Joker (This Thread Made by Gang Weed)

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just another: Oct 16, 2009; these dead towns that make the maps wrong now

I just watched Taxi Driver a few weeks ago and I did not get Taxi Driver vibes from it beyond the aesthetic of grungy post-prosperity New York. Arthur Peck and Travis Bickle have almost nothing in common that you couldn't also say about a dozen other antiheroes.

# ¿ Oct 4, 2019 05:53

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 09:16

just another: Oct 16, 2009; these dead towns that make the maps wrong now

Obstacle2 posted:

You might not see it but everyone else does. Have you seen King of Comedy?

The film basically outright says that the Joker is just De Niro's character from both these films. Scorcese should have gotten a credit.

Haven't watched King of Comedy, no.

I also see the superficial similarities but it breaks down at any deeper level.

Bickle hates Palantine because he's the other man in Betsy's life. Arthur hates Thomas Wayne because he's another source of rejection and derision, albeit a more intimate one because of his mother's claims.

Arthur knows he's mentally ill. Bickle doesn't. Arthur cares for his mother. Bickle lives alone.

Bickle thinks he's saving someone. Arthur doesn't. Arthur wants to make connections with people. Bickle isolates himself.

Bickle hates degeneracy. Arthur hates impoliteness. Bickle is a tourist to the seedy underbelly of the city. Arthur is victimized by it.

Bickle fantasizes about taking control through violence and rehearses acts of violence. Arthur is almost always acting spontaneously and without foresight; he becomes increasingly violent because he sees that he's rewarded for it. The only thing he rehearses or fantasizes about are adulation, affirmation and suicide.

Bickle sets out to kill Palantine, and is thwarted. Arthur sets out to reconcile with Wayne.

Bickle may be delusional but the audience knows what's happening. Everything in Joker comes with a disclaimer.

Taxi Driver ends with Bickle narrowly surviving and affirmed by legitimate society as a hero. Joker ends with Arthur embracing life as a monster.

The similarities begin and end with them being violent, self-destructive white dudes set against a backdrop of urban decay, with a progressive politician as a story focus. It's not an interesting or accurate analysis. It'd be like calling Scream a lazy ripoff of Halloween.

# ¿ Oct 4, 2019 06:54

just another: Oct 16, 2009; these dead towns that make the maps wrong now

Judakel posted:

The similarities are in mood, tone, atmosphere, etc. It is derivative to the point of plagiarism.

Uh huh. Well, universalize those principles and let me know which films survive scrutiny.

Calling a movie derivative in "mood, tone, atmosphere" is meaningless to me. It sounds like you're reinventing the concept of genre.

# ¿ Oct 4, 2019 08:07