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Franchescanado posted:This is my favorite movie of the year, so I'll elaborate on a few points. Thanks for this; I'll keep these points in mind when I get around to re-watching it. Upon reflection, it does make more sense as a criticism or takedown of the stoner-comedy genre, rather than an attempt at a straightforward addition. That's what I and my friend who I watched it with went in expecting, and I guess we weren't ready to have our expectations subverted. I suppose the celebrity culture/reality-TV criticism is the throughline to focus on. Which of Korine's other films can you recommend, if I want to break into his back catalog? I missed Spring Breakers, partly because James Franco usually makes me 
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Jan 2, 2020 02:04
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I'll pull one out of my rear end I watched recently that I was semi-excited for: The Salvation starring Mads Mikkelsen and Jeffrey Dean Morgan in a rootin' tootin' western! Sounds like a perfect movie, how could this go wrong? Oh my god. Talk about... this is... not even a B movie. This is a D movie. It's so loving cheap, the CGI is so over the top bad - they couldn't afford a real set so they just CGI in all these buildings, night, rain, you name it. The color grading is so over the top, and the plot is just... needlessly grim and been done a million times before. What the fuuuuck. Oh well, at least it's to set up an awesome climax, right? Haha, gently caress you! Mads sits in a burned out house for like 80% of it and they cut away from anything good happening. It's so loving unfufilling, so cheap, I was nearly puking in my mouth by the end of it.
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Jan 2, 2020 02:07
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General Dog posted:American Sniper is a a pretty un-nuanced portrayal of the Iraq War, but I think calling any of his movies explicitly racist is kind of ungenerous. There's a running theme of old white man caught up in foreigners and people of color gangbanging on his front lawn or old white man caught in drug work for Mexican cartels or white soldier man going to fight war to snipe people in a different country and then there's the weirdness with Richard Jewell where he has a female reporter sleep with someone for confidential info that never happened and yet try to promote it as if it is "the world will know the real story" Maybe you're right it's ungenerous. Maybe I am missing a point and he's trying to use the stereotype of the white man caught up in foreigner stuff to subvert and show they're not any better. I think he's found his target audience of older white generation his age.
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Jan 2, 2020 02:18
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Clint Eastwood is trying his hardest to be a geriatric Jim Carrey.  Let me tell ya something!
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Jan 2, 2020 02:29
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istewart posted:Thanks for this; I'll keep these points in mind when I get around to re-watching it. Upon reflection, it does make more sense as a criticism or takedown of the stoner-comedy genre, rather than an attempt at a straightforward addition. That's what I and my friend who I watched it with went in expecting, and I guess we weren't ready to have our expectations subverted. I suppose the celebrity culture/reality-TV criticism is the throughline to focus on. Which of Korine's other films can you recommend, if I want to break into his back catalog? I missed Spring Breakers, partly because James Franco usually makes me I have only seen Spring Breakers and The Beach Bum, but the take I get is that Korine just kinda presents these characters and wants you to make up your mind. Like I have a specific interpretation of Spring Breakers (it's like the anti-Last House on the Left/Virgin Spring), but he's similar to Cronenberg in that he isn't doling out moral judgements while the action unfolds. He's just kinda interested in weird ways people live.
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Jan 2, 2020 02:58
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The Cronenberg comparison is pretty apt and made me realize I really want a Harmony Korine horror movie.
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Jan 2, 2020 03:01
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istewart posted:Thanks for this; I'll keep these points in mind when I get around to re-watching it. Upon reflection, it does make more sense as a criticism or takedown of the stoner-comedy genre, rather than an attempt at a straightforward addition. That's what I and my friend who I watched it with went in expecting, and I guess we weren't ready to have our expectations subverted. I suppose the celebrity culture/reality-TV criticism is the throughline to focus on. Which of Korine's other films can you recommend, if I want to break into his back catalog? I missed Spring Breakers, partly because James Franco usually makes me All of Korine's films are worth watching. I'll try and break them down simply so you can pick. Spring Breakers is a crime film corrupted by World Star Videos, video games, Brittney Spears, Riff Raff, Girls Gone Wild, modern MTV. James Franco is a sleazy hip-hop artist named Alien, who acts kinda like a Faustian devil for the Spring Break girls, inviting them to join him in his crimes. It rules. Mister Lonely is Korine's most sentimental film, about a Michael Jackson impersonator who tries to find his place in secluded a group of impersonators. It's about an outsider having an existential crisis. There is a subplot about nuns and Werner Herzog is hilarious in it. It's pretty straightforward, and doesn't have the disturbing content that is prevalent in every other Korine film. GUMMO is a bizarre coming-of-age story. It's kinda like a 90's era Linklater film that likes huffing glue and sleeping in the woods. There's no major plot. It's a showcase of bizarre characters and the town they live in. Julian Donkey-Boy is a film about a young man who has undiagnosed schizophrenia living with his family, including his abusive father (played by Werner Herzog). It's Korine's most ambitious film and most disturbing film. It's hard to describe how creative this film is, but it feels very bleak. I think it is Korine's greatest film. Trash Humpers is a darkly comedic VHS tone poem of depravity, anarchy, and hedonistic sadism. It is a found-footage film of a group of elderly deviants harassing each other, causing mischief, stealing, destroying things, and killing people. It is a satire of YouTube culture, WorldStar Videos, and reality television. Maxwell Lord posted:I have only seen Spring Breakers and The Beach Bum, but the take I get is that Korine just kinda presents these characters and wants you to make up your mind. Like I have a specific interpretation of Spring Breakers (it's like the anti-Last House on the Left/Virgin Spring), but he's similar to Cronenberg in that he isn't doling out moral judgements while the action unfolds. He's just kinda interested in weird ways people live.  You get it!
Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 03:06
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Gatts posted:There's a running theme of old white man caught up in foreigners and people of color gangbanging on his front lawn or old white man caught in drug work for Mexican cartels or white soldier man going to fight war to snipe people in a different country and then there's the weirdness with Richard Jewell where he has a female reporter sleep with someone for confidential info that never happened and yet try to promote it as if it is "the world will know the real story" It's not explicit racism by any means, but there has always been a lot of implicit racism throughout Eastwood's career. Dirty Harry basically jumpstarted the not-so-subtley racist trend of late 70s and early 80s "tough on crime" action flicks where a bitter old white dude solves America's crime problems (which are always due to minorities, who commit random and abhorrent acts of violence not because of poverty or social motivations, but because they are just cruel by nature) by blasting away thugs with a gun. It is the same kind of subtle racism that the NRA peddles to sell guns to morons by making them fearful of random break-ins and attacks by evil minorities (I worked at a gun store for 3 years and I can tell you, most of the people buying for "self defense" had delusional fantasies of this kind of thing happening). One can do a pretty thorough breakdown of how Eastwood's film represent the worst thoughts and impulses of a culture of toxic masculinity and racism among older white men in America. I hope I'm not derailing this thread by getting too political...
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Jan 2, 2020 03:15
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MinisterSinister posted:It's not explicit racism by any means, but there has always been a lot of implicit racism throughout Eastwood's career. Dirty Harry basically jumpstarted the not-so-subtley racist trend of late 70s and early 80s "tough on crime" action flicks where a bitter old white dude solves America's crime problems (which are always due to minorities, who commit random and abhorrent acts of violence not because of poverty or social motivations, but because they are just cruel by nature) by blasting away thugs with a gun. It is the same kind of subtle racism that the NRA peddles to sell guns to morons by making them fearful of random break-ins and attacks by evil minorities (I worked at a gun store for 3 years and I can tell you, most of the people buying for "self defense" had delusional fantasies of this kind of thing happening). One can do a pretty thorough breakdown of how Eastwood's film represent the worst thoughts and impulses of a culture of toxic masculinity and racism among older white men in America. I think it's fair criticism. Gran Torino is all about a crotchety white guy saving minorities from gangs. It's as if Clint watched King of the Hill and thought Cotton Hill was the hero of the show.
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Jan 2, 2020 03:24
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MinisterSinister posted:It's not explicit racism by any means, but there has always been a lot of implicit racism throughout Eastwood's career. Dirty Harry basically jumpstarted the not-so-subtley racist trend of late 70s and early 80s "tough on crime" action flicks where a bitter old white dude solves America's crime problems (which are always due to minorities, who commit random and abhorrent acts of violence not because of poverty or social motivations, but because they are just cruel by nature) by blasting away thugs with a gun. It is the same kind of subtle racism that the NRA peddles to sell guns to morons by making them fearful of random break-ins and attacks by evil minorities (I worked at a gun store for 3 years and I can tell you, most of the people buying for "self defense" had delusional fantasies of this kind of thing happening). One can do a pretty thorough breakdown of how Eastwood's film represent the worst thoughts and impulses of a culture of toxic masculinity and racism among older white men in America. i was gonna say that I thought Death Wish pre-dated Dirty Harry but it turns out that Dirty Harry came out in '71 and Death Wish in '74 so i was wrong. Although i did learn that apparently Charles Bronson is partially responsible for Clint Eastwood's fame, because Sergio Leone wanted to cast Bronson for A Fistful of Dollars after working with him for Once Upon a Time in the West but Bronson turned the role down, thus letting Clint Eastwood make a name for himself. In conclusion, Clint Eastwood is a poor man's Richard Bronson. Thank you.
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Jan 2, 2020 04:29
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Fistful of Dollars was made years before Once Upon a Time In The West.
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Jan 2, 2020 09:00
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Sleeveless posted:Well the 2010s are over, may this decade finally be the one where you free yourself from whatever bizarre compulsion makes you consume dozens of hours of popular media you actively dislike and then spend hundreds of hours bitching about it online. See y'all in another ten years, hopefully you'll actually be able to talk about more than two things then. ok boomer
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Jan 2, 2020 09:56
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Sleeveless posted:Well the 2010s are over, may this decade finally be the one where you free yourself from whatever bizarre compulsion makes you consume dozens of hours of popular media you actively dislike and then spend hundreds of hours bitching about it online. See y'all in another ten years, hopefully you'll actually be able to talk about more than two things then. Hey I stopped watching WWE last decade
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Jan 2, 2020 09:59
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You know, I'm surprised no one's mentioned that MIB movie that came out this year Wasn't that areal clunker too?
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Jan 2, 2020 11:03
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McCloud posted:You know, I'm surprised no one's mentioned that MIB movie that came out this year Wasn't that areal clunker too? It would require someone to actually watch it to find out.
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Jan 2, 2020 14:16
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Iron Crowned posted:It would require someone to actually watch it to find out. This is one of the difficulties of a worst movies list, and probably part of the reason the thread trends towards "Ideologically" bad vs. "Functionally" bad.
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Jan 2, 2020 16:33
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Sleeveless posted:Well the 2010s are over, may this decade finally be the one where you free yourself from whatever bizarre compulsion makes you consume dozens of hours of popular media you actively dislike and then spend hundreds of hours bitching about it online. See y'all in another ten years, hopefully you'll actually be able to talk about more than two things then. No matter how bad/racist a film like Loqueesha could be, it’s not doing as much concrete damage to cinema as a whole as Disney buying up Fox. Disney movies are fair game for polluting cinemas with endless franchise pictures and wannabes and choking the life out of daring independent films, but also because a lot of them suck rear end.
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Jan 2, 2020 18:02
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im hesitant to mention star wars: rise of skywalker because of recency bias, but since it's the only movie i've ever walked out on i think it wins then again i managed to steer clear of most of the stinkers everyone else is listing
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Jan 2, 2020 18:28
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While probably not being the actual worst movie, I think Rise of Skywalker deserves mention for having the greatest gap of what it needed to be vs. what it actually delivered. Like it could have just been an uninspired but competent movie like TFA and it would have been a serviceable capstone to 9 movies spread across decades and generations, but instead, like Game of Thrones' last season, was bad enough that it retroactively worsened everything that came before it. MIB:I was at least forgettable.
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Jan 2, 2020 18:55
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McCloud posted:You know, I'm surprised no one's mentioned that MIB movie that came out this year Wasn't that areal clunker too? It was merely a dull, nothing movie that wasted it's cast.
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Jan 2, 2020 19:01
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GrandpaPants posted:While probably not being the actual worst movie, I think Rise of Skywalker deserves mention for having the greatest gap of what it needed to be vs. what it actually delivered. Like it could have just been an uninspired but competent movie like TFA and it would have been a serviceable capstone to 9 movies spread across decades and generations, but instead, like Game of Thrones' last season, was bad enough that it retroactively worsened everything that came before it. This is entirely backwards. Seeing even a slick corporate operator like JJ Abrams break under the weight of the Disney machine makes Rise of Skywalker the most interesting of the sequel trilogy and is precisely what was needed to complete a nine-film series about the collapse of freedom under an evil empire.
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Jan 2, 2020 19:21
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DC Murderverse posted:i was gonna say that I thought Death Wish pre-dated Dirty Harry but it turns out that Dirty Harry came out in '71 and Death Wish in '74 so i was wrong. Although i did learn that apparently Charles Bronson is partially responsible for Clint Eastwood's fame, because Sergio Leone wanted to cast Bronson for A Fistful of Dollars after working with him for Once Upon a Time in the West but Bronson turned the role down, thus letting Clint Eastwood make a name for himself. Clint was already a big star thanks to Rawhide when he made A Fistful Of Dollars (1964); he took the role (and wangled a surprisingly large amount of money for it) because he wanted a break from being typecast as a do-gooder white hat. Sergio Leone later wanted to cast him as one of the random bad guys who get killed by Bronson in Once Upon A Time In The West (1968) as a joke, but Clint had had enough of slogging around Almeria in a poncho by then.
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Jan 2, 2020 19:44
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X-Ray Pecs posted:No matter how bad/racist a film like Loqueesha could be, it’s not doing as much concrete damage to cinema as a whole as Disney buying up Fox. Disney movies are fair game for polluting cinemas with endless franchise pictures and wannabes and choking the life out of daring independent films, but also because a lot of them suck rear end. There has never been more money going to independent film producers, never more movies receiving theatrical release and never more platforms to release film on. It's a cinematic golden age and all the giant poles that Disney are sticking in the tent do a lot to help that. The cinema that Disney is choking out is the mid level fare, or large non-Disney Studio productions, which I don't think is a good thing either, but honestly if you ask me if I'd rather have things like they are now, where I can see films that would've been stuck in an art house 10 years ago if they even got made, instead of The Expendables 8, I'd choose the former.
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Jan 2, 2020 19:48
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Payndz posted:It's not often that you see someone be so wrong about something that you wonder if it's a piece of performance art. Thats literally been quite a few posters whole posting careers, several in this very subforum!
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Jan 3, 2020 00:10
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MinisterSinister posted:It's not explicit racism by any means, but there has always been a lot of implicit racism throughout Eastwood's career. Dirty Harry basically jumpstarted the not-so-subtley racist trend of late 70s and early 80s "tough on crime" action flicks where a bitter old white dude solves America's crime problems (which are always due to minorities, who commit random and abhorrent acts of violence not because of poverty or social motivations, but because they are just cruel by nature) by blasting away thugs with a gun. If you're ragging on Eastwood for the racist implications of his work, I think it's relevant that literally all the villains of the Dirty Harry films are white.
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Jan 3, 2020 03:29
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yeah doesn't he do some target shooting with rookies and they all turn out to be the main baddies for the film? Apparently even Dirty Harry has to admit ACAB 
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Jan 3, 2020 15:17
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Aces High posted:yeah doesn't he do some target shooting with rookies and they all turn out to be the main baddies for the film? Apparently even Dirty Harry has to admit ACAB That’s the second movie, where the lesson is the American judicial system is imperfect, but dammit it’s what we have so you gotta abide by it. Almost Rambo: First Blood Part 2 levels of contradicting the first movie’s themes.
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Jan 3, 2020 15:21
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Patrick Spens posted:If you're ragging on Eastwood for the racist implications of his work, I think it's relevant that literally all the villains of the Dirty Harry films are white. Yeah I just want to mention movie-wise, Dirty Harry predates Death Wish, but Death Wish and the later Cannon Films sequels in particular were the absolute pinnacle of that bullshit. From those and Rambo you got all the other bullshit like The Exterminator, The Annihilators, etc. flicks where the message was basically "if we could just make it legal for Vietnam vets to murder minorities in our cities everything would be fine."
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Jan 3, 2020 15:37
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Dirty Harry 1 and Death Wish 1 are exactly like First Blood, in that the pop-culture versions of the characters have totally eclipsed what actually happens in the films. In Dirty Harry 1, we open with a badge honouring all the dead cops. But the film ends with Harry throwing the badge away, dishonouring all those who died for it. The moral of the film is that a ‘true’ cop would rather die than break the law, but Harry‘s hosed it all up. Like the message is straight-up that the only good cop is a dead cop. Likewise, Death Wish is a satire of liberalism. Kersey is a vigilante, yes, but he believes that he is protecting the good poors by literally beating the bad poors to death with a sack full of money. The big joke of the film is that he thinks killing is ok because he feels really bad about it afterwards.
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Jan 3, 2020 16:10
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The Exterminator owns, but the scene where he catches the gang members who shot his friend is loving wild. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crTn4ptJjiw
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Jan 3, 2020 16:11
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In the original Dirty Harry film, Harry constantly faces the logical consequences of his RENEGADE COP WHO PLAYS BY HIS OWN RULES actions. Also he breaks out a hilariously overpowered .458 Magnum elephant rifle and then never hits anything with it. It's Chekhov'
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Jan 3, 2020 17:34
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i recently watched this movie Street Law which is an interesting Italian pre-Death Wish oddity where the lead isn't avenging anyone's rape or murder, he's just avenging the fact that some bank robbers beat him up and humiliated him. Worth tracking down, not one of the worst movies of the 2010s or the 1970s for that matter
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Jan 3, 2020 17:36
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I haven't seen the original Dirty Harry, but I remember someone showing me this from the fourth movie and the conservative racist fantasy kept me off of seeking any of the previous ones out. https://youtu.be/RSAyz5c3JmM
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Jan 3, 2020 17:53
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:i recently watched this movie Street Law which is an interesting Italian pre-Death Wish oddity where the lead isn't avenging anyone's rape or murder, he's just avenging the fact that some bank robbers beat him up and humiliated him. Worth tracking down, not one of the worst movies of the 2010s or the 1970s for that matter In an Italian Death Wish movie the protag is more likely to be a rapist himself, frankly.
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Jan 3, 2020 17:54
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I like how studiously multiracial all of the street gangs in Death Wish are.
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Jan 3, 2020 17:56
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:In an Italian Death Wish movie the protag is more likely to be a rapist himself, frankly. especially when it stars a mustachioed Franco Nero, although i don't recall any of that in this one
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Jan 3, 2020 17:57
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Any James Franciscus in that joint?
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Jan 3, 2020 17:58
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Any James Franciscus in that joint? there's some Barbara Bach
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Jan 3, 2020 18:30
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I'll take it. Man, are there any books about that whole expat actor crew that spend the whole 60's and 70's in Italy?
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Jan 3, 2020 18:33
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I'll take it. Man, are there any books about that whole expat actor crew that spend the whole 60's and 70's in Italy? This was my favorite part of Once Upon A Time... In Hollywood
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Jan 3, 2020 18:39
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