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Watching that speech at the Greens conference was slightly depressing because they're mostly good policies but a vote for the Greens in the vast majority of the UK does literally nothing except siphon off votes from Labour and increasing the chance of another Tory hell government. Yeah I know that there's horrible "keep the unwashed hordes away from our pretty countryside" voters in there too but still
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Oct 4, 2019 20:44
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Jewish grandmother’ Islington councillor defends Jeremy Corbyn in TV clash 
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Oct 4, 2019 22:27
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You do not want to be working with that person, she sounds insufferable
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Oct 4, 2019 22:49
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"gritty" is a word often used to describe comical animal puppets this is my normal opinion
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Oct 5, 2019 10:55
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As well as what everyone else has said, the BBC and papers have been saying basically all week that Boris fixed Brexit with his amazing new proposal and isn't he great which is clearly sloppy fetid horse poo poo but does somehow have an impact. I don't know if anyone remembers but the Tories under TM got a fairly hefty bump in approval a few times when several similar events happened and they got to say "look we did a negotiation we are competent"
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Oct 5, 2019 22:45
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Pesky Splinter posted:The long and short of it, they're now made up of 1/3rd of MPs whom they lovingly pulled in from the trash, because they love to rub that garbage all over themselves. Licking poo poo for a tiny bit of actual influence is the only consistent thing I can see in the LDs over the past decade+ so makes sense
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Oct 8, 2019 08:04
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It's perfectly feasible, we just have to go back in time and not dismantle the Ottoman Empire for lols and imperialism
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Oct 9, 2019 22:20
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Guavanaut posted:Dismantling empires for imperialism. Our imperialism = good, their imperialism = bad, obviously.
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Oct 9, 2019 22:41
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Hadn't seen this discussed much in thread: I believe that that this is the thing where the government has been talking about "legal differences of opinion"; apparently it's somewhat likely that if Boris did this it would end up back in court and he would lose since he's clearly trying to frustrate the actual objective of the legislation in spite of also doing everything it asks. Also there doesn't seem to be any reason why the EU has to treat a second letter with equal weight to the first; unless it actually says "we're withdrawing our request to extend" then they can just say "fine you request an extension, but you don't want it, here's an offer anyway" My take on this is that it's more playing to the gammon vote and "waah parliament is mean and won't let me gently caress the country (in this one specific way)" than actually finding a way to no deal directly.
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Oct 10, 2019 08:02
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Rarity posted:Claimed there is no antisemitism in the Labour party (there is some, it's just not as much as general society or the Tory party in particular) When did he say this? I thought it was the "too apologetic" thing which was 100% correct both now and then.
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Oct 10, 2019 19:06
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Chuka Umana posted:Wait so Swinson just wants to revoke article 50 and pretend like the last three years never happened? That seems extremely dangerous for politics and basically gives the future Tories a gift to have Brexit in their platform permanently. Brexit is an identity issue now for a lot of people and being the "most remain" is the only thing the LDs stand for other than "remember Cameron, let's do that some more" E: Jose posted:even this massive melt thinks a referendum before an election is a bad idea now The comments on this are so far from what I expected I feel like I've stepped into an alternate reality internet where people aren't dumb assholes 95% of the time RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Oct 10, 2019 |
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Oct 10, 2019 22:44
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Jose posted:my brothers mate did 6 months inside and his cell mate was doing serious damage to his arse because he kept a mobile in it and used shampoo as the lube. he apparently only ever used it to just call friends to talk Friends please only insert your butt phones with a body safe lubricant thanks
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Oct 11, 2019 21:15
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Oct 12, 2019 22:36
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DesperateDan posted:This morning it's a little fry up. The sausages are toulouse ones I got on reduced from waitrose and they are amazing. Read this as toluene sausages and was extremely confused for a while.
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Oct 13, 2019 09:50
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Pochoclo posted:Also when you all say Eudaimonia I think of Alpha Centauri  I'm still mad that they're never going to make a sequel because the gameplay kind of sucks (as in, it's very easy to comically break the game) compared to modern strategy games but it's still the best game ever in terms of making you feel like a bunch of dumb squabbling humans moving onto a new and very alien world. I used to love planting green forests everywhere 
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Oct 13, 2019 11:28
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OwlFancier posted:p-tory zombie. Bold to assume that tories might actually be sentient and aren't just malevolent forces of elemental evil
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Oct 13, 2019 15:31
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I actually kind of like the idea of a "everyone bring your own dish & drink but it has to be trashy af" party. There's a certain kind of nostalgic comfort you only get from crap supermarket frozen pizza and paint stripper vodka mixers etc.
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Oct 13, 2019 18:25
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A 2nd ref on this deal (vs. remain obviously) seems like the best possible outcome besides a Labour government being able to negotiate a better deal (which seems unlikely at the moment and the outcome of a GE seems too close to call) The deal itself is lovely enough that people who were previously in favour of both soft or very hard brexit can reasonably feel like they're not getting what they wanted. This will also hopefully get the more pro-Brexit Labour MPs on board with backing remain. The clear problems with the deal itself can be blamed entirely on the Tories. Labour can feasibly say that they've tried really hard to give people the opportunity to vote on a less bad deal but since Boris keeps wrangling to make NDB happen and the EU is getting more and more pissed off then we just have to settle for a referendum between bad deal or remain. In the case of a referendum happening and remain winning the Tories are hosed forever as they just spent the past 3 years hardening a significant chunk of their voter base into thinking that anything other than NDB is treason and these people will vote Brexit Party until the grave. Even if leave wins it's still less bad than NDB, and if we have a GE rather than a 2nd ref and the Tories win, the outcome will be just as bad or worse as having leave win a 2nd ref right now. I guess I have more faith in the electorate not choosing "Leave, but a really lovely leave, but certainly not the BULLDOGS AND TRADE DEALS FOR ALL gently caress EVERYONE Brexit we've been bigging up for months" option over Remain than I do having them back a Labour government while Brexit is still an active issue (obviously it will still be a thing after a theoretical 2nd ref, but it will be less mainstream). Plus it's easy to position Remain as the "stop talking about Brexit" position, since the trade negotiations will take many more years even if the deal is agreed, even the people who are pro Brexit agree with this now, nobody is saying that trade deals are going to be the easiest in history any more.
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Oct 17, 2019 19:51
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bump_fn posted:how is “yes i support leave but not with this poo poo deal” a difficult message This times a million, other than the 4 or so ideological super brexiteers I don't understand this at all, surely Labour Brexit voters are going to say "why did you vote for a lovely deal that makes the Tories stronger"
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Oct 18, 2019 19:55
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I'm glad someone explained that amendment thing because I was getting really confused about how Labour could possibly even consider not making this a "vote against or we launch you into the sun" issue
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Oct 18, 2019 23:30
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Private Speech posted:Didn't Hoey say she'd vote with the DUP? She seems to consistently vote against anything which might reduce the government's ability to do whatever the gently caress it likes re: Brexit so it's entirely expected
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Oct 19, 2019 15:18
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Soylent Yellow posted:https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/721?byMember=false#notrecorded About as likely as the 4 Labour abstentions i.e. loving not at all OwlFancier posted:Doesn't that fall foul of the same rule may did where you can't bring the same motion forward multiple times? Interesting that in spite of his rhetoric everything Boris has done so far has been exactly like TM except worse, almost like he's completely unused to actually having to do things other than talk poo poo
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Oct 19, 2019 15:24
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Well that tweet got deleted quickly
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Oct 19, 2019 17:09
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Did the DUP ever get their bribe money?
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Oct 19, 2019 17:12
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Relying on the DUP to be sufficiently pissed off at Boris to just do whatever he wants the least sounds like a very unattractive option tbh
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Oct 20, 2019 18:57
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jabby posted:Arguably the customs union amendment is this, if the DUP can be convinced to back it on the basis that it keeps the UK together. Remember it only failed by 3 votes last time, and it has a decent chance of attracting Labour rebels and former Tories. Feeling something dangerously like hope but at the same time how exactly would this amendment work legally? Surely at best it could commit the UK to try to reach an agreement to remain in the EU customs union but there would have to be actual negotiation with the EU on that which the government could just... not do? And tbh the EU probably doesn't want to do that either
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Oct 20, 2019 20:06
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Nocturtle posted:Thanks for all the replies. Given it's proximity it seems obvious that the UK leaving the customs Union would be an economic disaster for Ireland, despite the inflated export numbers. Just trying to get a handle on the extent that other regions are going to get dragged into this horror show, now that there's an agreement that has a non-negligible chance of passing. If it's any consolation it'll be worse for us! (it's not)
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Oct 21, 2019 22:33
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gh0stpinballa posted:the politeness of the remain protests is surprising given the apocalyptic outcome of a brexit they're promising, why is lebanon and chile experiencing such a vibrant and urgent wave of reaction and remainers are meekly shuffling around westminster at the direction of the police, it's weird. i mean if the math is right we could end up like russia in the 90s with oligarchs fighting open wars in the street to over freshly privatised state assets while headcrackers from the security services quietly step in to cobble together puppet governments whose only goal is clamping down on civil liberties while their asset strippers knock themselves out. EU supergirl and her ukelele just doesn't inspire much revolutionary fervour you know? I suspect that even the majority of pro-EU protestors don't think that this is going to happen, they're protesting because they like the concept of the EU in a fluffy way (and they ignore all of the bad poo poo it does) rather than because of the actual consequences of leaving.
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Oct 21, 2019 23:20
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peanut- posted:The Labour MPs have completely hosed this right? I don’t believe this isn’t exactly the outcome Johnson wanted. Assuming that the next step is an election this is the first time ever where the public will actually have a vote where a non-Remain Brexit option is on the table as an entirely known quantity. You can take every single negative thing about Boris' deal and turn it into a "if you vote for the Tories you definitely get this when Brexit happens" list, it's like the exact opposite of the original "just imagine whatever you like" referendum. Yes this probably isn't the best possible outcome but I think that knowing exactly what's on the table makes a big difference in terms of being able to argue against it in an election. OwlFancier posted:Nice of him to point out whose fault it is, too It's amazing how you actually get significantly better coverage of Brexit news (in purely factual terms) from EU twitter than from any of the UK domestic media jabby posted:I think Corbyn should threaten to remove the whip from rebels, but only when it comes to the crunch. I.e. the third reading of an unamended bill, OR a confidence vote. Agree with this, if there is a 3rd reading it needs to be nuclear (unless some amendment goes through to make it good but that seems ultra unlikely)
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Oct 22, 2019 21:35
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Vitamin P posted:Do you think, even in the back of their lovely brains, that the lib-dem labour right types that have spent 4 years smearing corbs and the labour left acknowledge that without the historical swing we achieved by not being poo poo neolibs for the 2017 election we would have brexited long ago? That without us it would have been a nu-lab robot and the tories would have had a comfortable majority for this whole episode? These people seem to believe that May was a uniquely bad candidate and that literally anyone else would have won a majority and that policies had nothing to do with it, which to be fair is neoliberal as gently caress because they all just want New Improved Tony Blair with extra racism and down punching action to run the country forever. Julio Cruz posted:yeah I don’t see how an immediate election is anything but a good thing for Labour Mildly concerned that a good number of previously apparently normal people have the same opinion as about half of my office, which is that although remaining would be better we have to brexit because the prime minister said so and it's basically illegal to not do what the prime minister says, parliament only exists to help the prime minister do the things they want to do and therefore all of the MPs voting against "brexit right now as fast as possible" are breaking the rules and should be punished.
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Oct 22, 2019 23:05
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I love that they keep trying to contrive ways for no deal to happen and they keep failing in more and more comical ways.
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Oct 24, 2019 20:15
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Necrothatcher posted:While most of the time it makes me a bit nervous, I kind of admire the Corbyn team's willingness to endure bad press in order to achieve a bigger strategic goal. Yeah it's very impressive though in the context of a relentlessly hostile media it makes sense. It's not like they're going to get any sympathetic coverage if they play to the "narrative" instead.
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Oct 24, 2019 20:17
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OwlFancier posted:The lib dem article is basically "I stopped actually being invested in political outcomes and the rest of the country is stupid for not following me into apathy" I mean accepting that good things aren't possible is liberalism.txt so makes sense
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Oct 25, 2019 20:50
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Grey Hunter posted:Just trawling Facebook, and there are three different people attacking Boris today, one of them my pro Brexit uncle. Much like "no deal is better than a bad deal" it turns out that the brexitest, dumbest part of the electorate are really good at remembering slogans you made up just to score a few cheap points. "Die in a ditch" is going to do work I'm sure. OwlFancier posted:I mean I would not credit the government with that level of understanding of how capitalism actually works but yes, the reason unemployment exists is to drive down wages, it is at the very least, desirable for capitalism to have a pool of desperate labour available willing to undercut other labour. Or in more developed countries, literal slave labour in the prison system We have more or less actual prison slave labour in this country, I don't want to go into any detail of how I know about this but there are companies getting work done in prison workshops (at a tiny cost) which would be completely economically impossible otherwise. And this is in sectors where the alternatives are investing in expensive machinery or cutting edge research so it's a definite case of directly holding back the economy from becoming more productive. E: I guess it's not really slave labour since I believe that the prisoners can decline to do it but the alternative is staying in a cell all day and they do get some pathetic amount of pay like a few quid a day, but it fucks up worker power just as badly RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Oct 26, 2019 |
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Oct 26, 2019 12:25
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It boils my piss particularly hard since it's yet another example of the whole praising of the free market being complete hypocritical bollocks much like how people complain about unions choosing to freely take actions to maximise the income of their members even though this is totally in line with free market principles.
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Oct 26, 2019 12:32
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:How can people not see that the tories have now been in power for almost a decade and things have just got worse in just about every walk of life for the 90%? People don't really believe these things, they just kind of have them in their mind as "things which are true" but don't stand up to any scrutiny. Their supposed position only exists in order to allow them to feel morally justified acting in their own naked self interest.
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Oct 26, 2019 14:53
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Venomous posted:Is Boris any better at campaigning? He'll just lie about stuff and the media won't call him out on it which is a type of campaigning I guess
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Oct 26, 2019 18:54
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crispix posted:Just go robbing imo What a spiteful, evil poo poo, holy christ.
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Oct 26, 2019 20:38
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Exioce posted:I'm not angry at anyone here. I just think it is highly unlikely that private property will ever be abolished. It's an ivory tower solution. So you agree that it's a good solution, it's just hard to achieve? I don't think many in the thread will disagree with that analysis, pivoting from there directly to "therefore the housing market is completely fair" seems like a bizarre jump.
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Oct 27, 2019 19:01
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I know it's not unique to this discussion but I am consistently baffled by the thought processes that lead to "this thing is hard to do, therefore it can't be considered a viable end objective". It's like compromising internally with your own ideology?
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Oct 27, 2019 19:31
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