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NotJustANumber99 posted:I only earn 80k a year what about the bloody rich eh? Are we sure that guy didn’t confuse 80k with 18k?
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hemale in pain posted:To be honest I'm pretty sure the bystander on top of him was trying to murder him If a Terri getting froggy starts stabbing people up on London Bridge and my fight or flight kicks in and I end up fighting them, I’m almost certainly murdering him rather than allowing any restraint. Loads of absolute melts in this thread arm chairing how terrible the police are when in that video it looks like a guy in a balaclava with multiple knives has tried mimicking the machete attack and is getting back up, he’s forgone his right not to get shot. Live by the sword die by the sword. As for those saying “looks like the police aren’t even needed!”. Yea tell that to the dead and wounded from today and 03/06/17
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Nov 29, 2019 17:02
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crispix posted:I remember about 10 years ago some bloke tried to rob a cashier in a petrol station near here with a knife. There was an off duty PSNI officer in the place, getting a few groceries I suppose, and he just shot the bloke dead. quote:AN off-duty policeman shouted a warning before shooting a criminal who had just robbed a petrol station, an inquest was told on Monday. The guy threatened to stab some poor shop assistant, probably mentally scarring them for the rest of their life. He is a scum bag. Hopefully the left will start winning some ground soon and people won’t be put in positions where they feel they need to be scumbags.
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Nov 29, 2019 17:11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiWIOKKuyGE
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Nov 29, 2019 17:12
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Lightningproof posted:Weird to just copy/paste Daily Mail comment sections posts into this thread but okay champ. Gotta get discussion flowing some how. At the moment it’s pure speculation based on some snap chat videos.
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Nov 29, 2019 17:13
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crispix posted:I'm not debating the point that he was in fact an enormous scumbag - he was notorious in part of town for being so. It's just the point at which it is acceptable to shoot a person dead that I'm interested in, however enormous a scumbag they may be. When they are a threat. Which comes back to the old hitting moped criminals with cars argument I got rinsed for in here last time. If the cop hadn’t of engaged the criminal would have gotten away and no one would of got hurt, so by confronting him in an attempt to arrest him the cop created the threat in a way. But capitulating to criminals and allowing them to commit crime so they don’t get hurt seems like a fairly terrible way to uphold the law.
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Nov 29, 2019 17:16
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OwlFancier posted:If your cops have only two settings which is ignore people or murder them, perhaps your concept of justice needs looking into. How else do you deal with someone with a knife who isn’t dropping it? It’s firearms sadly.
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Nov 29, 2019 17:22
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Darth Walrus posted:lol, you brought up your previous 'police should splatter moped thieves across their car bonnets' argument like it was something to be proud of. What? Hardly. I got rinsed for it in here and it taught me a lot and gave me a point of view that I didn’t find any where else online at all. Stop reading and placing emotion into words that isn’t there you weirdo.
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Nov 29, 2019 17:25
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InflateableFerret posted:a taser? rubber bullets? sound cannons and water jets? Ah yes or how about some other magical martial art like Akido training and chakra magic. Give me a knife and give you all of those things and you try and arrest me. The risk to your life is significant. Rubber bullets and tasers very very often do not work. Or are you of the opinions we should be asking police officers to openly and willingly sacrifice their lives to arrest people that are trying to kill them?
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Nov 29, 2019 17:28
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OwlFancier posted:The general public literally fought the guy on the bridge to the ground with weight of numbers before the cops showed up to wave their guns around. If you're going to have police maybe you could, I dunno, give them training and equipment so they can subdue a guy with a knife in some way other than murdering them? How many injured members of the public are there? How did that work out in the last attack?
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Nov 29, 2019 17:29
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unwantedplatypus posted:As an american I can tell you that the proliferation of guns and free reign for police to "defend themselves" has led to nothing but good things for my country No ones arguing for free reign and guns to be the norm in every defence situation.
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Nov 29, 2019 17:32
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OwlFancier posted:Yes??? This is supposed to by why we have to fellate the bastards at every opportunity. "thank u brave cops for showing up and gunning down a guy on the pavement that the general public had already fought to protect themselves from" doesn't really have the same ring to it. How many people have been wounded? Considering it’s just been announced that the dude had an explosive suicide vest on this isn’t the hot take you think it is.
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Nov 29, 2019 17:34
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OwlFancier posted:You literally are arguing that if a cop feels their life is threatened we need to let them murder people. This provably leads to the police just murdering everyone because they believe their lives are always in danger. Where have I ever said “if a cop feels their life is threatened”?! Simply feeling threatened is not an excuse which is why it’s an absolute disgrace the cop that tasered the race relations Bristol guy in the face kept her job. I’ve said when someone has a knife.
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Nov 29, 2019 17:36
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NZAmoeba posted:Yes? Police frequently us a shield as their symbol/badge. A shield is meant to take the blow to protect the person behind. If you have a shield that refuses to be put in danger, you have a pretty useless shield. I’d rather protect my human shield than the person I’m using the shield to protect myself from. The shield is doing a job and not offensive, the offender is putting that shield in that position. If one of them is going to get hurt I would rather it not be the shield and want to give the shield all the equipment and training in the world to deescalate so no one gets hurt, but if that’s not possible then it’s on the offender. And I can assure you guys, arm me with a marker pen and put any 3 of you with me in a ring, your getting marked up significantly on exposed skin before you can subdue me.
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Nov 29, 2019 17:40
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Random Integer posted:Its possible to train your police force to shoot to disable and has the added benefit that the cops are significantly less likely to put a bullet into an innocent bystander. From everything I’ve ever read in regards to this, it simply does not work sadly and is pure fantasy bought about by Hollywood movies depreciation of what shooting someone actually looks like.
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Nov 29, 2019 17:42
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Gonzo McFee posted:Do you only ever turn up in threads because you want to wank to cops killing people? I read the thread religiously, it’s where I get my news and know who to follow on Twitter for good takes (or see bad takes torn apart), I only post when it’s a subject I know I’m going to be schooled on and disagreed with so I can learn or at least get other opinions.
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Nov 29, 2019 17:44
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Superterranean posted:oh so now it's the guy's fault he got shot That’s why I’m here posting and not some right wing hell hole like OcUK Forums debate section or some poo poo.
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Nov 29, 2019 17:46
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Julio Cruz posted:so if I'm a Met copper with an MP5 and a bulletproof vest on I can blow someone away the minute they pull out a flick knife? If a suspect has a knife, is ignoring commands to drop it and is being told they are going to get shot, and they then advance on someone else, be it the police or a member of the public, then they should be shot. They got fair warning and they are still insisting on wanting to be able to stab someone. You don’t get to stab people in this country.
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Nov 29, 2019 17:50
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TheRat posted:Also daily reminder that willie_dee is fash and Bape Culture is a troll account. Every where else in life I’m called a liberal lefty terrorist sympathising Corbyn cultist, here is the only place I can come to get challenged on use of force in policing. It is insane to me that you would jump to calling me fash but then, the left has an ongoing habit of eating itself allowing the right to unify despite some differences of opinions.
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Nov 29, 2019 17:54
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Julio Cruz posted:What happens if they don't speak English? Or are deaf? Or a big lorry went past at just that moment? What happens if the taser doesn’t work and the poor knife man stabs 3 babies to death you didn’t see whilst gently trying to deescalate as some poor woman’s just pushed her triplets onto the scene oblivious as to what is going on. We can all play the what if game.
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Nov 29, 2019 17:57
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Bape Culture posted:Feel free to post absolute nonsense from your mothers spare room while stuffing crisps into your fat gaping maw you utter loving failure. Lol I’m getting far more torn into than you are, no need to get like this. I don’t think anyone’s posting here in bad spirits.
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Nov 29, 2019 17:58
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Nosfereefer posted:Sure you are champ, sure you are, 3 days ago I had someone decry me for being a socialist for criticising landlords on twitter and pointing out that leaving your tenants home made chutney didn’t make up for the extreme exploitation of the renting class by the land lord class. I’m fairly sure some posters in here have had my back on Twitter and vice versa, maybe they don’t realise it’s me because I only post in here when I want to be told why I’m wrong.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:01
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TTerrible posted:I genuinely don't understand what you're arguing. How dare you fash. The police were just out to murder. The public had everything under control. I’m sure one of them was calmly discussing with the attacker that the vest was fake and he was just about to deescalate the situation and everyone could of got up and walked away with no more injuries.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:05
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RockyB posted:I mean don't get me wrong, the police may very well have been right here. Don't gently caress about with suicide vests if there are other potential victims in the area. I don’t think for a second there is any danger of anyone who posts here liking the police enough to ignore the constant and abject failures that they will be given the benefit of the doubt. I just think in today’s incident it’s been pretty cut and dry. More clearly needs to be done to stop people in society getting to the despair they feel they need to do this kind of terrorist thing, be it mental health services or social safety nets to prevent poverty because I imagine terrorism comes about via those two things.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:11
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crispix posted:I would like to hear this story. Good point.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:14
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Like, if members of the public have been grappling with the guy extensively before you arrive and you see this on approach it's reasonable to assume he'd have blow himself up already if he'd planned to do so. You want it on your head to make that assumption when it turns out he was being restrained from reaching the detonator or it was on a timer of some kind and then it goes off whilst everyone’s restraining him? I wouldn’t want to make that call, nor would I.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:28
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TheRat posted:If you can't find a better reason (there are many), how about not turning him into a martyr? I’d of much much rather he not be killed, the killing of anyone is a sad thing. I just don’t think there’s a way around not killing someone in a bomb vest who has already tried stabbing people.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:31
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CyberPingu posted:If the Public jump in before Police respond then how does him having a detonator change if Police have guns Because the only way the guarantee he doesn’t get free enough to detonate is a shot to the head and an immediate evacuation of the area to wait for the bomb squad to come and diffuse.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:34
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CyberPingu posted:Did you even read my post. The public have gone hands on and are fighting with him, if he’s got a detonator he could be reaching for it. The police having guns can use said guns to shoot him in the head preventing any risk to the public who are fighting with him. Or am I completely not understanding your post?
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Nov 29, 2019 18:37
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CyberPingu posted:So what you are saying is the Police should fire at someones head while he is being restrained by pedestrians. good loving God you are dumb No they do what they did, clear the public and shoot him before he can continue.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:38
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goddamnedtwisto posted:UK police were first equipped with firearms while Faraday was still pissing about with bits of copper and vinegar, so that seems unlikely. Pointing out that non lethal options are not reliable makes you fash according to this thread, just a heads up. Some posters even think that police officers should sacrifice their lives so criminals don’t get hurt when caught committing crimes.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:40
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Drone_Fragger posted:Hey to break up terrorist chat, and to shed some light on the antisemitism issue in labour being abused by bad actors for political gain, the tories today dedicated a statue to Nancy Astor, a women who was not only an appeaser to the nazis in the run up to world war 2, but is also a huge antisemite to the point that she’s on record as an MP approving of Hitler and The nazi party because they’d solve the worlds two greatest problems: Jews and socialism. Truely a women worthy of having the government dedicate a statue to her, rather than her bones being chucked in a flaming dumpster. Just seen this on twitter via Ash Sarkar. Why was she even being statued up on the first place?! https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1200336430028996609?s=21 Needs tearing down just like all of Colstons stuff in Bristol.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:42
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OwlFancier posted:What do you think the causes of crime are? Poverty and mental health mostly I think.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:43
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Szmitten posted:I don't think suggesting that the police shooting a man on video that tried to take a hostage after getting dogpiled by members of the public for brandishing knives and a suicide vest after jackknifing a lorry across a bridge in a situation that's still unfolding is exactly the same as a cop entering the wrong apartment and killing the homeowner, and suggesting they're not the same doesn't really make that person a cop loving bootlicker. Thanks for this, at least I know I’m not completely insane for thinking so if at least one other person who posts here can tell the difference between the two.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:45
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OwlFancier posted:And do you think justice should be rehabilitative or punitive? Rehabilitation is far far more important that punishment. CyberPingu posted:Holy poo poo are you writing the Tory Manifesto. Not that I’ve read it but I would of thought the Tory manifesto would say it’s because they are work shy scum and need punishment as motivation to work, arbecht mein frei style. Rather than poverty because of the gross inequalities in society and lack of social services that need to be addressed to end it.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:51
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OwlFancier posted:So if you think that crime is a product of being failed by society, and you don't think we should be punishing people routinely, it seems quite weird to add "unless they hurt a cop in which case gently caress em" to that. Own welfare maybe, throw in a knife and I’m not asking police officers to risk their own lives, for as much as we hate to admit it, police officers are humans in society too.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:56
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OwlFancier posted:Police officers are not people who have been victimized by society, they are, currently, people who victimize others in society. They are afforded power and prestige, they have an obligation to everyone else, not us to them. So you are arguing that a police officer should be willing to die to restrain an offender without hurting them who is using lethal force to not be arrested whilst committing a crime? Astoundingly hot take there.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:59
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unwantedplatypus posted:So should all cops be given guns and stab-proof vets then, to ensure they can protect themselves from someone with a knife? Stab proof vests yes, all given guns? gently caress no. Luckily knives are not that prolific in day to day policing so are current armed response officers are sufficient (or not, the police need far far more funding like all are public services, although I’d probably go police last if I was giving out more funding)
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Nov 29, 2019 19:01
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Braggart posted:Making it instant death to injure a cop just means that people will be afraid to disobey the police in any regard, even if the police are acting illegally. Which is of course what the cops want. You are conflating stab with injure. There is a world of grey. Punching a cop in the face is not the same as attempting to stab one.
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Nov 29, 2019 19:04
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OwlFancier posted:Yes? They should have all the equipment and training and numbers we can give them to facilitate that, but yes, ultimately they have a duty to put themselves at risk to protect people who have been failed by society, both criminals and their victims. I see your point and I want to thank you for having the discussion rather than just calling me fash. We do not ask Firemen to die, they put their lives at risk but within reason. I do not think it is reasonable to ask a police officer to risk getting stabbed to protect a criminal. The criminal should be given ample opportunity to surrender but if they insist on putting the officer in a kill or be killed situation then the criminals the one making that decision and they are sacrificing their own life.
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Nov 29, 2019 19:08
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