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i think you have to go back in history to the 19th century really. mexico was long ruled by these hacienda landlords who were like mega-super-duper landlords controlling swathes of the country, eventually wiped out by two revolutions, first against a french-backed monarchy and the second during the early 20th century. revolutionaries and bandits could often be the same people and were like robin hood figures then. land reform was also the main issue. the PRI, originally a left-wing nationalist sort of party, ruled mexico for the rest of the 20th century and developed a vertically-integrated clientistic form of government. like developmental state capitalism, for most of it, with a turn toward neoliberalism later. this was of course corrupt and the government made deals with the drug cartels -- the guadalajara cartel was the big kahuna back then -- to keep things steady. so when the PAN came into power in 2000 the whole situation started coming unglued but really with the unraveling and dislocation of the old PRI patronage networks. we're talking governors, mayors, police, the local utility company, whatever. who is what and who was paying who, which is bound up in the whole political situation is in flux and so is the corruption. i am not mexican although i have some relatives with ties there, but anyways i think part of it is also rooting for the local bad boys against the rival bad boys moving into the turf since it started looking like a free for all out there. like if you want to gently caress with a rival cartel your crew rolls in deep and just shoots up the town, that kind of thing. or they throw a grenade in a nightclub, or roll a few severed heads onto the dance floor to freak people out. and the local cartel becomes the "defender" of the people there. regional identities play into it: sinaloa obviously. the CJNG from jalisco which i think absorbed la familia michoacana... zetas in the east... and the criminal economy is a thing, right? like even if you're not involved, maybe your cousin is, in some places. like in texas on the border people don't openly talk about it but everyone knows someone who is kinda, you know, he moves a little weed or whatever. the only difference is the scale where he's moving a few pounds a month but that's actually pretty small BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 15:04 on Oct 19, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 14:50
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People should go watch that movie Sicario. The OG cartel boss at the end even admits they learned these brutal tactics and acquired these weapons from America aka the alphabet agencies And then Mexico got mad at the movie for being right about the violence in cuidad Juarez / El Paso
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Oct 19, 2019 16:58
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Atrocious Joe posted:
yeah, los sinaloenses operate a more complete patronage network than, say, the zetas. they're a significant source of employment in the state and will just give handouts to old ladies, etc. it's a PR war as much as anything, nobody in culiacan is going to start a mass movement against them because they're popular
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Oct 19, 2019 18:05
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There's also a difference between like hubs or headquarters and the border. There is straight mass killings on the border because it's a literal war for territory and there's money on the line. People that live in the turf-war trafficking towns hate the cartels generally, people elsewhere have different relationship.
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Oct 19, 2019 18:27
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Frijolero posted:Good why ok his capture in the first place then. also despite haing full control of congress he hasnt done anything cool like legalize pot or gay marriage. its been a big disappointment for me so far
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Oct 19, 2019 19:03
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it does feel legislatively sluggish. i know he promised to stop the privatization slide of pemex, has anything happened there?
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Oct 19, 2019 19:09
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babypolis posted:why ok his capture in the first place then. also despite haing full control of congress he hasnt done anything cool like legalize pot or gay marriage. its been a big disappointment for me so far I don't know. I wish he had already, but then again, and I know we live in dystopia speedrun, but it hasn't even been a year since they took power. I'm still keeping a wait-and-see mentality with him.
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Oct 19, 2019 19:13
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Also, detaining and prosecuting cartel leaders is always a viable strategy. You can't go to war with them, but there still needs to be high-level takedowns. Where AMLO is good is his insistence that low-level drug users and pushers should not be criminalized and detained forever. Dunno how well he's done that, but it's the correct take.
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Oct 19, 2019 19:21
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i find the cartels and their ambiguous relationship with centres of "legitimate" power so loving interesting, so many good posts itt
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Oct 20, 2019 01:46
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President Walls is gonna fix Mexico any time guys. We'll send some more spooks down there and I'm sure everything will turn out great
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Oct 20, 2019 01:54
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tylersayten posted:People should go watch that movie Sicario. The OG cartel boss at the end even admits they learned these brutal tactics and acquired these weapons from America aka the alphabet agencies
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Oct 20, 2019 02:12
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gh0stpinballa posted:i find the cartels and their ambiguous relationship with centres of "legitimate" power so loving interesting, so many good posts itt
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Oct 20, 2019 04:51
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gh0stpinballa posted:i find the cartels and their ambiguous relationship with centres of "legitimate" power so loving interesting, so many good posts itt Well, I guess that makes all the mass killings worth it.
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Oct 20, 2019 12:48
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Alhazred posted:Well, I guess that makes all the mass killings worth it. in which alhazred appears to think being interested in a thing = thinking a thing is good, huge baby brain vibes from alhazred here
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Oct 20, 2019 12:58
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Can anyone recommend a book that would give me a good overview of Mexican history?
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Oct 20, 2019 13:22
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twoday posted:Can anyone recommend a book that would give me a good overview of Mexican history? No but the Revolutions podcast wrapped up it's Mexican Revolution podcast last year. It was pretty good.
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Oct 20, 2019 13:40
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gh0stpinballa posted:in which alhazred appears to think being interested in a thing = thinking a thing is good, huge baby brain vibes from alhazred here So many people got killed so you could read good posts in this thread. I'm just glad they didn't die in vain.
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Oct 20, 2019 14:07
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Alhazred posted:So many people got killed so you could read good posts in this thread. I'm just glad they didn't die in vain. the blood is on your hands. you are also reading the post in this thread.
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Oct 20, 2019 14:08
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how amny people had to die for you to make that burn you sick gently caress
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Oct 20, 2019 14:08
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:No but the Revolutions podcast wrapped up it's Mexican Revolution podcast last year. It was pretty good. I'll second this, it really was eye opening. Porfirio Diaz's line about Mexico being "so far from God, so close to the United States" feels a million percent accurate
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Oct 20, 2019 14:15
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Alhazred posted:So many people got killed so you could read good posts in this thread. I'm just glad they didn't die in vain. this is amazing
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Oct 20, 2019 14:18
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twoday posted:Can anyone recommend a book that would give me a good overview of Mexican history? I would also recommend the documentary Patria on Netflix covering the War of Reform and also smash & grab attempt by the french with executed failson Maximilian. 
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Oct 20, 2019 14:22
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Alhazred posted:Well, I guess that makes all the mass killings worth it. *gladiator scene* are you not interested?
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Oct 20, 2019 19:07
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Alhazred posted:Well, I guess that makes all the mass killings worth it. we have a whole other forum for brain damaged liberal posting
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Oct 20, 2019 19:09
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etalian posted:I would also recommend the documentary Patria on Netflix covering the War of Reform and also smash & grab attempt by the french with executed failson Maximilian. thanks for this, these years are amazing and almost totally forgotten outside mexico Alhazred posted:So many people got killed so you could read good posts in this thread. I'm just glad they didn't die in vain. jajajajajajaja
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Oct 20, 2019 20:25
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i say swears online posted:thanks for this, these years are amazing and almost totally forgotten outside mexico Patria is really great compact documentary and visits to historical sites such as the spot where Maximilian made his last stand.
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Oct 20, 2019 21:38
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Cool, thanks! Podcasts and documentaries are great, I will check that stuff out. I love history but in the case of Mexico most of what I know is pre-Columbian, and I want to fill that 500 year gap in my knowledge Is there anything someone can recommend that would catch me up on the last few decades and what’s going on in the present day?
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Oct 20, 2019 21:58
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the overarching theme since the mid-80's is the insatiable demand for cocaine in the US, the rise of competing, violent cartels, the PRI's turn toward neoliberalism, and their corresponding election losses to the catholic right and a revitalized working-class left. i also would like a good primer, since what i know feels like a giant jumble of second-hand accounts from friends
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Oct 20, 2019 22:18
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how does ethnicity function in mexico? it seems like there's a significant segment of the population that are still phenotypically european but mexicans seem to have a cohesive sense of national identity that doesn't involve the massive chip on their shoulder that argentinains have from what i understand spaniards mistreating criollos is part of what precipitated the mexican revolution? also i guess they had an indigenous president or PM in the mid 19th century cargo cult has issued a correction as of 06:14 on Oct 23, 2019 |
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Oct 23, 2019 06:12
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i know people in the desert states (rural areas northwest of monterrey in coahuila who tout spanish and surprisingly jewish heritage) that refer to southern mexicans and indiginos as "oompa loompas", so,
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Oct 23, 2019 08:10
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in my limited experience it's completely the same as American racism: entirely based on skin color and nonsensical family histories, but largely not much different than normal classism unless you meet a neonazi of some flavor
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Oct 23, 2019 09:31
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just calculate where you are on the racism grid 
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Oct 23, 2019 09:47
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i'm the child doing progressively difficult labor
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Oct 23, 2019 10:17
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-50299562
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Nov 5, 2019 11:02
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Alhazred posted:So many people got killed so you could read good posts in this thread. I'm just glad they didn't die in vain. power grows from the opening post of a thread
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Nov 5, 2019 15:05
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 https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40626923-el-norte
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Nov 5, 2019 15:25
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they killed some folks
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Nov 5, 2019 21:16
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The LeBarons are murderous sex freaks https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/fundamentalist-mormon-polygamist-under-investigation-for-murder-in-mexico-124379/
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Nov 5, 2019 21:26
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Frijolero posted:The LeBarons are murderous sex freaks ahahahaha, hell yes. If the story was only some milquetoast white people getting blasted it would have been hella boring
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Nov 5, 2019 21:53
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Shoutout to the noble cartels for ridding a nice town of loathsome gringo cultists
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Nov 5, 2019 22:17
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