- Judakel
- Jul 29, 2004
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Can't post for 9 years!
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It literally is just a Taxi Driver/ King of Comedy rip-off. Or at least it makes gestures towards being that type of film. It actually has nothing to say.
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Oct 4, 2019 05:25
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May 14, 2024 18:35
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- Judakel
- Jul 29, 2004
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Can't post for 9 years!
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It’s probably not a coincidence that DeNiro was cast in this.
Yeah he essentially plays Jerry Lewis's role.
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Oct 4, 2019 05:58
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- Judakel
- Jul 29, 2004
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Can't post for 9 years!
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Haven't watched King of Comedy, no.
I also see the superficial similarities but it breaks down at any deeper level.
Bickle hates Palantine because he's the other man in Betsy's life. Arthur hates Thomas Wayne because he's another source of rejection and derision, albeit a more intimate one because of his mother's claims.
Arthur knows he's mentally ill. Bickle doesn't. Arthur cares for his mother. Bickle lives alone.
Bickle thinks he's saving someone. Arthur doesn't. Arthur wants to make connections with people. Bickle isolates himself.
Bickle hates degeneracy. Arthur hates impoliteness. Bickle is a tourist to the seedy underbelly of the city. Arthur is victimized by it.
Bickle fantasizes about taking control through violence and rehearses acts of violence. Arthur is almost always acting spontaneously and without foresight; he becomes increasingly violent because he sees that he's rewarded for it. The only thing he rehearses or fantasizes about are adulation, affirmation and suicide.
Bickle sets out to kill Palantine, and is thwarted. Arthur sets out to reconcile with Wayne.
Bickle may be delusional but the audience knows what's happening. Everything in Joker comes with a disclaimer.
Taxi Driver ends with Bickle narrowly surviving and affirmed by legitimate society as a hero. Joker ends with Arthur embracing life as a monster.
The similarities begin and end with them being violent, self-destructive white dudes set against a backdrop of urban decay, with a progressive politician as a story focus. It's not an interesting or accurate analysis. It'd be like calling Scream a lazy ripoff of Halloween.
The similarities are in mood, tone, atmosphere, etc. It is derivative to the point of plagiarism.
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Oct 4, 2019 07:49
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- Judakel
- Jul 29, 2004
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Can't post for 9 years!
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Uh huh. Well, universalize those principles and let me know which films survive scrutiny.
Calling a movie derivative in "mood, tone, atmosphere" is meaningless to me. It sounds like you're reinventing the concept of genre.
It sounds like you haven't compared these two films. Genre is largely a fiction anyway, so the idea that we need to stick by some arbitrary standards is absurd. Mood, tone, and atmosphere can all be very specific to a film and when considered together. If that is meaningless to you, then you should probably watch movies a little more closely.
the entire marketing of the movie focused on the parallels. the genre is 'scorcese movie'.
From the 1970s, to be exact.
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Oct 4, 2019 19:13
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- Judakel
- Jul 29, 2004
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Can't post for 9 years!
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I think to summarise my gripes.
This wasn't so much of a Joker, fall-from-grace into nihilistic, evil genius character as it was watching a mentally ill guy doing bad stuff because he got dealt a bad hand.
AKA: They kinda turned the Joker into somebody who fits the profile of most typical spree shooters. Which is topical and all, but doesn't quite fit that "Joker" niche.
Yeah, they really were just aping Taxi Driver in this regard in particular. They worked backwards, customized the character a bit, but hit the same thematic beats in a more cynical and juvenile way. Joker isn't Arthur. Really, you can't do a character study of the Joker, because anyone in the process of going crazy is ultimately pathetic upon close inspection. He has to be completely indecipherable and too far gone to study. WB was desperate when they green-lit this and they continue to lack any clear vision as to what their cinematic universe is going to be, so why not give it a shot?
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Oct 6, 2019 03:36
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Oct 4, 2019 05:25
