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While I appreciate the shoutout in the intro, we could probably do without bombarding new readers with my lengthy rants. I can do a more polished general write-up/abstract of what it's about with links to my relevant posts and OPP threads, if that's agreeable?
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Sep 28, 2019 03:48
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It also bears noting that Brucato is very much stuck in a certain late 80s model of chaos magick kybalion-loving new age neo-hippy dudeguy, and this colours nearly all of his work quite seriously. It's why paradigms in M20 are a total mess, why there's a constant focus on otherness as innate goodness (as opposed to, well, simply otherness), and underlies his eye-rolling but not ill-intentioned identification of all trans people and enbies with the magical hermaphrodite. That last one, incidentally, isn't so much bigoted as applying a very narrow magical idea of gender as simultaneously performative (as expression of duality's perceived encoding) and essential (as embodiment of that same duality's occult nature) to a wide range of disparate, culturally-coded experiences. I know of a few transfolk new agers and occultists who do make that identification themselves but far more who absolutely don't so it's problematic but not necessarily transmiscic.
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Sep 28, 2019 08:37
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One of these days I want to record a WoD podcast that's very specifically a paranormal radio show on the nights really weird poo poo goes down with knock-on impacts in the mortal world - so the night of Doissetep's fall, for instance where an ordinary night's 'so, ufos - real or bullshit?' is disrupted by callers saying 'Art, my computer screen just turned into a screaming face for a few seconds' and 'Stonehenge is gone, man! STONEHENGE IS JUST GONE!' For maximum effect any time it gets too blatant we can follow the Area 51 caller formula where suddenly the show vanishes and is replaced by a loop from a prior episode of normal content because of a 'satellite failure'.
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Oct 4, 2019 09:02
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Witch House is the most VtM music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsaG8_aFVA0
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Oct 8, 2019 11:50
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There’s an interesting notion in the fairly terrible Predator and Prey series. Michigan’s young kindred float between small cities that can’t really support s vampiric population to avoid overpredation. If we made this a more universal model, it could be quite interest8ng in its ramifications demographically.
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Oct 8, 2019 14:44
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:In a pinch, I would think you could napkin-math stuff by considering a metro area (whether formal metro area or CSA, or just 'these towns near enough that you could commute from one to the next if you had to'-level) for area feeding stability/population support. The first part is something I’ve been looking at for the population ratios - I look at both distinct city pops and broader metro/csa, then move up into looking at state and national levels. The second is reasonably doable, too. Just have to figure out local maximum travel range (between logistical problems, claimed territories, and Werewolf attacks) and then an average time:vitae ratio for hunting. The disturbing part that follows is that these nomadic hunters are likely heavier feeders than others, due to both increased risk of injury/need to fight (and subsequent need to burn blood to learn new disciplines and practice them in order to survive) and unreliability of successful feeding on any given night. In Michigan’s case every territory of worth is assigned already so a lot of this feeding has to be threaded through isolated pockets of shitburgs and suburbs and bumfuck towns, which is presumably a common issue. Urban/suburban travel is preferable due to the risk of werewolf attack, cannibal gang attack (apparently cannibal highway bandits are a real problem in the oWoD), car trouble in the middle of nowhere, etc, which limits maximum speed of transit by car to maybe a third (counting stopping at lights, traffic, etc - admittedly less of a problem at night so maybe half) of optimum straightshot Highway travel.
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Oct 8, 2019 15:16
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Night10194 posted:Did oWoD ever set anything especially important in Detroit, actually? It seems like a city that would be interesting for supernatural shenanigans. A few, but mostly they just wrote it off as Sabbat territory. The best thing they ever did was in V20, where they made it the home of Sapa Inca - a drug cartel that was used as a pawn by anarchs to weaken the Sabbat, but got out of hand and scoured the entire city clean and was, at last mention, actively reaching out to the rest of the criminal underworld across the country to join them in a cocaine-fuelled war against the things that go bump in the night. Mors Rattus posted:Isn't a cannibal gang attacking a vampire caravan more of a food delivery? A caravan, yes. But most of these fledglings are probably solo or duo acts - the blood economic incentives that let them survive are built on managing prey scarcity and exploiting marginal feeding grounds (most of their hunting grounds are probably sub-50k inhabitants) so larger groups are unlikely to work well together as it loses the ability to space out individual feeding impacts and makes for a bigger spike in risk of sighting/overfeeding/etc than individual or pair groups rotating through a few feeding pockets do. This being the case and a half dozen men with shotguns, chainsaws, and Molotov’s being a pretty substantial threat to most of the inhabitants of this proposed jackal-vampire tier, it’s less of a ‘food that comes to us’ thing and more of a real threat, even if only in terms of leaving the jackal-vamps stranded with a disabled vehicle as the sun is coming up. Loomer fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Oct 8, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 15:37
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I did a quick file check and there's a few interesting bits and pieces around Detroit - the horrifying worm ghoul farm, an ITX construct, a Lost Boys pack in Orpheus - but it really is a total missed opportunity. White Wolf was very reticent about actually exploring Sabbat held territories (Mexico City by Night and Montreal by Night are the exceptions, and I suspect also demonstrate why - they felt a need to shock whenever they did and, of course, viewed Sabbat games as always tangential to core anarch/Camarilla games) so it's not a big surprise but it is a shame, especially since the same themes that made people dig Chicago by Night are at play in Detroit. How does the Sabbat handle the downturn and desperation - are there factions looking to bring manufacturing back to reverse the steady drain of feeding resources from their territory? Are they deliberately working to worsen the poverty to stem the same? There's so much that can be done with it: a decaying industrial giant riddled with vampiric parasites; gateway to the Sabbat North, ringed and besieged by the hordes of the Antediluvians and under constant infiltration and attack; a once great center of culture brought to its knees by the shortage of the precious fluids that industrial society devours in a clear vampiric metaphor...
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Oct 9, 2019 04:07
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Gangrel: How sure are you that your furry friends are actually your friends? No reason. It's not like anyone else can see through dog's eyes.
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Oct 9, 2019 05:38
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Well, it was the 90s. Outside of big cities, basically nothing but bars is open past 9pm, you can't really even have a lazy night in because there's no streaming services and unless you planned it out in advance, video rental places might not even be open after sunset during the warmer months. Until the tail end of the decade, there's not really any reliable internet you can use to connect with people you haven't directly met since becoming a vampire. This is also why the 1:100k ratio is actually a lot lower than it sounds. 100,000 people is a lot when you only need a minimum of 365 BP a year to survive, right? That's less than 1% of the total population if you feed on someone new each night! But in that population, we have children, the elderly, shut-ins, etc. So let's say that people under 16 make up 10% of the population of a given city of 100,000, and make up a comparatively negligible part of the potential prey population as they're mostly indoors at home/loosely supervised gatherings/etc during peak hunting hours (excluding homeless kids, kids without a structured home life, and so on - if we like, we might put that at 1% of the total 100,000k), which for present purposes are around 10PM to 2AM (plenty of drunks, things are still active but quietening down a little so there's less chance of being observed). We're already down to 90,000/91,000 in our potential pool of prey. We'll make the similar assumption that people over the age of 60 are negligible as part of the prey population (they may still be out and active but more likely in areas unattractive for hunting - social clubs, private residences, etc. Homeless people of this age are also dwindling due to higher mortality.) and mark them out as constituting 15% of the potential pool, bringing us to only 75k prey pool. Of that 75k, there's a good chance quite a few will be at home on a given night (especially week nights) or at community meetings etc that are unappealing targets for hunting activity - if the average member of the population available goes out two nights a week (arbitrary figure, but reasonable enough as an average between the party animals, the people who hang out at bars, and the recluses) then on any given night there's only ~10k people available to feed on. A good chunk of these people will not be suitable targets - moving in groups, only out for a few hours, etc - or available during peak feeding hours, so let's knock an additional third off. The nightly potential prey pool drops to 7k, which is still quite large - but it's also spread over a large geographical area and requires time investment. For Ventrue, of course, the situation is even worse. Of that 7k, a good chunk of those available during the peak hunting hours will be regular partygoers, students, restaurant staff, the homeless, prostitutes, and so on, subject to an already higher than average rate of both mortal and vampiric predation, which in turn means that if you're trying not to be noticed by overfeeding on certain areas and demographics you need to use them sparingly (especially as, if it's a shared hunting ground, they're likely being preyed on by other vampires as well) to prevent them getting sick in clusters and drawing attention. So that enormous 100k:1 ratio dramatically shrinks on a night-to-night basis and already contains a 20-30% non-prey contingent for anyone who doesn't feed via home invasion. Now drop that population down and introduce the restrictions of smaller cities... EDIT: When my thesis is done I might write up an in-universe article on vampire predation models by a Gangrel anthropophagologist working with Netchurch.
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Oct 9, 2019 06:30
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Tremere: Mercury enters its retrograde turn on All Hallow's Eve. Samiel's Curse upon the Eldest rings loudest in your blood this month.
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Oct 9, 2019 08:11
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Tremere: You will receive a visit from an old acquaintance, who shares your interests in occult power. Your word for the week: Massasa.
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Oct 9, 2019 14:20
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I've identified eight core types of feeding: 1. Herd-based feeding 2. Active Predation 3. Passive Predation 4. Animal-based feeding 5. Bloodbanking 6. Raiding and Migratory feeding styles 7. Bulk Feeding 8. Predator's predators - vampires who feed only on other vampires using any of the above models, but whose feeding requires additional consideration in terms of supportable population and considerations around blood bonding, mortal vessel impacts, and the care and feeding of the vampiric herd. Between this and an exploration of the basic mathematics and statistics of what various populations can actually support (e.g. the way 100k:1 can shrink as a ratio to 50k:1 and lower I did earlier) under each model, Dr. Acula's article is going to be a doozy.
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Oct 10, 2019 16:03
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There’s slightly more leeway in classic vampire for overpopulation and overpredation due to the generally poor conditions of life and higher mortality providing a smokescreen for vampire-related illness and death. We can also consider the buffer made available by Domination and such in terms of cover ups, which will help in reducing visibility of the vampire population even where overpopulated. That said, the setting was definitely very inconsistent with it and the numbers don’t quite add up in most areas. One issue is that vampires feed too much - if they need one blood only every few nights (closer to some of the originating myths) then you can have correspondingly higher populations to play with.
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Oct 11, 2019 03:19
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If they have air, yes.
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Oct 11, 2019 03:49
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You might as well attain Golconda while you're at it.
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Oct 11, 2019 05:47
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Possibly the most interesting feeding model to write up is herdraiding. Vampire rip-and-runs, basically - why go to the effort of cultivating a bloodcult, agreeable band of SM freaks, or conditioned suburban cul de sac when you can simply hide, watch, and then sweep in and feed on someone else's? The danger, of course, is in getting caught, which necessitates migration between cities or the ability to go entirely unnoticed and either caution or an extreme capacity for violence, and the reconnaisance element requires ghouls or animal spies. This leads us to two natural herd-raiding populations: City gangrel and Nosferatu. Both possess the requisite capacity for violence and ability to hide easily in their innate discipline spread, with the Nosferatu being the best placed for the unnoticed herd-raider and the City Gangrel for the migratory. Drift into a city, announce yourself at Elysium so you have a chance to find out who's who and who's likely to have a herd, follow them home and merge into the soil. Watch them for a night or two and either they lead you to their herd or their herd comes to them (in which case you engage in opportunistic feeding and move on to the next target), and if you find out where that herd's located, feed to your heart's content for a few nights, then move to the next likely mark. Then when you've exhausted the easy options, on to the next city. Herd-raiders, in theory, present the lowest impact of all feeding types in terms of potential masquerade breaches, as they don't expose themselves as vampires to anyone but kine already in the know who are already prey and whose voices can be very quickly silenced by the court and their owner. There are knock-on effects if the herd's owner has to replace members who die of overuse between the multiple vampires exploiting them, but in the case of large herds this is less of a problem. Of course, the best herd to avoid this with and in terms of lowest risk of exposure more generally is one kept contained in cells in the basement, but that presents it's own logistical challenges. Herding's chapter is divided appropriately into three forms of herding - subtle herds (herds that don't know they're herds - reliable fuckbuddies, for instance), coercive herds (imprisoned or otherwise coerced herds who may or may not be aware they're a herd - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41ze_SUHxI), and social herds (blood cults, secret societies, and so on - herds that both know and accept that they are herds). Each one in turn presents distinct ramifications for supportable populations, risks of exposure, and the management of herdkine health, obedience, and concealment.
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Oct 11, 2019 06:46
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That's some jank-rear end CGI.
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Oct 12, 2019 04:00
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Ventrue are a real spanner in the works ratio-wise. We can't really look at them without knowing their feeding restrictions but almost all of them will come out to less than 1:100,000 in all but the largest cities and with the most generous restrictions. For instance, one Ventrue NPC can feed only on gang members - and while the oWoD has a higher crime rate, this is still unlikely to hit over 100,000 people in his city of residence. Another is from his own mortal descendants - and he was only embraced a couple of generations ago, so even at an optimistic rate of reproduction (ten children who each had ten children who each had ten children, all of whom have managed to stay alive) it's 1:1000. The side effect of this, of course, is that in some respects it is possible to effectively ignore the city's ventrue in terms of the ordinary ratio, as their 'share' of the 100,000 is essentially defunct due to the necessity of their maintaining large and carefully managed herds. A prince who has the information - which no ventrue worth their salt will hand over - could even arrange to declare all such personages the property of their ventrue subjects and maintain a much higher population of mostly-Ventrue subjects than could ever be attained elsewhere, especially where the Ventrue in question feed on populations already subject to heightened illness and mortality rates that mask their activities (opiate addicts, the desperately impoverished) either as their restriction or as a particularly callous 'risk management' strategy that systematically leverages the tools of oppression and domination to ensure that whatever groups in the city are subject to concentrated predation are discredited and disenfranchised.
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Oct 12, 2019 10:16
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I think you'll find that the Children were wiped out several times and were never particularly numerous to begin with.
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Oct 12, 2019 12:36
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Houdini is an 11th Generation Tremere living in Chicago, though he likely met his end in the Garou Nation-Camarilla Conflict of 1992.
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Oct 13, 2019 02:08
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Unfortunately we don't know - his fate is unrecorded as he doesn't appear directly in Under a Blood Red Moon but also doesn't reappear in Chicago by Night's second edition (no comment on the V5 one - I boycotted it so I have none of it) so it's just a presumption he died.
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Oct 13, 2019 03:41
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I’m contemplating putting together a proper PDF of the timeline with appropriate kit and public domain art, layout, and editors notes to put on the Vault alongside a basic version for free. The vault itself actually seems like the most straightforward method of disseminating the project files as a freebie or pay what you like thing, too. Central problem is that it only covers up to revised, but I suppose if there’s enough downloads I could justify V20, though V5 is probably going to stay off the table with the boycott and all.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:34
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Rand Brittain posted:You worked hard on this, guy. On behalf of yourself and everybody else who puts things on the Vault, you ought to charge a reasonable price for it. All it is is a compilation of other people’s writings, summarised and cross referenced. The only original work and content is in things like the Noddist exegesis and bloodline charts and editors notes, so I feel a bit awkward even considering putting a more than token price on it, and I did make a commitment to the thread years ago to release it for free. Which I suppose the basic version without the extra effort of layout and such satisfies.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:51
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Pope Guilty posted:Even if you don't feel like charging, every high-effort free product makes it harder for others to get paid for their work, so charge for other writers even if not for yourself! Well, poo poo. Not loving up other people is my weak spot. I guess I'll just have to throw in enough extra content in the appendixes and notes so I don't feel like a total ripoff artist.
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Oct 14, 2019 03:59
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An intriguing possibility has presented itself during a check on something. Disembodiment - the process by which mages risk being unable to return to earth after too long beyond the Gauntlet - can be affected by altering the moon's orbit, as it takes three lunar months. This, of course, suggests two immediate solutions to the issue: Blow the fucker up or push it so far out that it takes years. Is it wise? No. Is it exactly the kind of thing an Etherite would get up to unsupervised, enabling a frantic scramble by the player cabal to stop them in a Bond-style Evil Lair Infiltration? Yes. And, of course, such an effort would be too much for any one mage - however talented - to achieve, so naturally there's follow-ups to hunt down and dismantle the Sinister Conspiracy To Erase The Moon, with a wide range of batshit insane secret cells hidden in the Traditions, the Technocracy, Pentex, and probably some fae or some poo poo. If one was so inclined, one could even borrow appropriately from Stross here for maximum Bond - one of his novels features a supervillain who deliberately creates a wide-area geas that renders him vulnerable only to a Bond figure as controlled opposition to his plans. It's not quite how Mage works but if the Mad Etherite has a suitable Horizon realm - perhaps in the form of a Secret Moon Base for ultimate irony, hidden in the polar craters where he's building enormous engines to literally blast the thing out of its proper orbit? - the local Paradigm can do the job. Loomer fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Oct 17, 2019 |
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Oct 17, 2019 03:33
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Nah, I'm too hairy. On a related note to the above, I just discovered the novel Olga Romanoff, which is both now in the public domain and, more importantly, has sixteen illustrations of skyships from 1897 that would be perfect for a single shot of Czar Vargo's Intervention that I can write up and include in the timeline download as a value add.
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Oct 17, 2019 04:37
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If I ever find out what fucker at White Wolf decided that brown on textured brown was an acceptable stylistic decision for a novel, I will beat them with every book they authorized that for.
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Oct 17, 2019 06:20
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Dear Ann, One of the Gangrel elders is really into Native Americans. How do I tell him his War Bonnet is inappropriate without him literally tearing my face off?
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Oct 18, 2019 04:02
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Particularly off-the-wall End Times scenario has come to mind as an additional extra - the whole Age of Iron part of the KOTE metaplot, where one of the Yama Kings will rise and become the Demon Emperor of all creation, taking place only to grind to a halt because no one accounted for the presence of an actual Demon Emperor already walking the Earth. Lucifer and his legions (and maybe, depending on the PCs, even the Earthbound, in a very loose alliance of convenience) suddenly getting up in Mikaboshi's business, with it unfolding from there as a sudden twist in either a Demon or KotE end-times game - at the close, it turns out that was just the warmup and things aren't even close to settled, with a final chance to decide whether the Age of Iron breaks the wheel or finally restores it to turn properly. Demon-KotE seems like an odd cross-over but it honestly seems like it would work way better than Vampire-KOTE in terms of 'they're like us, but not, in terrifying and beautiful ways' - in both cases they're themed very specifically around escaping the underworld into reality, taking on a new body, and proceeding to chase philosophical dreams (whether of power or knowledge or sheer hedonism) while advancing both the understanding of humanity and one's supernatural self, all while grappling with the mandates of a distant and perhaps outright dead god against whom there's been a historic rebellion that was brutally punished, while trying to prevent the most monstrous among them (since half the Yama Kings were once Kuei) from further ruining creation. The Kuei-jin can even be rightfully angry at the Fallen for creating the substrate of the hell they were tortured in, setting up a natural reason for some heavy faction antagonism that isn't just the Yellow Peril trope.
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Oct 18, 2019 04:33
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Naturally, half the books I was hoping to use for the deluxe timeline pdf aren't in the art packs. I'll make do.
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Oct 21, 2019 13:50
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Hey, don't look at me. I'm not the one who turned that into the Assamite horoscope.
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Oct 22, 2019 04:45
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Yeah, that was the idea. It really doesn't make any sense as a curse on the Assamites, unless the Assamite elder in question is aware of the cut secret origin of Ur-Shulgi as a bizarre Nephandi-Baali-Assamite fusion. I was basically just going for 'hahaha you're really just tzimisce bloodline you nerds, you picked the worst vampire clan to steal blood from because Saulot's been loving with you since before Goratrix even thought of his ritual and wanted to use you to avenge the death of his childe and exterminate his own clan'
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Oct 22, 2019 06:35
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Double kudos for rolling with it too. Sucks to lose the Best Setite but man, what a way to go and shake up the existing power dynamics. Set would be proud.
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Oct 22, 2019 14:58
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Your friend got any oWoD offcuts that aren't under NDA? I'm always curious about ideas that got cut for space reasons.
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Oct 23, 2019 07:10
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You know, something was bothering me earlier. Magical and synthetic blood is commonplace in the oWoD - there's even a vampire-owned company that distributes it globally (in exactly one short story, which would really gently caress up the entire premise if it ever got out of its box which is why everyone else ignores it.) So why isn't it available easily? What's stopping a whole True Blood deal unfolding? And then it struck me that the explanation that fits best is that the Camarilla doesn't want it to be, out of fear, which is great thematically. A world of peace is open to all vampirekind, if they'd but take it! But fear and the need for control by a handful of old bastards keeps the final nights awash in innocent blood. The very act of feeding is, then, an act of structural violence not only between vampire and prey, but between fledgling and elder, for it is open to the fledgling to feed on no one at all without the enormous list of disciplines of Mulva's route. In this way the theme of neonate against elder, dynamic against static, is preserved even with the existence of synthetic blood, but it also gives an anarch game a potentially tremendous end-game scenario: Release the synthetic blood formula. Fight to end Caine's curse - not by ending vampirism, but by ending the violence it entails, the symbolic nightly representation of the Original Murder. One can even go so far as to have it end vampirism if one wants a true endgame - perhaps if they succeed it triggers the End, and Gehenna is but the passing of ancients who fear the way of human progress, withering into dust as the curse ebbs away without the nightly sympathetic magic that reinforces it being supported by the suffering of millions of victims. This latter dimension of the curse is underconsidered. It is not merely a private torment - indeed, for many vampires it is no such thing - but a collective torment of humanity. Every night the vampire must repeat the fateful act to survive, and in doing so, they produce tremendous magical energy, both because there is power in the blood and because the curse is inherently linked to repetition, to stubbornness, and to the wild-eyed grief of shed blood. That energy must go somewhere, and while the conventional answer is that the vitae is quintessence, why not into one ongoing rite, one binding reinforced with each and every feeding, each and every time that the murder is symbolically re-enacted thanks to the stubbornness of kindred who can choose to never again re-enact it (not by feeding only morally, but only by not feeding on any living thing - every such act, willing or not, is symbolically the first murder. Caine's great crime was not merely murder but his refusal to make good and beg for forgiveness, and so the only way out is to stop feeding entirely, to shrink into torpor or meet the End. In this way it is open to every vampire to pursue the end of the curse if they can but accept their own deaths.) The second alternative, of course, is that the Technocracy keeps blocking it because it'd really gently caress up the paradigm, but that route is less interesting. Either way, it's given me material for a Connections sidebar in the timeline document, which is going to be one of the value adds - ways to link unrelated but thematically appropriate events together or spin a seemingly minor point of lore into a fascinating arc of a chronicle.
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Oct 23, 2019 10:50
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YaketySass posted:Wouldn't the Thirst of Ages still be an issue eventually? Unless the end of feeding ends vampirism through sympathetic effect, yes. It's less of an issue when the main feeding population is on synthetics, however, as either similar synthetics can be made for elder substitutes or, if not, then the amount of human suffering involved remains nil. In the latter event, this can even extend to the vampires using the same distribution framework to resolve the issue by having those who can still feed on fake blood donate, anonymizing it, and then shipping it out of the regions it came from and into distant ones, preventing elders from becoming blood bound to anyone they know. Said result would probably interfere in ending vampirism via sympathetic magic, though.
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Oct 24, 2019 02:20
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Ferrinus posted:The bourgeoise already exist. Vampires would simply not be a big deal unless they challenged the ruling order, which they don’t, because they mostly reproduce and represent it. This is only the case if the curse is fuelled by abstract suffering rather than the direct symbolic repetition of the first murder.
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Oct 24, 2019 03:31
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Ferrinus posted:But... stealing someone else's life force to sustain your own power over them is in no way a symbolic repetition of the first murder. Stealing someone else's blood for the purpose, however, is. Caine's crime is twofold - there is the shedding of blood first, and the refusal to acknowledge wrongdoing second. The nightly repetition of feeding symbolically reproduces both misdeeds in a way that capitalism, apt bloodsucking vampire metaphors aside, doesn't. Every act of feeding requires the physical violation of a body and the outpouring of blood (the murder, and in the case of the less satisfying vitae of animals, the sacrifice that God spurns), born out of a refusal to accept one's wrongdoing and face the consequences (the shamelessness).
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Oct 24, 2019 08:05
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| # ¿ May 15, 2024 06:23 |
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Tias posted:So, our ST sprung a true fae on us, murdering one character and releasing the rogue fetch we finally had our hands on. I'm kinda disappointed, but that's more because of other bad approaches by one of the STs recently. I haven't trimmed them out yet so you'll have to grab the book itself. https://archive.org/details/olgaromanoff00grif/page/n11
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Oct 24, 2019 08:06
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