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 GPUs are basically unavailable unless you live on a stock drop discord. The situation is not expected to improve any time soon. Welcome to the PC Building and Parts Picking Megathread! This is where we talk about computers, computer parts, and building parts into computers (FYI). Thanks to Crackbone, ShaneB Factory Factory, and Peak Debt for their stewardship for past years of the thread. There is are a lot of parts to choose from and even more bad advice out there for people looking to get a new computer or upgrade their existing ones. This thread is a handbook for you, so that you can get a good system and have a good idea of why it’s a good system. The most common reason people come to this thread is to build a new PC for gaming, but you may have also come here for a home desktop, a workstation for professional use, a home theater PC, a storage server, or just some advice on a new computer for your parents. Read this first! Read the OPs! They should cover a lot of the questions you may have. This post: The template. Next post: FAQs about PC Building. If you have a general question about PC Building its probably answered here. If not, ask it. The post after that: Useful links for PC building / benchmarks. IF YOU READ NOTHING ELSE, READ THIS: When you post, tell us the following:
Use PC Part Picker. It lets you piece together a system and copy-and-paste your parts list in BBcode markup. Use it. It will also prevent you from making some (but not all) bonehead moves, like getting a case too small for your motherboard. Please let us know if you happen to live near a Microcenter as well, they often have the best deals among PC retailers but it's all in-store only. -- How much you should expect to spend A basic web and office PC can be had for between $300 and $450, depending on just how basic you need it to be. A basic gaming system can be had for between $600 and $800. A high-end gaming system, you can expect to pay between $1000 and $1500 before we start calling your choices a smidge excessive. On a workstation, if you’re making money with it, we’ll recommend whatever it takes to get the job done quickly, up to your budget. Our recommendation may vary greatly depending on your particular use, e.g. a Solidworks workstation will have very different priorities than a virtualization testbed. If you have never put together a system before, don't worry. It’s easier to put a PC together than the average piece of Ikea furniture. Enough parts come with manuals to tell you what goes where, and you can accomplish everything with very few tools. Usually, you just need a Phillips-head screwdriver and your hands. Hardware Comparison Tools Want to compare your new X to your old Y? AnandTech's Bench database will compare CPUs, GPUs, and SSDs head to head on various real-world and synthetic benchmarks. There are also tools for laptops, phone and tablet benchmarks, Macs, cases, and CPU coolers, though these databases are much less complete. Fantastic Foreskin fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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COMMON QUESTIONS AND GUIDELINES - READ THESE Updated November 11, 2019 1. Should I upgrade or buy a new system? 2. Are there any good prebuilt systems? 3. How can I future-proof my system? 4. ATX? Micro-TX? Mini-ITX? What are these things? 5. How many cores/threads does my CPU need?? 6. Intel or AMD CPU? 7. Does/will my [component] bottleneck my [component]? 8. Help me understand processor names and motherboard chipsets! 9. Should I overclock? Do I need to overclock? 10. AMD or Nvidia graphics card? What brand? 11. What do Ti, Super, XT, DC2, TF, SC+, FTW, and all that poo poo mean? 12. Should I run two graphics cards in Crossfire or SLI? 13. Can I get away with onboard graphics? 14. How much RAM do I need? How fast should it be? 15. What should I look for in a motherboard? 16. Should I buy a bunch of fans? How should I arrange them? 17. How much wattage does my PSU need to have? I found this one for $20! 18. Do I need a sound card? 19. Do I need aftermarket cooling for my CPU? 20. M.2 and NVMe, all about SSDs 21. Do hard disks have any place in a modern computer? 22. What’s the cheapest way to get Windows, and what version should I get? 24. Should I get an optical drive? 25. Can I re-use my old parts to keep costs down? 26. I am tempted to DIY, but I'm really not sure I can build this system myself. Can I pay someone to do it for me? 27. But Logical Increments/CPU Boss/Passmark/this other building guide says. 28. I need a monitor, speaker, headset, etc. 1. Should I wait, upgrade, or buy a new system? There are two rules of thumb:
Upgrading or buying a new system depends on how old your system is. Anything pre Ryzen or Skylake will likely be better off getting replaced entirely. The change to DDR4 RAM means newer components aren't at all compatible, and high end processors for old motherboards cost well in excess of their worth. AMD has committed to the AM4 socket through 2020; you might need to update your bios but newer processors are otherwise drop-in compatible. On Intel's side, if you have a Skylake (6XXX) or Kaby Lake (7XXX) processor, you'll need a new motherboard, 8 and 9 series chips aren't compatible with 1XX and 2XX motherboards. If getting a 9 series chip you really should get a Z390 motherboard for updated io and guaranteed compatibility. Not sure what you have? Speccy will give you all the fancy part numbers in one place. Copy the info or post a screenshot. There are also some computer parts with natural lifespans. Hard drives start to fail at increased rates at around five years old, and PSU should be replaced if out of warranty. Inexpensive fans will start wearing out, too, if they haven’t already. All told, if all you could carry over is the case and the DVD drive, and the case isn’t even that good, it might be better to sell or donate the old system as a complete setup. 2. Are there any good prebuilt systems? First off: Most people who say they don’t have time to build are wrong. It generally only takes an hour or two to get a pile of parts into the same condition as a prebuilt system fresh out of the box. If you'll only be using office apps and web browsing, you're probably getting a laptop; the laptop thread is the other stickied one. If you really want a desktop your best bet is to find something used, anything Sandy Lake (2XXX) or newer will be fine for home office use, just put an SSD in it. A word of caution, Rzyen processors that don't end in G and Intel processors than end in F don't have integrated graphics, so if you wind up with one of those for home office use you'll still need a GPU for it to be usable at all, though even the cheapest available will suffice. For gaming PCs, not really. Microcenter's house brand (PowerSpec) offers decent value for money, though you only get a 1 year warranty vs. the often substantially longer ones on individual parts. In almost all other cases you're paying hundreds of dollars to save 1-2 hours of effort. 3. How can I future-proof my system? You can’t, don’t try. Recent shake-ups in the CPU space have tossed out a decades worth of conventional wisdom, and Nvidia has presented the possibility of ray tracing being a major component of GPUs going forward, but it's future is still unknown. Certain trends regarding things such as VRAM (4gb isn't cutting it, 6gb may be an issue sooner rather than later) and CPU thread counts (some games have performance issues with only 6 threads to work with), but future requirements and hardware capabilities aren't predictable. The thread will help you avoid known pitfalls but no one can guarantee performance levels years from now. 4. ATX? Micro-TX? Mini-ITX? What are these things? From largest to smallest, ATX, microATX (mATX) and mini-ITX (mITX) are motherboard sizes, which determines both the size of case you can fit them in and the number of things you can attach to them. The mounting holes are in the same places, so you can always use a smaller board in a larger case, but not vis-versa. Mini-ITX, or ITX is the smallest being a ~7" (17cm) square. They only have 1 PCIe slot and 2 DIMM slots, which is enough for many builds does limit options. Mini ITX cases are hard to build in and often require special small form factor power supplies (SFX PSUs) and low profile CPU coolers. ITX boards and specialized components tend to carry a price premium relative to full size parts but if you want as small as possible a PC with all the horsepower there's no alternative. microATX is a ~9.6" (244mm) square, permitting up to 4 PCIe slots and 4 DIMM slots (though with all modern consumer chips only having dual channel memory, this only permits more total memory than ITX, not a performance boost). Presently, only entry-level and mid-range boards are being manufactured in the mATX form factor. For most builds this isn't an issue, but if you're looking for a high core count system, or to OC an Intel system as much as possible you'll need to go full ATX. ATX is the biggest at 12"x9.6" (305x244mm), allowing even more expansion slots than mATX, though most computers only need 1 or 2. Currently all enthusiast class motherboards are ATX, so if you want the highest quality components you're stuck with them. For most systems this won't translate into notably improved performance but may bring piece of mind or offer features not available in other form factors. 5. How many cores/threads does my CPU need? At this point you should at least be getting a 6 core with hyperthreading / SMT (6C/12T). Intel's 8C/8T CPU, the 9700k doesn't seem to be suffering any issues yet either, but 6C/6T CPUs are causing hitching in some newer games, a trend that's expected to continue (all AMD CPUs have SMT so there's no direct comparison there). 6. Intel or AMD CPU? For almost all systems an AMD Ryzen 5 3600 is the correct choice currently, offering excellent price/performance and excellent performance overall. For budget or very high end systems there are other choices, but expect to get a 3600 until the 4600 comes out or Intel makes serious changes to their product stack / gets 10nm sorted out. 7. Does/will my [component] bottleneck my [component]? Bottlenecks are the result of your lowest performing component holding back the others – your computer can only put out as many frames as it can process. Generally people refer to bottlenecks as when said component is causing others to be severely underutilized, but you will always be limited by a single component. In many systems, this will be the monitor as a 60hz monitor can only ever display 60fps. If you have a >60hz monitor (achieving a steady 60fps is fairly trivial for a modern system), the next most likely limiting factor is your GPU. This is generally seen as a good thing as it means you’re using it to its fullest capacity. If you want higher performance, GPU load can be lessened by turning down graphics settings or resolution. The least likely limitation is your CPU, as it either means your settings are below your GPU’s capabilities, or you’re playing a strategy game. CPU load is game dependent and there’s not a lot you can do about it, fortunately you have to go out of your way to create a CPU bottleneck in most cases. 8. Help me understand processor names and motherboard chipsets! AMD’s processors have a somewhat inelegant naming scheme. There are Zen1 processors, which are numbered 1xxx, Zen+ which are 2xxx, and Zen2 which are 3xxx. Intel’s modern systems are Coffee Lake Refresh (9xxx) and Coffee Lake (8xxx), in practice they just get referred to by their part number. AMD’s only consumer chipset currently is AM4, which they’ve promised to support through 2020 and is backwards and forwards compatible with all Ryzen chips so far (barring a few technicalities not pertinent here). So far there have been three sets of AM4 boards, the 3, 4 and 5 series, coming which each Zen generation. The x50 boards offer everything most people could need, with the x70 boards offering a few more features. The x20 boards should be ignored. Out of the box Zen 2 is only guaranteed to be supported by X570 boards, the yet-to-be-launched B550 boards, MSI MAX B450 boards, and any board with a “Ryzen 3000 ready” sticker on its box, if you live near a computer part retailer. Additionally, all the MSI B450 boards offer CPU-less bios flashing, allowing for them to be updated to support Zen2 with only a flash drive. Any B450/X470 boards manufactured after Zen2 launched should support them out of the box, but you can’t be sure what you’re getting when you order online. By now I have to imagine most of the old stock has been moved, but I can’t promise anything. If you’re buying Intel you should get a Z390 board. 9. Should I overclock? Do I need to overclock? Ryzen processors perform near their maximum clocks out of the box, and by enabling Precision Boost Overdrive in the bios will automatically overclock themselves as far as they can go, though this may require an aftermarket cooler. Gains are limited and for most cases can be disregared. If you’re buying a new Intel system you’re doing it for absolute maximum CPU performance and you’ll need to overclock to achieve that. If you have an older Intel system you should absolutely overclock, they’re still capable CPU’s unless you need maximum frames or run into issues from a lack of cores. If you have an older AMD system you should buy a new computer. 10. AMD or Nvidia graphics card? What brand? First off, if you aren’t gaming and just need one or two monitors, integrated graphics work great with no muss or fuss. A graphics card is not a required piece of equipment, however Ryzen CPUs that don’t end in G and Intel CPUs that end in F don’t have integrated graphics. Presently, AMD is uncontested in budget cards (~$100), Nvidia has a stranglehold on the midrange ($200-300), and both are competitive in the enthusiast market ($300-500). If you have $1000 to spare on a GPU, Nvidia is uncontested at the top. New cards are expected from both in the nearish future, so this all may change, but its too early to tell when or how. We have a GPU megathread for discussion, but remember that buying advice goes here. 11. What do Ti, Super, XT, DC2, TF, SC+, FTW, and all that poo poo mean? Ti and Super (for Nvidia) and XT (for AMD) designate next level cards, and can be considered to be the next card up in the line-up, though below the card with the actual next higher number. Every other initialism or label on a card besides those and its number are just marketing names applied by the manufactures, indicating the cooler or factory overclock. In general, its always better to buy the next card up than spend money on a factory OC’d card or fancy cooler. The only caveat is the blower style cards (single fan, rear exhaust) aren’t up to cooling the current crop of GPUs, and are hot and loud beyond that, and should be avoided in almost all circumstances. 12. Should I run two graphics cards in Crossfire or SLI? No. Software and hardware support is vanishing. For gaming purposes, its safe to call multi-GPU set ups dead presently. 13. Can I get away with onboard graphics? Do you want to do some 3D gaming? If you’re ok with low/medium quality graphics or sub 1080p resoultions, the AMD Ryzen APUs (2200G/2400G/3200G/3400G) have decent integrated graphics that will do just fine for your purposes. You can't do that with an Intel CPU though. The performance of the integrated Intel GPU is simply too weak to deliver anything but very choppy graphics that make for an unenjoyable experience. The next generation of Intel iGPUs is supposed to be a substantial improvement, but its not here yet. If you don't plan on doing any gaming at all, the onboard graphics of any modern system will be just fine, though again, non-G AMD and -F Intel processors have no onboard graphics and will require a (any) graphics card to function. 14. How much RAM do I need? How fast should it be? 16gb is fine for any gaming system. Professional workloads will often want more, and home office computers can probably get by with 8gb. You should get RAM in the 3000-3600 MT/s range, especially with a Ryzen 2 processor. 3600 RAM offers small but measurable improvements over 3000/3200 RAM. Older Ryzens had issues running high speed RAM and should be fine with 3000 RAM. Intel systems are less sensitive to RAM speed but still benefit from RAM in the 3000 to 3600 range. 15. What should I look for in a motherboard? Besides obvious things like having the right socket for your processor, supporting overclocking or not (as well as overbuilding to support higher overclocks), and having a good selection of ports and plugs, there are only a few critical spots of differentiation in motherboards. In general, every motherboard will have a PCI Express expansion slot for a graphics card, bunch of USB ports, a bunch of SATA ports for hard drives and SSDs, an M.2 slot or two, decent-to-pretty-good built-in sound, and wired Ethernet networking. Beyond that, there are a few common options:
16. Should I buy a bunch of fans? How should I arrange them? Most cases have a good-enough setup of fans for a non-overclocked build. It may only be one or two, but a few big fans running at low RPM in a well-designed case are far better than jamming a dozen small fans into a mesh box for the sake of “airflow.” Too many fans can be counterproductive. If you want to mess with your cas’s fans, I direct you to the second post of the Overclocking thread where Fear Factory already written a ton of words (with pictures!). 17. How much wattage does my PSU need to have? I found this one for $20! DO NOT BUY CHEAP-rear end POWER SUPPLIES. Not only are you risking every component in the system, but you are risking starting an electrical fire. Power supplies are one of the most critical components, yet the temptation of many builders is to ignore quality and blindly buy whatever gives out a lot of Watts. Power supplies have roughly doubled in price due to the current trade war. Cheap PSUs are now pricey and good ones are very pricey. Its recommended to get an 80+ Gold (or better) PSU with a 7 to 10 year warranty. While not an absolute sign of quality, long warranties are indicative of the manufacturers confidence in their product. Currently this includes the Seasonic Focus and Focus Plus Gold lines, Corsair TMx, RMx 2018 and RMx 2019 lines, and EVGA Supernova G1/2/3 lines. For most people a 550w or 650w PSU will be fine. Its best to leave some overhead for transient spikes and to maximize your PSUs efficiency curve, but parts are very efficient compared to what they used to be and only getting moreso. PCPartPicker provides an estimated wattage for your build. Also: NEVER RE-USE OLD MODULAR POWER CABLES FROM A DIFFERENT PSU BRAND. They do not have unique keys to prevent using a cable with the wrong wiring. THIS CAN DESTROY YOUR PC. Klyith has an excellent post on PSU efficiency curves and wattage requirements. 18. Do I need a sound card? No. 19. Do I need aftermarket cooling for my CPU? AMD CPUs ship with coolers that are up to the task, though you can get an aftermarket cooler if its too loud for you or you want to try to push a larger overclock. -K series Intel chips don’t ship with a cooler, so you’ll need to get one. Large tower coolers offer cooling comparable to AIOs, AIO watercoolers offer good cooling in a smaller / more flexible size, and dedicated watercooling set ups should be taken to the watercooling thread. 20. M.2 and NVMe, all about SSDs SSDs come in two form factors, 2.5” and M.2 and two communications protocols, SATA and NVMe. All 2.5” SSDs are SATA, and all NVMe SSDs are M.2, though M.2 can be either NVMe or SATA (in the consumer space, anyways. Enterprise drives can be different but are beyond the scope of this). SATA is the same interface you’ve been using for hard disks for years, capable of up to 6Gb/s performance, which SSDs are capable of saturating. NVMe (Non Volatile Memory Express) uses PCIe lanes for communication and is, on paper much faster than SATA. In practice consumer workloads gain almost zero benefit as 6Gb/s is plenty and NVMe’s benefits are most realized when dealing with very large files. That said, they are around price parity, so there’s no reason not to get an NVMe drive. As noted above, M.2 can be NVMe or SATA. Depending on your motherboard, some slots may support only one or the other, and sometimes SATA ports are disable when a SATA drive is attached. The details will be in your motherboard’s manual, and PCPartPicker will show a warning. 21. Do hard disks have any place in a modern computer? If you need an abundance of storage on the cheap, multi-Terabyte HDDs can be had for half the cost of an SSD or less, however the performance gap between them is, without hyperbole, the biggest advance in home computer performance in a decade (or more). If you’re not backing up complete collections of perfectly legitimate Blu-Rays, you’re better served getting as much SSD storage as you can afford and deleting a few games if necessary. 22. What’s the cheapest way to get Windows? Windows 10 can be activated with any Windows 7, 8 or 10 key. A helpful goon has been selling Windows 7 pro keys in SA-Mart for years now without any complaints. Windows 10 can also be used unactivated at the cost of being unable to set your desktop. If this doesn’t sound like your cup of tea, an OEM version or an education discount is likely your best bet. 23. Should I get an optical drive? No. You can install an OS with a USB memory stick and you’re going to download everything else you ever install. If you do believe you need a DVD drive because "why not" you should just get a USB-attached drive. DVDs are slower than USB 2.0 so there’s no performance loss vs. an internal drive. 24. Can I re-use my old parts to keep costs down? Some parts yes, but usually it works out better to just get new parts and either sell the old ones, recycle them, or donate the old machine as a whole to a kid or to Goodwill. Most sales will be parted out, but if you want to donate the system or re-use it as a server or something, weigh the value of cannibalizing it vs. no longer having a complete system. Graphics cards are easiest. If your card isn’t *that* old and you want to wait for a new launch or a good deal, go ahead and carry it over. PCI Express is totally backwards and forwards compatible, so there won’t be any funny problems trying to slot it in. Any hard drive still in service is likely pretty old. Back it up ASAP and don’t be surprised when it dies. SSDs wear out eventually too, but it takes a good bit of doing. Smaller drives and newer, cheaper drives are more prone to wear. Back them up and keep an eye on the SMART readings. Back up new drives too, redundancy is the only form of data safety. For power supplies, the rule of thumb for a well-used power supply is to replace it after five years or once its warranty has expired, whichever is longer. Power supply components can degrade with use and can lower the ability of the unit to deliver power, and potentially even endanger your new parts. It would be tragic for your brand new computer to go just because you re-use a previously fine PSU, so if its out of warranty, dump it. One benefit to the high end PSUs recommended here is that their useful like is likely longer than all your other components. DDR3 from pre-Skylake / Ryzen systems will need replaced as it won’t be compatible. If you’re already on a DDR4 platform go ahead, RAM doesn’t really go bad. Cases (and monitors) can last a long time. If you bought really good ones, sure, keep using them! But with the advances in technology, you might find that today’s decently-priced cases and monitors work like the ultra-high-end stuff from when you last bought. If your stuff was just okay then, you might find that new kit is significantly better and worth an upgrade. Your DVD drive has probably seen zero wear-and-tear.  But let's be honest, it'll likely remain unused in the new system too.CPU coolers and fans depend; technology has definitely improved for coolers, and fans do wear out. Your existing cooler can likely be reused, though you’ll need a mounting kit from the manufacturer for AM4 boards, and new thermal paste. Fans tend to become noisier with age so you might want to replace them if the noise becomes annoying. 25. I am tempted to DIY, but I'm really not sure I can build this system myself. Can I pay someone to do it for me? PC stores like Micro Center or a local shop will build a PC from your own parts for a modest fee. Go in and ask. You can probably order the parts through them, as well, but beware sales pressure. If you have a geeky friend, they might be willing, too (but remember, you are asking them to do work for you, be respectful about it). Don’t ask your company IT guy unless you want to contribute to a drinking problem. Just do it yourself though, the trickiest part is screwing in the motherboard, everything else is just a matter of putting the thing in the slot. 26. But Logical Increments/CPU Boss/Passmark/this other building guide says Every piece of computer part advice you see on the internet not from this thread is terrible and should be disregarded. While its true there’s a new component at every $10 price point there are definitely optimal choices to make. The figures from CPU Boss / Passmark and the like are more-or-less meaningless. We have a host of nerds here who stay up to date on component reviews and are all too happy to help, don’t turn to Reddit or worse. 27. I need a monitor, speaker, headset, etc. We deal more with the computer side of things rather than the peripheral side. Let me link you to a few other threads where you can ask for recommendations: Peripherals Monitor/Display Megathread Should I buy a $100 mouse? (not a megathread,  )Keyboard Megathread Home Networking Megathread Hardware Short Questions Let’s Talk Headphones (IYG) PC Speakers (IYG) Common Specialty System Focus Threads HTPC Thread (IYG) Overclocking Megathread (sorry I don’t keep the guides more updated, but the first two posts are great) Consumer NAS/Storage Megathread Fantastic Foreskin fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Mar 17, 2020 |
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Nov 12, 2019 01:51
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Useful links: r/buildapcsales A terrific subreddit, compiles PC part sales across the internet so you can find the best deal available on any given day. Active moderation keeps out the duds and the comments are very good a letting you know if a deal is good or not. Your first stop when going to buy parts. USA focused, but links to other subreddits for other regions. GamersNexus puts out the highest quality part reviews around / assorted other hardware miscellany. Your first stop for hardware performance information. If you're working with the Adobe suite / DaVinci Resolve / other pro graphics/rendering software Puget Systems publishes detailed benchmarks for them specifically. They'll sell you a system too, if you've got the dosh. You want Linux benchmarks? Phoronix wants to give you Linux benchmarks. PCPartPicker is linked above, but its useful enough to link again. You're probably buying a computer to game on, and r/gamedeals is a good way to find cheap games, as is isthereanydeal. SA-Mart is a good place look for used hardware, especially laptops. Other review sites (GamersNexus is the best, but its always good to get multiple opinions. This list is by no means exhaustive nor an admonishment of any site not linked): https://www.anandtech.com/ https://www.guru3d.com https://www.techpowerup.com/ Fantastic Foreskin fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Nov 23, 2019 |
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Nov 12, 2019 01:54
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Going add a useful links section (GN, Pudget, Anand/Guru3D/etc, BAPCsales, Phoronix, others?), and a bit about antivirus (just use Windows Defender). If someone wants to write a short bit about the different NAND types and how to tell what you're buying I'd love to add it in. I know the basics but I'm not 100% I'd do it proper justice.
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Nov 12, 2019 16:12
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WaveLength posted:Is there a clear go-to motherboard for the ryzen 3600? Assume that I won't be able to flash a B450 Out of the box Zen 2 is only guaranteed to be supported by X570 boards, the yet-to-be-launched B550 boards, MSI MAX B450 boards, and any board with a “Ryzen 3000 ready” sticker on its box, if you live near a computer part retailer. Additionally, all the MSI B450 boards offer CPU-less bios flashing, allowing for them to be updated to support Zen2 with only a flash drive. Any B450/X470 boards manufactured after Zen2 launched should support them out of the box, but you can’t be sure what you’re getting when you order online. By now I have to imagine most of the old stock has been moved, but I can’t promise anything.
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Nov 12, 2019 16:27
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Nude Hoxha Cameo posted:First and foremost, thanks for keeping the thread going - it’s an amazingly valuable resource! Nah, the problem with the old thread was that they were out of date and getting people to start in the wrong place, and no one really wanted to be responsible for keeping them up (I figure, given that no one else wanted to make a new OP). A 3600,16gb of ram, and one of the PSUs mentioned in the OP are going to go in nearly every system, but everything else is build/budget dependent, and the best choice part wise can change daily, depending on prices. Considering we've been operating for over a year with the recs in the OP being bad, I figured we'd do just as well just going off the template while not having to periodically explain that the OP is out of date. If anyone cares to make and keep current such a list I'm happy to link in the OP / let them poach the rest of it for a new thread, though I'm going to be making some additions / revisions later this week.
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Nov 13, 2019 04:13
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Hi Thread, You've got the most powerful gaming CPU paired with a decidedly mid-range GPU. Use case is gaming, yes? What resolution/refresh rate is your monitor?
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Nov 13, 2019 20:05
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Cool cool. The 9900k is grossly overkill for what you're looking to do, you won't be able to tap a fraction of it's potential. Grab a 3600, use the stock cooler, and pocket the difference; any modern processor will sail past the 60fps limit imposed by your monitors and should have no problem with multitasking like that. Also be sure to grab a Windows key from SA Mart rather than spending full retail. Do you want to game on both monitors at the same? The 1660 super is a good choice for 1920x1080, but 3840x1080 would want something beefier.
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Nov 13, 2019 21:14
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They probably worth more as a collectable. You can get a 970 for $100 or less, or 1070 level performance in a new card for around $200. I'd just flip them.
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Nov 13, 2019 22:11
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It was a dumb idea from the start and the irrational exuberance died out.
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Nov 14, 2019 03:10
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$100 sounds like a good friend price. I'd caution her on the hard drive though, 7 years is pretty old so I wouldn't save anything important to it / expect to replace it sooner rather than later.
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Nov 14, 2019 18:12
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I don't get what you mean by not taking the desktop apart when you're going to have to gut it to put all the new stuff in.
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Nov 15, 2019 18:41
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I don't know what your cable routing situation is like, but putting in the motherboard is like 90% of building a PC.
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Nov 15, 2019 19:13
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DDR3 can be had pretty cheap now. If you post a buying thread in SA-Mart I'd bet you can get another 8gb for 
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Nov 18, 2019 18:20
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You ain't gonna kill your motherboard running an in-spec processor. Maybe if you crank the OC but if you're using a stock cooler you're not going to be able to pull that off either. Also VRM quality and chipset are independent, you can get B450 boards with very robust power delivery.
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Nov 18, 2019 18:29
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5 and 7 are just segments like Intel. The 2700X has two more cores, the cores in the 3600 are ~15% stronger. The 3600 performs better today unless you have a use for more cores (i.e. not gaming), but some people are afraid that 6/12 CPUs will go obsolete quickly since the new consoles are 8 core. I can't say I share this fear, but it's there. Cyrano4747: No one can say how long a processor will last. If the above comes to pass than the 2700X will have a longer life span, if not it'll last roughly as long as the 2600, and how long either of those last depends on what happens in the CPU industry down the line. At a readily available $120 for the 2600 you get a fine 60fps processor at i3 pricing.
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Nov 18, 2019 20:21
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Primarily it doesn't use any cables. They usually fit NVMe drives too, which cost the same as SATA drives, but this is less important than the cables part, unless you're doing video editing or the like.
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Nov 18, 2019 20:48
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MikeC posted:Buildzoid is an overclocker that assumes you be doing something crazy with your gear. +1 to this. Buildzoid's channel is Actually Hardcore Overclocking and he means it. He's not doing consumer reviews, he's doing super enthusiast analyses. And even then he says basically any motherboard on the market is fine for a 3600 or 3700.
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Nov 19, 2019 15:31
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Bank posted:Trying to figure out what case exactly I should get. I'm thinking about doing Raid 5 with parity (3 x 12TB disks for 24TB). I'm thinking about the NZXT H510i but under 3.5 it says "2+1" does that mean it comes with 2 primary and 1 "flex" space allowing me to use either a 3.5 or a 2.5? While utterly ignorant about RAID, rule #1 of (important) data storage is multiple copies in multiple locations. And autosyncing services aren't redundancy as they're happy to sync corrupted version of a file. So yes, if it matters that much, it 100% should be backed up off-site
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Nov 19, 2019 18:24
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BIG HEADLINE posted:It's not an article, but: Dunno where you're getting that power figure from, all the benchmarks I can find show it having a similar to slightly lower power consumption. (Also a somewhat smaller performance delta in most games.)
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Nov 19, 2019 23:58
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Notably, the 2070 and 2060S have a tdp of 175w (and the 2060S is slightly above the 5700 on the chart on the linked page), so the 60w figure really stood out.
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Nov 20, 2019 00:58
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CPU and resolution are independent, it's monitor hz that matters. But yeah. I'd go with the non-X version but the 3600 is plenty good for most every system.
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Nov 20, 2019 20:39
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Cross posted from the VR thread: Make sure the PSU is up to snuff / has the appropriate connectors.
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Nov 21, 2019 21:32
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Schadenboner posted:With the release of Threadripper and the Ryzen 9s (and maybe a new line of space heaters from Intel? Basically never. It offers 1-3% more performance and uses 10+% more power to get it.
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Nov 22, 2019 03:02
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) the price of the 3800X has dropped to around 355 versus the 3700X’s 330.
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Techpoweredup did a piece on them but I can only find an amp link right now. Yes, they are binning them (they're the same chip after all). Per SL a top quintile 3800X gets 150mhz more than a top quintile 3700X, with only a 6% difference between a top 3800X and a bottom 3700X. In their testing they got the 1-3% performance difference I mentioned earlier.
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Nov 22, 2019 03:58
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Mayman10 posted:All the specs I've seen put the 1660s at about the same base clock as the 590 but for like $40-50 more and with 2 gigs less of vram You can't compare clock to clock on anything but chips on literally the same architecture, and even then there are other factors at play. The 1660S handily outperforms the 590 across the board, and at 2/3rds the power consumption.
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Nov 22, 2019 04:30
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Hey MikeC, I've linked your build guide post in the OP. Can you do me a favor and put in the full PCPP BBcode output on the example builds? As someone who primarily posts on mobile its a lot easier when people put the full thing instead of just a link, and I'd rather set the example in the OP. Thanks for putting this together!
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Nov 23, 2019 16:33
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Schadenboner posted:Welp, I found a new channel to binge... He says, here and in other videos, that its really not that important for the 3600 or 3700, they don't have the power draw to need beefy vrms. He recommends the B450 Gaming Plus for mATX if you have a 3600 or 3700. It limits your options to drop in a 3900/3950 down the line, but honestly by the time consumer workloads need those kinds of core counts I doubt any of these processors will be relevant.
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Nov 25, 2019 05:41
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Ciprian Maricon posted:I see a lot of posts with the Ryzen 3 and the Tomahawk but no one talking about having to flash Bios. It can be picky. I tried with a 16gb USB 2.0 drive and it didn't work, my friend brought out his ancient 0.5gb drive and it worked fine.
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Nov 26, 2019 02:38
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Tarranon posted:Hello Dear Thread; The MAX has an updated BIOS for Zen2, but the MAX part refers to having a big enough BIOS chip to fit all the supported CPUs, so I can't think of why it would have an issue.
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Nov 26, 2019 05:59
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taqueso posted:What's the price/performance sweet spot for a low power tiny pc with integrated graphics only? How low power / what are you doing with the graphics? Like, SBC territory?
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Nov 27, 2019 22:02
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Snazzy Frocks posted:is the ryzen 7 2700x effectively same as the 3700x if you ignore the wattage? No, a 3700 is inherently ~15% more powerful. If you're aiming at gaming the 3600 is just as good. The 5700xt or 2070S are the usual recommendations for 1440p144. They won't hit 144 ultra in AAA titles but the next step up is several hundred dollars more for a very non-proportional increase in power. The 2070S is ~10% more powerful than the 5700xt but costs 25% more, it also has raytracing if you're interested / have a compatible game / are willing to take the performance hit.
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Nov 28, 2019 00:15
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Vasler posted:I play a mixture of games ranging from pixel indie games to AAA so the ability to get at least 60 fps would be great. A non-overclockable 4C/4T is going to quickly become the weakest point in your system, and upgrading the processor in place is throwing good money after bad with the prices old top SKU processors carry from people wanting to do exactly that. And yeah, AMD is clowning on Intel, partly from a processor design standpoint and party from the fact that Intel's been having manufacturing issues for years. Until Intel can get 10nm sorted they're basically going to have to cut pricing in half on the 10XXXX chips, which they've already done on their high end parts.
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Nov 28, 2019 16:15
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Check TBW vs whatever it was rated for. As always, regardless of situation, back up any important data.
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Nov 29, 2019 04:18
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a cat posted:So I built something like this: Nvidia and Linux don't have the greatest history, what driver are you using?
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Nov 29, 2019 05:01
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27" 1080p is fine.
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Nov 29, 2019 15:06
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Splicer posted:Planning a gaming PC, absolute highest priority is reliability. No overclocking etc. It's replacing one from 2013 which is still going strong with nothing but an an ssd and RAM upgrade. Sorry for the lack of a partspicker but that's kind of my issue, I haven't done this in six years so I'm out of the loop. If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution / refresh rate? This is really the most important part to part picking.
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Nov 29, 2019 16:30
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Tallgeese posted:If I have a choice between this: The ti performs notably better in a select few scenarios and otherwise an imperceptible couple of percent better. It's unambiguously a stronger card, but not enough so to be worth a price differential at all.
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Nov 29, 2019 19:59
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Zedd posted:What (Nvidia) Card would best match the AMD Ryzen 5 3600X? I think I figured out all the others parts. 1440p or 1080p?
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Nov 30, 2019 01:07
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Zedd posted:1440 for mostly "slower" games. probs putting ingame resolution to 1080p when using my 4K TV as screen. 2070S for 1440p >60fps, 2060S for being the only step down that doesn't cost $500. On the AMD front the 5700 is basically a 2060S but cheaper, and the 5700XT is 7-10% slower than the 2070S but much cheaper. If you're OK with upscaling from 1080p the 1660S is a solid choice, but it'll have trouble doing higher resolutions natively. Fantastic Foreskin fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Nov 30, 2019 |
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Nov 30, 2019 04:24
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