|
mdemone posted:I enjoy when historical fiction swerves into alt history at the last possible moment and you suddenly realize you've been had It makes me so angry I hate it of all things This whole time you've just been *making everything up*? Like a fabulist!? The whole point of historical fiction is the dance of believability and that swerve shatters it
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 18:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 13:28 |
|
|
StumblyWumbly posted:There's a common point between Crichton and Declare that makes it unsatisfying to me. They both take place in essentially the real world, so despite having big stuff happen, it all unravels by the end and essentially nothing changes. It ends up feeling like the message is "Here's some interesting stuff, it will have no impact." World changing events that stick is your base criteria for a satisfying story? mdemone posted:I enjoy when historical fiction swerves into alt history at the last possible moment and you suddenly realize you've been had Examples? I can only think of Inglorious Basterds off the top of my head.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 18:24
|
|
|
Once Upon a Time in Hollywood 
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 18:31
|
|
|
zoux posted:Examples? I can only think of Inglorious Basterds off the top of my head. That's exactly the framework I mean. Didn't Cryptonomicon give up the game near the end?
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 18:31
|
|
|
zoux posted:
Temeraire mostly
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 18:33
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Temeraire mostly
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 18:38
|
|
|
Stephenson's Baroque Cycle definitely has alternate-history aspects of course, while pretending (mostly) to be historical fiction.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 18:41
|
|
|
Ravenfood posted:Temeraire never makes any pretense to being anything other than alt history though? Unless you think "napoleonic war with dragons" counts as historical fiction somehow It begins as an extremely direct rewrite of the Aubrey / Maturin series, except with dragons, which isn't that different from the sort of thing Powers does in Declare. So while there are alt history elements initially it seems to be playing the "we will stay roughly aligned with actual history, except" game that Powers is playing in his fiction. An extraordinarily auspicious beginning and then it fails in that promise rather rapidly and rather dramatically.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 18:46
|
|
|
Ravenfood posted:Unless you think "napoleonic war with dragons" counts as historical fiction somehow I think we should teach the controversy
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 18:46
|
|
|
PeterWeller posted:Once Upon a Time in Hollywood Probably the single greatest example. Tarantino built the tension to unbearable levels, I felt like I was being strangled watching the build up to the murders. And then bam it all works out in the most absurd and beautiful way.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 18:48
|
|
|
I'm open to just being someone who doesn't like historical fiction, but I thought the Baroque Cycle illustrated some parts of history I wasn't familiar with and showed some historical themes that were interesting to me. I feel like Crichton's work (which I haven't read in forever, so maybe its just my high school brain talking) was more about the plot and the plot just circles back on itself.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 18:50
|
|
|
mdemone posted:I enjoy when historical fiction swerves into alt history at the last possible moment and you suddenly realize you've been had Sounds a lot like the show Britannia Hieronymous Alloy posted:It makes me so angry The shattering in Britannia was the best part! Like the whole first season, they carefully tread the line. It was historical fiction where you couldn’t be sure if the supernatural elements were just showing how people imagined poo poo they experienced back then (and drugs—lots and lots of druid drugs) But then the very first episode of the second season BAM the evil Roman general knees Claudius in the balls and tells us he’s gonna bring hell on Earth for absolute loving real. And poo poo only gets weirder from there gently caress I miss that show 
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 19:15
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:It makes me so angry how do you feel about a dozen or so Aubrey-Maturin books taking place in a magical world where 1813 is about 30ish months long
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 19:35
|
|
|
zoux posted:I think we should teach the controversy
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 19:38
|
|
|
If it got me more Aubrey-Maturin, I would gladly accept that the Battle of Trafalgar lasted for seven months and no less than three separate instances of Jack won and lost a fortune several times each during the course of the thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 19:41
|
|
|
https://x.com/Dexerto/status/1780961153981501946
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 20:58
|
|
|
Instructions unclear. Where am I supposed to stuff it?
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 21:00
|
|
|
MockingQuantum posted:how do you feel about a dozen or so Aubrey-Maturin books taking place in a magical world where 1813 is about 30ish months long Look, some things gentlemen just don't talk about
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 21:29
|
|
|
Stuporstar posted:
I miss Plebs
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 21:34
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Look, some things gentlemen just don't talk about Sure, but how do you feel?
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 21:34
|
|
|
I forget who said it but someone's fun theory about the aubrey-maturin time dilation was that Padeen was actually some variety of Fae and was causing time shenanigans.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 21:41
|
|
|
Hey if you debauch a sloth, there's gonna be temporal consequences
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 21:47
|
|
|
Provenance by Ann Leckie - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XW6YTKV/ Revenger (#1) by Alistair Reynolds - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LXW2IUQ/
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2024 22:25
|
|
|
MockingQuantum posted:how do you feel about a dozen or so Aubrey-Maturin books taking place in a magical world where 1813 is about 30ish months long So I'm reading the AM series for the first time and I'll probably start #15 a little later tonight. I'm really enjoying O'Brian's introductions where he was to tell British Naval sweaties "yes, if this sounds familiar, I'm totally ripping off another battle and another guy. Deal with it. Also yes, we're in 1812b right now, the last novel was in 1812a."
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 00:32
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:It makes me so angry Glad I'm not the only one who finds it annoying
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 00:46
|
|
|
Poldarn posted:So I'm reading the AM series for the first time and I'll probably start #15 a little later tonight. I'm really enjoying O'Brian's introductions where he was to tell British Naval sweaties "yes, if this sounds familiar, I'm totally ripping off another battle and another guy. Deal with it. Also yes, we're in 1812b right now, the last novel was in 1812a." Yeah O'Brian wasn't about to let actual history get in the way of telling an excellent story
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 00:46
|
|
|
Benagain posted:I forget who said it but someone's fun theory about the aubrey-maturin time dilation was that Padeen was actually some variety of Fae and was causing time shenanigans. It's somewhere in the A/M thread! https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3393240 And it's a good theory.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 01:26
|
|
|
zoux posted:Lost World was probably the first book I can remember that disappointed me. I remember thinking "this feels like he rushed it out so they could make a Jurassic Park sequel", like many of the scenes seemed tailor-made for movie adaptation. Prey I didn't like very much, and obviously nothing need be said about State of Fear. I mean, if you haven't read Exordia I'd give it a shot. It's got some of the vibe while actually being well written.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 03:13
|
|
|
Regarding Tim Powers, I think my favorite of his is On Stranger Tides, the VERY loose inspiration for Pirates of the Caribbean. It's much more my style. Weird voodoo Blackbeard searching for the fountain of youth.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 13:59
|
|
|
A Proper Uppercut posted:Regarding Tim Powers, I think my favorite of his is On Stranger Tides, the VERY loose inspiration for Pirates of the Caribbean. It's much more my style. Weird voodoo Blackbeard searching for the fountain of youth. In theory I love this. In practice I found it sooo draggy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 14:36
|
|
|
Ben Nevis posted:In theory I love this. In practice I found it sooo draggy. All of powers' books drag a bit for me, until they don't. There's almost always a moment where they click and take off, though a couple never did for me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 15:41
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:All of powers' books drag a bit for me, until they don't. Whereas I found after a third book of his I'm not willing to put up with it any more, because the pay off while rewarding doesn't offset the initial drudgery, and in that time I can churn through a half dozen books for something that's engaging start to finish.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 17:40
|
|
|
The Jagged Orbit by John Brunner - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J5X5O4U/ Cold Iron (Masters & Mages #1) by Miles Cameron - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079L5669Y/
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2024 22:19
|
|
|
Miles Cameron has been very hit or miss for me, no inbetween hit: the red knight & artifact space miss: masters & mages, age of bronze
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2024 00:08
|
|
|
Ben Nevis posted:In theory I love this. In practice I found it sooo draggy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2024 00:12
|
|
|
I did listen to the audiobooks, they're very well narrated by Bronson Pinchot, so that may have gotten me through some of the parts that may have otherwise dragged for me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2024 01:26
|
|
|
Powers’ entire schtick is spending half the book on setup so that all the pieces come together in the second half. I like it enough I’ve read most of his novels.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2024 01:34
|
|
|
There was some discussion in here a couple weeks back about a movie, The Empty Man, that people were pretty enthused about. I've just paused watching it to ask the folks who liked it: if I've realized basically from the start of the film that this is a tulpa story, with everything that implies about its progression and resolution, am I still going to get much out of the rest of this surprisingly long movie?
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2024 04:04
|
|
|
Kestral posted:There was some discussion in here a couple weeks back about a movie, The Empty Man, that people were pretty enthused about. I've just paused watching it to ask the folks who liked it: if I've realized basically from the start of the film that this is a tulpa story, with everything that implies about its progression and resolution, am I still going to get much out of the rest of this surprisingly long movie? I also worked it out pretty early and I still enjoyed the rest of the film. It didn't really feel like a story that was reliant on a twist, and watching the pieces start to fall into place for the characters was fun
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2024 06:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 13:28 |
|
|
zoux posted:Examples? I can only think of Inglorious Basterds off the top of my head. Europe in Autumn is about a Estonian chef becoming a spy-courier in a "30 minutes in the future" setting where everybody else in Europe, including EURail, decided to do Brexit too, and then only at the very end does it introduce the supernatural stuff.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2024 11:18
|
|