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thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
fandom is messy bitches all the way down

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thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

HopperUK posted:

CJ Cherryh in some of her books writes just excellent prose. Clear, evocative, sweeps you into the world. I was blown away by Finity's End when I read it. She isn't flashy but she's effortless.

Cherry is often mentioned together with Julie Czerneda (or is it the other way?). I always preferred the latter; great worldbuilding, a delightful focus on alien worlds and likeable characters. I don't know much about "style" though.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

Aardvark! posted:

Any recommendations for Czerneda? I've never read her but she sounds up my alley.

I think the Web Shifters and Species Imperative trilogies are her best. The former is told from the perspective of a shapeshifting alien that a lot of fans really like. The latter trilogy is more polished, has more politics and some really great twists. Can't go wrong with either one, but Beholder's Eye from the Web Shifters trilogy was the first book I bought with my own money so it has a special place in my heart.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

StrixNebulosa posted:

Not gonna lie, it's been.... interesting being both extremely left politically and someone who enjoys reading military porn, especially sci-fi military porn. The trappings of a functioning military with all the hardware and training is cool, but the function of it in real life is not, and it's an ongoing struggle to find media that has the fun of that that isn't slanted too far to the right. David Drake is about the closest I've gotten - him and Glen Cook.

Vorkosigan Saga... maybe?

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
I finished Banks's Excession after having bounced off it a decade ago. I love Player of Games, but the decision of having the Culture front and center in Excession just seems kind of self-indulgent. There's already too many humanoid characters, never mind the sprawling roster of ships. Trying to parse their messages for conspiracies and allegiances is pretty annoying.

There was some pretty fun stuff in the book though. It managed to hold my attention.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

Aardvark! posted:

this poo poo SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!

heres a different topic: I'm reading Beholder's Eye by Julie Czerneda and I'm actually struggling a little bit here at the 60% mark.


Absolutely love the premise, love the alien cultures, like Esen just fine, but

I don't like how Paul Ragem wouldn't take "No" for an answer over and over and over. And then calls her "Es"/"Esen" over and over on the ship that is literally hunting her. But it seems like he's being written as the main human character/partner of Esen and not a loving creep like he is in my mind at this point. I keep wishing she would ditch him.


Pretty dumb but kinda hunky guys who need to be taught right by the female (?ish?) protagonist might be a weakness of Czernedas... It's been a while since I read this particular book, but these guys generally don't take up much of the books.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
The problem with the Minds is that they're so stupid. Sure, they can make a great many decisions very quickly, but their decisions are never really shown to be particularly clever. They're often at odds with each other, and their petty plots and squabbling are the same as any human; the scale is just bigger. I guess it's kind of impossible to write a Mind that comes across as smarter than the author, but it makes for a weird plot hole.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

General Battuta posted:

That's not a plot hole!

A weird inconsistency that goes against the flow of logic established in the story? I guess there might be a better word for it than plot hole. It breaks my suspension of disbelief at least.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

branedotorg posted:

Or that Utopia is enough for a long time, for most people, but eventually you either go into storage or radically reinvent yourself.

Even post-scarcity and almost no death gets boring eventually

It's a weirdly pessimistic take compared to something like Star Trek: The Next Generation, where improving oneself and the human condition is how humans stay fulfilled in a post-scarcity society. The culture books have this conceit that the minds of the Culture have basically explored pretty much everything already and is teetering on the edge of simply leaving this plane of existence, but eschewing it as some kind of cop-out.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

Lt. Danger posted:

some criticism I have heard of the Culture from a left-perspective is that, like Star Trek, it's merely a post-scarcity utopia - liberalism rather than communism, with all the humans as bourgeoisie

It depends on the episode, and of course, series; "The Neutral Zone" from The Next Generation seems pretty overtly communist to me, while many DS9 episodes are not utopian at all. Star Trek has a decidedly liberal bent, one that adjusts with the times of the various shows (DS9 gets a lot more hawkish), but for the most part the utopia it presents is one where money has been done away with, humans are no longer concerned with accumulating property and material possessions, and work is done because you want to.

thotsky fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Mar 7, 2021

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
It was dumb when the male protagonist in Excession is a secret rear end in a top hat. It was really dumb when his great moral failing was cheating on his girlfriend. It's super dumb when she attempts to murder him by cutting out his uterus, but he's cool with that. I thought Use of Weapons was good, but now I am expecting all the male protagonists of the Culture books to have secret moral failings that will be dramatically revealed at the end of the book.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
I enjoyed Player of Games and Use of Weapons a lot, but Consider Phlebas and Excession were mediocre. I don't expect I'll read much more Banks.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
Is there any good SF about black holes? I am fascinated by them as pure expressions of power. Like, they don't have to be portals or unlock time travel or whatever, they're plenty menacing and mysterious on their own.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

pseudorandom name posted:

The Hugos have been mostly good for the same length of time, although there’s been a few years recently when the neofascists have rigged the vote enough to skew the results.

The sad puppies campaigns have at best managed to impact the nominations, with most of those "victories" then getting voted into oblivion. The only award winners to have appeared on their lists seem pretty unconnected to their agenda or outright in conflict with their stated goals, being Guardians of the Galaxy and, you know, works by women of color.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
Basically, he's saying it was not his decision, but also he does not think it's that terrible. If you believe him it's a pretty good defense; it's difficult to be outraged that some stranger has bad taste.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
Charles Stross have had some other clunkers too.

These look like programming books or powerpoint presentations.




This one looks like a stock image somebody would use in a piece of news about computer security.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
lol, you were all discussing a book in good faith; why do you have to make it into a cold war standoff

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
Yep, either through a "supporting membership" or by going to Worldcon. It's been many years since I last went, but it was fun, worth considering if COVID ever lets up.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
I don't really want to vote for a sequel; it seems like it would be a waste even in series where each work is standalone and outright annoying if you pick up a winner in the shop only to find that it is the second in a series and you need to go get the first one. Introducing new works and preferably new authors should be a priority.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
I think most, but not all, of the Discworld books gave me at least one solid chuckle. That's still fewer solid jokes in 35+ books than in one comedy special. Mostly they're interesting and enjoyable and make me smile.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
Vatta's War is alright. I'm not sure I'd call it space truckers; it's Honor Harrington but better.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

darkgray posted:

Hi guys, my Kindle recommended this exciting book to me, and I was wondering if anyone happened to have read it and could tell me if it's as good as the blurb says.



It's great, but you should start on the first book of the series.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
high fantasy: elves and magic
low fantasy: daggers and horseshit

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

wizzardstaff posted:

Is there ANY series where this doesn’t hold true? Publication order is always best.

The Vorkosigan saga. I think internal chronological order is best, except you skip the Cordelia books, start at The Warriors Apprentice and read the Cordelia books later as a sort of prequel.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
A very cheap spotify-like service might work, but that's really just my library and taxes when you think about it. If I can't wait for the library to get me my book pirating whatever it is for my old-rear end kindle would (hypothetically) be easier than buying it, which is the only metric that really matters. It might be different for Americans who're fully connected to the Amazon service with one-click shopping and all that.

I think buying comic omnibuses and collectors editions and poo poo still has a lot of merit, but single volumes seem more suited for library borrowing and single chapters really only makes sense online these days.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
I bounced off The Blade Itself so hard it made a noise. Seems like a good example of "low fantasy" though.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

Armauk posted:

What made you bounce?

I can't say for sure, or at least I don't remember. Granted, I am not a big fantasy fan; I think the only stuff I have enjoyed enough for it to stick with me are Brust's Taltos stuff, and I guess Discworld, if you would count that.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

Copernic posted:

I think its possible to be sympathetic both to Fall and to readers who have a negative, visceral reaction to slurs they may well have encountered in their own lives. Does anyone really support the title? Fall changed the title!

Like, half of all queer fiction/poetry/biographies have some slur in the title. "Queer" itself is a slur. What is this argument? A trans person playing with a right-wing meme is not particularly surprising, a bit of controversy was probably the point, but the reaction was out of proportion.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
The problem is not self-published books; it's self-published authors.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

quantumfoam posted:

More details for people, this plot synopsis (from a SFL Archives poster) sound familiar to anyone who read READY PLAYER ONE?

Sir Mary de Courcy (or, in real life, Mary Craven) makes her living
jousting in a VR gameworld of the Middle Ages. When she defeats the
overconfident Grey Knight of the Sea in a joust and then in single combat,
he hands over to her as his ransom the manor called Saint Chad's-on-Wye,
which, later on, she discovers isn't an authorized part of the gameworld.
Meanwhile, in the flesh, someone is trying to kill her: her plane crashes,
she's run off the road, someone breaks into her house and a concrete block
nearly smashes her. With the help of the creator of the VR gameworld, she
explores Saint Chad's-on-Wye, and the attempts on her life and a popular
fantasy novel whose author has refused to license his work for VR seem to
tie in with the manor somehow.

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?993
A Point of Honor by Dorothy J Heydt

While looking for that specific synopsis post discovered that Dorothy Heydt has been a SFLer for at least two years, and also saw what appears to be Karen Traviss posting in the SFL Archives tool, a good 6+ years before Traviss switched over to becoming a a SFF author full time.

Hints of Rainbows End. Not surprised novels with VR/AR gaming have a lot in common.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
The Taltos books are probably the only fantasy novels I have actually liked rather than merely tolerated. I don't count Discworld as fantasy.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

BananaNutkins posted:

This is a tangent and I'm not spoiling for a fight, but isn't it sexist and presumptive to suggest to someone to read more female authors?

lol

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
The Vorkosigan Saga is great because much like the Discworld books as the series goes on she starts experimenting with various genres to keep things fresh.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
Unless you have a very strong preference for female protagonists I recommend starting with The Warrior's Apprentice and read the books in internal chronological order from then on. The Cordelia books work best as a prequel you can drop in whenever, maybe right after The Vor Game.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
Seeing as how fanfiction definitely written as a masturbatory exercise by the author keeps getting published with the serial numbers filed off this seems like a dumb, and self-aggrandizing argument.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

neongrey posted:

The Watch books honestly feel the most explicitly hopeful to me out of any Discworld books if for no other reason than it's quite explicitly taking the concept of ACAB seriously but then asks "... but what if they didn't want to be bastards anymore?" which is really something you need the lens of fantasy for. That sounds glib and it is a little but its also something you need to have a designed/written society for just to make it even possible to take the notion very far. I love sociological fantasy so that's a lot of why the watch are my favourite subseries.

It's been a while since I reread them, but their transformation to a functional, or rather, militarized and well-funded police force capable of bringing down a dragon, going through a liberal inclusivity reform so you might be getting your head kicked in by a multicultural group of guard officers, remaining at the beck and call of Vetinari throughout and defusing any revolutionary potential by making the guard leadership a member of the bourgeoisie is kind of peak ACAB.

thotsky fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Aug 18, 2021

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
The first couple of Dresden Files books are a bit amateurish, but the series does settle into a pretty competent rhythm that fans of stuff like Buffy: The Vampire Slayer might like.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

Ccs posted:

I didn't get through the first Dresden book but I'd heard bits and pieces about his misogyny throughout the years. What I found interesting is he actually knows he's a misogynist. Like he remarks about women and does stuff he thinks is chivalrous and always thinks "yeah the women hate when I do this but that's just how I am." It's so strange. I guess it's the author going "I'm going to write this hardboiled detective type character and he has all the flaws that old hardboiled detectives had, but because we're in modern times he's going to know that what he's doing is either wrong or old fashioned. But he's still going to do them, because that's part of his character."

Which.... I mean, I've read a lot of book with horrible characters as protagonists. Everyone in The First Law is some sort of misogynist. Most men in Song of Ice and Fire don't think much of women. Dresden I think gets picked out as a particular problem because he's being so misogynist in the modern day, where he should know better. I didn't find his misogyny unrealistic though, considering the kind of men there are in the world, but it can get tiresome to read a book where he's the only viewpoint character and held up as the (flawed) hero.

This would be more acceptable if it was an actual flaw. At least half of the time it's played as a lovable quirk, and never really seems to get him into trouble, or at least, not trouble he can't heroically defeat.

There's less of it as the series goes along, but it's brought up almost every time Dresden has to save a woman in distress, or leave a woman behind for their safety.

Perhaps the author feels like the self-awareness excuses the clichés somewhat, but anyone reading urban fantasy probably tolerates those.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

StrixNebulosa posted:

The problem with Cultist Simulator is that it’s made by Alexis Kennedy, notorious sexual harasser who preyed on the women in junior positions in his company.

The problem with Cultist Simulator is that it requires you to go through the same, very repetitive grind every time you have to start over or want to go for a different path. What you are describing is the problem with Alexis Kennedy.

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thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
I really enjoyed Pyramids. I read it at the beach during summer vacation, and I was fifteen so the memories associated with it quite vivid. I can feel the heat of the sun on my skin just thinking about the book, weird but nice.

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