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yeah everyone's art opinions are great to hear but not everyone's art opinions are equally good and free from derision, and if you're going to repeatedly insist asa is an Objectively Failed Protagonist you better be busting out a framework for artistically successful protagonism and walking me through it or you're just doing powerscaling-esque analysis (i.e. pseudo-rigorous nonsense) on a narrative e: what separates this from the assertions responding to it is that "well, we don't know what's in asa's head because a bunch of developments happened while she was off-screen and we haven't been let back in yet, and we can assume that's on purpose because it's what's happening on the page, where everything happens because it was placed there" is just a straightforward description of what's happening in the text, not an interpretive claim to be weighed. Valentin fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Apr 12, 2024 |
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Apr 12, 2024 22:20
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Valentin posted:e: what separates this from the assertions responding to it is that "well, we don't know what's in asa's head because a bunch of developments happened while she was off-screen yet and we haven't been let back in" is just a straightforward description of what's happening in the text, not an interpretive claim to be weighed. That is true. I meant your assertion that fujimoto was doing that to discomfit the reader purposefully. I personally didn't feel disoriented/uncomfortable/whatever not being in anyone's head the past few chapters. Like many posters have asserted, the comedic undercutting of most of the tension in these chapters has been a stark contrast to the end of Denji's section and if he was going for "uncomfortable" he's clearly failed. I'm enjoying the ride right now.
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Apr 12, 2024 22:23
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Asa rules, Denji rules, Power sucks Just kidding on the last one, she's great, but I wanted to be a stinker too
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Apr 12, 2024 22:32
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Das Boo posted:I will fight you all about whatever you think. Sky is blue? Not so fast! You need oxygen to survive? You need oxygen to LOSE. Opinion? More like OPINOFF, MOTHERFUCKER! See now THIS is the right attitude to have! symbolic posted:how can you dislike Guilly man. do you hate petting zoos too That's another problem I have with part 2: it took too long to introduce Guilly, she should have been there from the first page, screaming and cutting people's clothes off.
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Apr 12, 2024 22:44
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:God, I love the internet. I love hearing people's opinions about things. Just unironically adore people explaining in detail why they dislike something. This is not sarcasm I seriously find it so fun, but it's impossible to convey that in a way that feels sincere via text. I'm really enjoying Yoshida's role as well, if I'm reading him right. Him as someone who wants to be Denji's friend, but who keeps making everything worse due to his own misreads and Denji... being Denji is both funny and kind of sad in the best way. (The omakes from the latest volume where he sees Denji eating food off the ground and goes "Oh, he likes that? ...Okay, fine, I can do that." feels very on-brand viewed through that lens). He's also the person we've seen caring most about Asa's well-being, while continually dumping on her and trying to kill her. Yoshida's a guy trying to be the cool pro with a heart, but he's terrible at it, and that's great. (Meanwhile, I have no idea about Fumiko's deal. Like, there's possibilities, mostly under the broad header of "she is a terrible person", but it feels like it hasn't all been brought together yet.) I complain because I love. Chainsaw Man part 1, Goodbye Eri, and Look Back are some of my top manga of all time. And when Part 2 is on, like with the recent Nayuta chapters, it's still able to hit those emotional highs. But a lot of the time, it's just frustrating, because I know Fujimoto can do much better.
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Apr 12, 2024 23:08
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part 1 is for boys and part 2 is for girls
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Apr 12, 2024 23:56
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Snooze Cruise posted:part 1 is for boys and part 2 is for girls similarly, denji is a dog and asa is a cat
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Apr 13, 2024 00:06
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Shinjobi posted:Asa rules, Denji rules, Power sucks You motherfucker I'm gonna-- Shinjobi posted:Just kidding on the last one, she's great, but I wanted to be a stinker too d'oh you got me, you scamp!
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Apr 13, 2024 00:41
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Snooze Cruise posted:part 1 is for boys and part 2 is for girls my power as an enby grows
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Apr 13, 2024 01:02
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chiasaur11 posted:(Meanwhile, I have no idea about Fumiko's deal. Like, there's possibilities, mostly under the broad header of "she is a terrible person", but it feels like it hasn't all been brought together yet.) Imo she kind of just brings home the sad reality of Denji’s ill-advised “gonna be a super hero and “accidentally” reveal my identity” goal; she’s a huge fan of Chainsaw Man but has absolutely no issue degrading Denji the person, abandoning her job to effectively force him to do the Bad Thing, and then just shrugging when he gets packed away indefinitely partly because of her inaction and partly because his hand was very much forced due to a horrible tragedy and just going “better get me a piece of that kid as a souvenir”. It’s a lesson that Denji should’ve sadly already learned with Makima, that he might learn now that it’s not an conspiracy involving the four horsemen of the apocalypse to break his will to live; anyone who genuinely cares about you, Denji, won’t give a poo poo about you being Chainsaw Man, and conversely whatever else fan girls tell you, they aren’t actually super hype to date a dimwitted high school boy and probably wouldn’t be hype to date you if they knew your true identity.
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Apr 13, 2024 01:19
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tbh the last stretch of chapters has been Fine to me but I keep trying not to compare because I read part 1 in like 2 days. I've generally enjoyed it but I've definitely just flipped thru more chapters fairly quick just to wait for the next than I thought would happen considering how pt 1 and early pt 2 gripped me. it's building toward stuff and I'm def enjoying it but I'm not gripped! I want to be gripped!
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Apr 13, 2024 01:42
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symbolic posted:my power as an enby grows Only we can truly enjoy chainsaw man
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Apr 13, 2024 02:05
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chiasaur11 posted:(Meanwhile, I have no idea about Fumiko's deal. Like, there's possibilities, mostly under the broad header of "she is a terrible person", but it feels like it hasn't all been brought together yet.) Meta textual explanation: Fumiko is needs to exist as a character because if Yoshida was still Denji's bodyguard Barem wouldn't have been able to burn his house down. For the sake of the plot a competent character needed to be replaced by a way more incompetent one. This is actually briefly touched upon in story by Barem at the amusement park when he brings up how he's surprised he was able to get close to Denji because Public Safety is usually better at keeping him away, which implies that pre-Fumiko part of Yoshida's job making sure Barem didn't bother Denji and he was way better at it than she was. Explanation from a character development stand point (Denji): Fumiko is every thing Denji thinks, and has previously said, he wants. Except she sucks and he ends up not actually liking her that much, because it turns out what he thought he wanted was incredibly shallow and unsatisfying. Explanation from a character development standpoint (Yoshida): I'm not sure where Fujimoto is going with this, but Yoshida being replaced mid-movie theater date by a woman who has a female version of his name (Hirofumi, Fumiko) and then when asked "Is this what it's like to be normal?" numbly replying "Yeah it is" certainly feels like SOMETHING.
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Apr 13, 2024 02:29
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:
The weird thing on that level is that Fumiko and Denji get along great. We get the scenes with them at the park and the school, or even their date, and Denji's happier than he is for most of that arc. They have the same easy chemistry Denji and Power had, where they encourage each other's stupidity and delight in it. And it gets weirder with her reverse-Asa aspects, since she has a whole scene talking about caring about Denji the person, contrasting against Barem the Chainsaw Man fan and Asa ditching Denji as soon as she fell for Chainsaw Man, but then she goes back to toxic Chainsaw Man fan with the Public Safety scenes. It's not complaining for this bit, to be clear. There's plenty of room for Fujimoto to bring it all together. It's more looking at the situation and going "So... wonder how this is going to work", because I feel like there's a good chance Fujimoto's going to have at least one more scene that'll leave things much clearer.
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Apr 13, 2024 03:50
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i wonder if fumiko faced any consequences for bailing on her job the second it became difficult? i'm guessing not, because public safety preferred to have an excuse to dismember denji anyway.
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Apr 13, 2024 05:02
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i don't get the sense public safety worries too much about disciplining any of their regular agents all that much; regular turnover alongside the mortality rate probably accounts for most issues, and it's not like dismissing or disciplining people who prove to be very good at surviving devil situations is very worthwhile. thanks to fumiko bouncing and reporting back immediately they probably had an easy time tracking denji's body to wherever nayuta's controllee took it (side note: haven't seen anyone discuss the fact that nayuta clearly failed to save denji given the hospital but very curious about how that will ramify. poor girl probably doesn't feel Awesome About It if fami has her up to date, although that gap of time is also an easy span to fit a twist of some kind. i might've guessed she had her puppet somehow take denji's heart for safekeeping, but i suppose him talking to pochita in the hospital already forestalled that) Valentin fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Apr 13, 2024 |
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Apr 13, 2024 05:20
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Nayuta is 100% dead and it's best not to worry about her anymore
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Apr 13, 2024 05:26
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assuming nayuta survived, i don't think she's in good condition now. most devils can't regenerate. nayuta doesn't have access to the methods makima used.
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Apr 13, 2024 05:26
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all the pets are actually staging their own rescue with nayuta off screen
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Apr 13, 2024 05:27
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Snooze Cruise posted:all the pets are actually staging their own rescue with nayuta off screen 
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Apr 13, 2024 05:34
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:assuming nayuta survived, i don't think she's in good condition now. most devils can't regenerate. nayuta doesn't have access to the methods makima used. Devils can absolutely regenerate. Bat Devil kidnapped Meowy to make Power bring him humans to feed on so he could regenerate his missing arm. Angel didn't regenerate because they ran into the primal devil of darkness more than because they never could heal.
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Apr 13, 2024 05:34
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Angel was also friendly and didn't like hurting humans, I don't know if they wanted to drink blood.
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Apr 13, 2024 05:50
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MonsterEnvy posted:Angel was also friendly and didn't like hurting humans, I don't know if they wanted to drink blood. Seemed to have no problem munching on zombie heads.
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Apr 13, 2024 06:09
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MonsterEnvy posted:Angel was also friendly and didn't like hurting humans, I don't know if they wanted to drink blood. Angel's also very, very lazy. Drinking blood and having arms means more work. As for Nayuta, she's probably alive since Asa didn't get her memories back, but her status beyond that is unknown. She's probably not in any condition to mount a rescue at the moment, even if she's on her own.
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Apr 13, 2024 06:10
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ImpAtom posted:Seemed to have no problem munching on zombie heads. Zombies don't count anymore.
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Apr 13, 2024 06:33
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if nayuta's alive her situation is going to be either incredibly bleak or incredibly funny.
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Apr 13, 2024 06:38
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chiasaur11 posted:Angel's also very, very lazy. Drinking blood and having arms means more work. That doesn't make any sense though. If a devil bit your arm off the arm wouldn't grow back if the devil died, so why would the memories a devil erased through targeted brain damage (I'm assuming that's how it works) come back after a devil died? The only thing that's been established as being undone by a devils death is contracts, which coincidentally enough explains why Denji hasn't died from failing to find Power, that contract was undone by her death which happened a few seconds after she made it.
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Apr 13, 2024 07:38
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Finding myself fervently confused as to why Yoshida, a literal child, was left in charge of reining a dumbshit teenager like Denji. Like, we all laugh at him because it’s funny, but also it’s kinda bullshit that a high schooler was left in charge of him probably just because he had tenure and a good kill record. Yoshida: the Daigo Dojima of the Fujimoto-verse.
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Apr 13, 2024 17:05
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he did rein in denji, though. everything else went to poo poo, but denji was and is under control.
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Apr 13, 2024 17:12
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Snooze Cruise posted:part 1 is for boys and part 2 is for girls ah, I see this means part 3 will be for non-binary people
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Apr 13, 2024 23:31
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that is what makes fujimoto a genius
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Apr 13, 2024 23:37
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Happy Landfill posted:We know this is true too busy staring at the star that drives kids insane
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Apr 14, 2024 00:05
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Last Celebration posted:Finding myself fervently confused as to why Yoshida, a literal child, was left in charge of reining a dumbshit teenager like Denji. Like, we all laugh at him because it’s funny, but also it’s kinda bullshit that a high schooler was left in charge of him probably just because he had tenure and a good kill record. Everyone else who was vaguely competent quit or died in part 1. What's more, it seems like Yoshida had his own agenda. Or rather, he was advocating "Look, I can keep this guy in line, he's not going to be trouble", while Public Safety higher ups wanted Denji out of the picture entirely, meaning Yoshida was working a project everyone else wanted to fail. No surprise he didn't get much support.
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Apr 14, 2024 01:05
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i think i agree with that at the same time-- i can't ignore kishibe's absence and yoshida's lack of institutional power, considering they were most of the Public Safety people left alive (that we met at least) but are not power players in the present. it seems like someone important enough moved into the opening makima left and established whatever we have now in act 2. that might be kishibe, but i feel very certain it is not yoshida it's guilly stuker fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Apr 14, 2024 |
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Apr 14, 2024 01:44
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i don't think there is a new mastermind. if there is a single person in charge, that person has no loving clue of what they are doing. "ah yes, a cult that worships devils. from all of the institutional knowledge of how devils work i have available, i have concluded that they are nothing to be worried about. thus, we shall let them do their thing until we swoop in and effortlessly defeat them for publicity! surely nothing can go wrong." i think the devil hunters are now a relatively conventional dysfunctional bureaucracy.
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Apr 14, 2024 01:51
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i don't think there is a new mastermind. if there is a single person in charge, that person has no loving clue of what they are doing. "ah yes, a cult that worships devils. from all of the institutional knowledge of how devils work i have available, i have concluded that they are nothing to be worried about. thus, we shall let them do their thing until we swoop in and effortlessly defeat them for publicity! surely nothing can go wrong." i can buy a nobody being at the wheel, but at this point we know Public Safety has enough direction to carefully dismember denji for some purpose (at least keeping him inert), while also employing roughly half of the known fiends to defend that operation. also eyepatch anti-wife guy suggests they're still organizing contracts when he did his poof thing (rip in piss) the obvious pick would be fami, but i dunno if i'd like that resolution after how fun she's been this arc e: \/ Yes. stuker fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Apr 14, 2024 |
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Apr 14, 2024 04:33
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Do you guys ever think about Falling? I think about her a lot.
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Apr 14, 2024 04:34
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somehow Kobeni got promoted up
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Apr 14, 2024 08:40
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i don't think there is a new mastermind. if there is a single person in charge, that person has no loving clue of what they are doing. "ah yes, a cult that worships devils. from all of the institutional knowledge of how devils work i have available, i have concluded that they are nothing to be worried about. thus, we shall let them do their thing until we swoop in and effortlessly defeat them for publicity! surely nothing can go wrong." Probably. Remember, Makima was reprimanded for being too empathetic. The higher ups from her day, or people close enough, are still around. It's the experienced hunters in the middle (like Makima) who have some idea how to translate abstract directions to practical work that actually protects the public who are all gone. All the cruel bureaucracy, none of the competence. Space Cadet Omoly posted:The only thing that's been established as being undone by a devils death is contracts, which coincidentally enough explains why Denji hasn't died from failing to find Power, that contract was undone by her death which happened a few seconds after she made it. Nah. The Eternity arc established that at least some of the effects of Devil powers vanish too, with Himeno talking about how Power killing the Devil couldn't have trapped them. It's part of why everyone Makima mind controlled is free now. Asa's memories seemed locked away by Nayuta. If they're not unlocked, Nayuta is probably still around. (Also, Power and Denji might have made a contract, but there wasn't a timetable. If Denji eventually finds the blood devil, all to the good.)
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Apr 14, 2024 09:59
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https://twitter.com/D_Kumii/status/1780356144512290959 Look Back LOOKS so good
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Apr 16, 2024 23:18
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