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So we've hit the second page and no one is posting any pretty pictures, boo. At first I thought the secret to speed was always going to be minimizing the number of emitters used and multiplying.  But the more I play around with Shunt H, the more it seems that high speed solutions aren't going to revolve around minimizing interactions, but moving Hydrogen to where you need it. 
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Nov 6, 2019 22:15
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I'll make some when I get home. Parallelism like that only works on the first few simple molecules imo. For fast cycle counts aim to minimize emitter and molecule movement and maximize H manipulation, as you said.
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Nov 6, 2019 22:33
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Oh poo poo I didn't realize shunting hydrogen can move it more than one hex.
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Nov 7, 2019 00:15
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oh yes inject this game right into me right now please
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Nov 7, 2019 03:57
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Me, after shaving off 1 cycle to go from 60 to 59 in ethanol: I am a genius The next day, after seeing somebody else get a 48: I am a moron
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Nov 7, 2019 04:58
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Dr. Stab posted:Me, after shaving off 1 cycle to go from 60 to 59 in ethanol: I am a genius
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Nov 7, 2019 05:03
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Probably have everyone from Schenzen but here we are anyway https://steamcommunity.com/id/Ratzap/ I tend to do a puzzle once or twice, fiddle a bit, look at the scores, think 'meh, w/e' and move to the next.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:47
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Do all angles need to be identical to the target in this one or is it spacechem rules where you can make crooked molecules?
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Nov 7, 2019 19:21
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Identical angles, I think. I did the whole game in one sitting yesterday (the penultimate molecule was the hardest for me) but it didn't occur to me to experiment with the angles.
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Nov 7, 2019 19:37
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Morholt posted:Do all angles need to be identical to the target in this one or is it spacechem rules where you can make crooked molecules? the angles and chirality must be identical. edit:2d chirality Ruzihm fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Nov 7, 2019 |
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Nov 7, 2019 19:37
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I'm annoyed this doesn't work.
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Nov 7, 2019 19:49
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Tenebrais posted:I'm annoyed this doesn't work. yep, chirality matters v it's a 2d game with 2d chirality. the correct product and the incorrect product are enantiomorphs in a plane. Ruzihm fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Nov 7, 2019 |
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Nov 7, 2019 19:55
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That's not "chirality", it's the same molecule!
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Nov 7, 2019 20:03
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No I think that's exactly what chirality is. It's mirrored. Can't mirror inputs, can't mirror outputs.
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Nov 7, 2019 20:11
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It's mostly a matter of not making sense when the molecule is presented in 2D. In real life, a three-dimensional molecule when mirrored has different chirality since the orientation is changing in respect to whatever is at the front or back, but a molecule structured exactly like that in the screenshot is the same as the output, as you can just flip it over.
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Nov 7, 2019 20:18
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No that molecule does not have any stereocenters even irl, it's not chiral. You can get its mirror image by flipping it like a pancake.
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Nov 7, 2019 20:25
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Morholt posted:No that molecule does not have any stereocenters even irl, it's not chiral. You can get its mirror image by flipping it like a pancake. Ceci n'est pas une molécule. it's a 2d shape with chirality
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Nov 7, 2019 20:31
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Yeah zach posted about this a bit, he said he wanted folks to be able to play optimally without thinking about 3d rotation. It is a shame when you build a system that constructs the mirrored one by accident.
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Nov 7, 2019 20:46
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Would be neat if there were an unlockable/opt-in ruleset mode where they could be rotated like that. 
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Nov 7, 2019 20:55
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I kinda like it how it is - I'm at least glad you can't flip precursors. Asymmetry adds something here. It'd be fine if they let you mirror outputs but I really hope that don't add mirrored inputs. That'd solve your issue without blowing up the complexity and widening the solution space. It'd allow for solutions where you make one molecule with one chirality and one with the other, concurrently.
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Nov 7, 2019 21:02
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Oh and there was a patch today:quote:Changed bond-breaking priority so that rotating your solution will less frequently change its behavior. This will probably break any solutions you have that relied on ambiguous bonding or unbonding resolving in a particular way. That second one is pretty significant, should allow for some lower cycle counts.
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Nov 7, 2019 21:13
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Oh and there was a patch today: yooooo that's huge. thanks for posting
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Nov 7, 2019 21:33
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Looks like it came with a leaderboard reset, which makes sense - rerun your solutions folks! It definitely messed up my nitrous oxide.
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Nov 7, 2019 21:47
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Yeah you can output a lot of the early molecules in a single cycle now. And the leaderboards have been wiped.
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Nov 7, 2019 21:47
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That's a huge change, I wonder how many of my solutions are irreparably broken (and how many are now way faster)
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Nov 7, 2019 22:18
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Are leaderboard histograms broken after today's update? I can still see top and tenth percentile and friends in the leaderboard, but my histograms are all blank 
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Nov 8, 2019 00:07
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gently caress do I wish I had some fromaldehyde. loving kids.
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Nov 8, 2019 04:19
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Rahu posted:Are leaderboard histograms broken after today's update? I can still see top and tenth percentile and friends in the leaderboard, but my histograms are all blank There was a reset, maybe there are too few entries for it to draw? I think he reset them a second time even, or maybe just is planning on it. The bond ordering now goes counter-clockwise from the direction of input for unbonding, I think he's going to make the same (or opposite direction) change for bonding and reset again.
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Nov 8, 2019 05:01
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Dr. Stab posted:Me, after shaving off 1 cycle to go from 60 to 59 in ethanol: I am a genius They changed the rules and I found 44 right away so this is lost forever now.
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Nov 8, 2019 06:24
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Undocumented keys: If you want to rerun all your solutions at once go to the settings screen and hit CTRL-SHIFT-R. Hit F10 to rotate your solutions.
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Nov 8, 2019 06:53
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This is a good game imo
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Nov 8, 2019 13:18
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This game feels easier than opus magnum imo, but that might be because Im going through and beating things rather than worrying about optimizing
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Nov 8, 2019 23:03
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Control Volume posted:This game feels easier than opus magnum imo, but that might be because Im going through and beating things rather than worrying about optimizing It's the first Zachtronics game I've actually finished so it might actually just be easier
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Nov 8, 2019 23:21
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Okay it really picks up in row 5, holy poo poo
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Nov 9, 2019 05:29
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I have successfully synthesised every molecule up to and including mescaline, and have only now realised there are instructions to move the emitters
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Nov 9, 2019 12:42
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Arrhythmia posted:It's the first Zachtronics game I've actually finished so it might actually just be easier I think it's the first one where the tools and rules you're working with never change. From the second challenge onwards you're working with the same precursors and the same set of instructions to effectively make increasingly complicated versions of the same kind of output. Even TIS-100 had you learning to output in different data formats. It doesn't make this game easier exactly but it is relatively straightforward. Along with the minimalistic art, audio and story, it feels less developed than the other games. Maybe it was developed alongside the visual novel, which obviously needed all of those things but no puzzles.
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Nov 9, 2019 18:22
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Yeah, it is a small side project. https://twitter.com/zachtronics/status/1191852670937513985?s=19 https://twitter.com/zachtronics/status/1191510715456081920?s=19
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Nov 9, 2019 18:36
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Zomborgon posted:Opening up the precursor catalog to *whatever you want* after the first two is simply evil. "Hydrogen Peroxide": Yep. "Ethanol": Mm hmm. "Nitrogen Oxide": I suddenly feel very tired. I'm a little bit behind on the news owing to needing to build a new computer, but here's me on Steam, if anyone is interested: https://steamcommunity.com/id/MrBlarney/
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Nov 10, 2019 06:49
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I'm coming up on the end of the game and I still have zero idea what the "modules" count means. 
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Nov 10, 2019 07:50
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:I'm coming up on the end of the game and I still have zero idea what the "modules" count means. Number of spawners + number of emitters used
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Nov 10, 2019 07:55
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