my life.
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Oct 13, 2023 16:36
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ShoogaSlim posted:i think that's a stretch. maybe i'm naive but south park "creating" nazis I was talking about the right wing Youtube outrage machine, which is an actual problem, whereas boring, cynical woke capitalism can safely be ignored, and largely is by anybody not trying to create new nazis for money. Having the same talking points as those nazi chuds means you're on the wrong side of poo poo, though.
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Oct 13, 2023 20:35
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Oh and just regarding Snow White specifically, it's pretty drat obvious the only right thing to do is just not remake it, ever, because right there in the title you have a whole bunch of reasons why it's a product of its time and should stay there. The original is preserved, that's all we need. But obviously there are quite a few commercial incentives to do it, including this very discourse, so they're gonna. But it remains the thing that should not be.
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Oct 13, 2023 21:41
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LividLiquid posted:This isn't what I said, nor is it what I think. what you're saying is that critique of disney should not exist otherwise it will enable/embolden/create nazis. which is absurd. is it only south park that isn't allowed to critique? is new york magazine allowed to? or some other higher brow form of discourse? or is all critique disallowed bc of the imagined implications?
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Oct 13, 2023 22:56
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ShoogaSlim posted:what you're saying is that critique of disney should not exist otherwise it will enable/embolden/create nazis. which is absurd. is it only south park that isn't allowed to critique? is new york magazine allowed to? or some other higher brow form of discourse? or is all critique disallowed bc of the imagined implications? The goon yelling about someone using strawman fallacy also constantly using strawman fallacy will never not be funny. My dude, no one is saying people should not be allowed to critique Disney. People are saying you shouldn’t be critiquing Disney for including diversity because you’re critiquing diversity initiatives, which have been repeatedly proven important and impactful. Feel free to critique Disney for doing it for all of the wrong reasons, because by and large they are doing it for the wrong reasons. Actions /= intent in every scenario, and it’s absolutely possible for actions to be inherently right while also being extremely loving scummy.
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Oct 13, 2023 23:29
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ShoogaSlim posted:what you're saying is that critique of disney should not exist otherwise it will No I'm not. Would you like me to explain again?
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Oct 14, 2023 07:58
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There's no way this episode will live up to the pregaming in this thread.
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Oct 14, 2023 08:05
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Yeah, can we go back to the moment where I was pleased and impressed that we weren't going to do exactly this?
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Oct 14, 2023 08:36
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ShoogaSlim posted:"i am certain that the people who i trivialize and refuse to apply a nuanced perspective to are they themselves trivializing and refusing to apply nuanced perspective to the thing i care about!" ShoogaSlim posted:what you're saying is that critique of disney should not exist otherwise it will enable/embolden/create nazis. which is absurd. is it only south park that isn't allowed to critique? is new york magazine allowed to? or some other higher brow form of discourse? or is all critique disallowed bc of the imagined implications? Seems you should be reading your own posts about what a strawman is.
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Oct 14, 2023 09:35
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:The goon yelling about someone using strawman fallacy also constantly using strawman fallacy will never not be funny. socialsecurity posted:Seems you should be reading your own posts about what a strawman is. i admit i screwed up and made a poor argument and am being a hypocrite. LividLiquid posted:No I'm not. Would you like me to explain again? it sounded to me like you were saying that south park was enabling/creating nazis by critiquing an otherwise benign media phenomenon that would then be misinterpreted by right wing dudes online as validation/a free pass to spew hatred toward minorities. that, and/or someone who would otherwise not even realize that the seven dwarves or whatever was being remade would watch south park make fun of it and then use that as an excuse to spew hatred toward minorities. if that's not what you're saying, then yes i am misunderstanding and apologize for jumping to conclusions and using lovely discourse skills. my custom title is correct, etc.
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Oct 14, 2023 15:33
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No problem. Thank you. It happens. Somebody said this episode's subject matter was in the zeitgeist and I was saying South Park's take on this is actually quite old and the more in-the-zeitgeist take, and the one I'd rather see, would be for the show to take on the right wing Youtube outrage machine via, for instance, an episode where Cartman or the rednecks have a problem with Wendy for being forced inclusion or something. That's the creative end of things. On the political, I wrapped this in my opinion that who South Park attacks actually does matter, and the more deserving target isn't cynical, forgettable woke reboots. It's the chuds who use that media — media basically nobody actually cares about — to whip up a frenzy and radicalize angry white people. I would so much rather see South Park go after a deserving target than the other way around, but it's also just a really, really tired piece of subject matter for them to take on, so here's hoping the reason that's the case is that they do actually have something to say other than "they're woking all your media," because that's the same talking point literal, actual nazis are using to recruit right now, aided by said Youtube right-wing outrage machine. I hope I explained it better this time.
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Oct 14, 2023 18:32
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You better do as you're told and embrace diverse reboots, otherwise you're just a common nazi.
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Oct 14, 2023 20:16
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TheFattestPat posted:You better do as you're told and embrace diverse reboots, otherwise you're just a common nazi. I mean, yeah? Getting angry at the race of the actor portraying a character is still getting mad at their race. Ariel having luminescent white skin is somehow not integral to the story of the little mermaid, despite how badly the right wing outrage machine wants it to be. She could be loving green and it wouldn’t matter. Notice how no one ever complained for decades when white people portrayed non-white characters until the racism drat started to break down and become unsustainable. There was a point in cinema where Asian people were almost exclusively played by white people with extremely racist accents and facial expressions.
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Oct 14, 2023 20:35
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