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Hi all, I've posted about this in one of the chat threads, and am finally getting around to creating a thread. (Note: I'm Canadian, so all dollars and distances are NOT 'Murcan) Back in August, I decided I wanted a truck as my daily again. My last one was a 2009 Silverado which was good to me, but was overkill most of the time (I'm single, with two dogs). I gave it to my dad, and bought a 2005 Outback wagon from the owner of the Subaru shop that I get the big stuff on my 2011 WRX Hatchback done at. The Outback was fine, but after a 2,000km (one-way) trip back home this past summer towing a small trailer, I realized that I really wanted a (small) truck again. While out there, I found and bought a 2005 Tacoma TRD Sport.  ~265k km, 4x4, V6, 6 speed manual transmission, OME 3" lift, ARB bumper with Warn M8000 winch. It definitely needed brakes, but it was really clean inside and out, so a deal was done (stupidly, I didn't have a purchase inspection done.  ALWAYS HAVE A PURCHASE INSPECTION DONE ). I had zero interest in the 'rooftop' tent, so the seller kept that for $$$ off the asking price.I had found out through my research that there were significant frame rust issues with these trucks. The seller had various Toyotas at his place, told me he'd taken this one on trade, and said that the frame issue/recall had been dealt with. That's all I'll say here, because I'm considering civil action. I bought the truck, my dad and I redid the front brakes, and I hitched up the trailer and headed back 'home'. The Brake and ABS lights were on, but I figured I'd address this later.   I determined that the brake issue was due to faulty rear ABS sensors, so I ordered a set of 4 'no-name' sensors, replaced them, and the lights went away. I now needed to get an out-of-province inspection done, so off to a shop I went. One of the techs came out after a while to explain that the truck had failed, because of rust issues on the frame. Apparently the rust hole was so big on one side that they could put a screwdriver in and make the inner wall flex. It also would have failed for having wheel spacers to fit the ridiculous rimzzz and tires, no front mud flaps, one of the front struts was leaking and maybe some other minor bullshit. Once the truck was off the lift, I got underneath the truck in the parking lot to survey the damage. Driver's side:  Passenger side:  I felt physically ill. Like someone had grabbed me by the balls, and twisted. Hard. Next stop was the local Toyota dealership. They put the truck on a lift, confirmed that the frame was hosed, and that it would have been replaced under the class action suit. Had that not ended 3 weeks before I bought the truck. They called Toyota Canada themselves, who confirmed it wouldn't be covered. Another kick to the balls. Off I went to a local bodyshop. He said he'd be able to cut out the rusty crap and weld new stuff in. Perfect. Arrangements were made for me to drop off the truck. After watching frame replacement videos on Youtube, I made a list of stuff I 'might as well' replace given that the whole goddamn truck was going to have to come apart. Clutch, clutch sleeve kit (because the clutch will 'chirp' at idle), starter, water pump, belt, cab, motor, and trans mounts, clutch slave cylinder, input and crankshaft seals. I also waited for a sale, and got new rims and tires for the truck. The tires that were on it were Mickey Thompson Baja MTZs, and weren't mountain/snowflake rated. I hate switching and storing tires, and wanted Cragar D-window style rims. I couldn't find any that would fit this generation of Tacoma, and realizing that winter steelies were cheap and still had the same 'look', I figured why not. I went with Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs, because I had them on my Silverado and they're awesome year-round tires for where I am. I also did some math, and found out that this rim and tire combo would be 13lbs lighter, PER CORNER so the truck would be happier.  I was later able to sell the rims and tires for pretty much what I got the 'new' setup for, to some farm kid who wanted to make sure that he got the center caps so that his friends would know he had genuine Fuel rims. While standing in my driveway waiting for the e-transfer to come through, he also told me about all the burnouts he's done with his truck. Either these tires or his driveline won't be much longer for the world. The day I had the new rims and tires put on, I dropped the truck off at the bodyshop. After looking at it more closely, they called back and said they wouldn't be able to fix the frame and that there was rust around the rear shock towers as well. He said he'd get me a quote for a decent used frame, and a new one from Toyota. Over the next little while, he found out that a new frame from Toyota was going to be a staggering $13,200 after taxes, and that was just for the frame and spare tire carrier/cross brace. He thought he had a line on a good used frame, until the junkyard pulled the truck apart and found out that it was also hosed. Around this same time, I started getting persistent P0420 and P0430 codes. Again, after posting in one of the chat threads, it was suggested that the cats could have failed. Here is a graph of both Bank 1 and Bank 2 downstream sensors, after a highway drive (with stops) to get the cats hot. At the end there, when the readings bounce around all over the place...that's my indication that it's the cats, not the sensors, right?   Anyway, I collected my rolling pile of parts that resembled a truck, and started making my own inquiries about frames. Just yesterday, I got ahold of one of the yards the bodyshop had contacted (ironically they're back home about an hour and a half from my parent's place). They're Toyota/Tacoma specific, and had a 'serviceable' frame, and another one in better shape, but one of the cab mounts had been tweaked in a crash. When the guy went to check the tweaked one out to see if it was fixable, he found another truck he didn't realize was in the yard. The motor and trans were already out of that truck, and the frame is still black with stickers on it. I told him I'd take it if they took the truck apart and verified it wasn't also trash. So, now the thread title is explained - this truck has lived, died, and will live again. I'm going to have the bodyshop sandblast and coat this replacement frame, because at this point, why not. I'll have the newest 2005 Tacoma around! Now - Is there anything that anyone can think of that I might have overlooked (besides a pre-purchase inspection). Any suggestions for upgraded parts? Captain McAllister fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Nov 15, 2019 |
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Nov 15, 2019 21:06
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This is ambitious as gently caress and I'm looking forward to see how fun it is.Captain McAllister posted:Any suggestions for upgraded parts? Comedy answer, 1GZ None comedy answer, paint every thing gold. or bronze, like, everything you have to move over to the new frame. also the new frame. Nobody paints frames cool colors anymore. Powershift fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Nov 15, 2019 |
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Nov 15, 2019 21:54
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Powershift posted:This is ambitious as gently caress and I'm looking forward to see how fun it is. With the thread title I'm pretty sure he has to paint it shiny and chrome. No joke clicked on this thread because I just completed a (much less ambitious) rebuild of a wrecked Subaru and used the same reference. Get some Warboy logo emblems to replace the front and rear Toyota badges. You know you want to.
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Nov 16, 2019 19:53
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Powershift posted:This is ambitious as gently caress and I'm looking forward to see how fun it is. I would say a worked 1KD-FTV 3.0TD... Theres guys here in Aus who just squeezed 850hp out of one of them in a drag hilux! Comedy option is a 1VD-FTV twin turbo V8 turbo diesel from a 200 series
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Nov 17, 2019 01:07
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Ferremit posted:I would say a worked 1KD-FTV 3.0TD... Theres guys here in Aus who just squeezed 850hp out of one of them in a drag hilux! Hmmm. I just looked up the 1KD-FTV, and the first thing I found was this guy who looked into it, and found it would be stupid expensive and the injector rails aren't supported here so maintenance would be an utter bitch...
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Nov 17, 2019 02:03
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Last I spoke with the junkyard, the frame should be ready to go tomorrow. I've posted on various Facebook groups, put an 'ad' up on Uship, and have called various shipping companies. Lowest so far is $1200, highest is $4400  .I'm waiting for a callback from a sandblasting/powdercoating place. I'm going to see how much it would cost to do like a plum crazy purple or lime green, because at this point why not...  How hard is it to do headers/exhaust while in the truck? If my cats are dead, I don't think anything off of Rockauto will arrive in time, so I might have to do it later.
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Nov 20, 2019 00:16
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I realize you might not want to say anything but why didn’t you go back to the guy and raise hell about lying? And did you not try to get some goodwill from Toyota missing the cutoff by just 3 weeks? I’ve seen stacks of tacoma frames behind the dealer here and we don’t even really have rust here can only imagine what it’s like up north.
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Nov 20, 2019 02:41
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They even rusted out in Texas; I remember seeing frames (new and rusted out) stacked up at every Toyota dealership I passed for a long time. A cousin had one of a similar vintage that spent its entire life in Austin (she was the original owner), and even that one had some decent (but not holey) cancer of the frame when she got rid of it. Nice looking truck, but man, that sucks about the frame. And those graphs do point at dead kitties. 
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Nov 20, 2019 07:52
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everdave posted:I realize you might not want to say anything but why didn’t you go back to the guy and raise hell about lying? And did you not try to get some goodwill from Toyota missing the cutoff by just 3 weeks? I’ve seen stacks of tacoma frames behind the dealer here and we don’t even really have rust here can only imagine what it’s like up north. I'm considering civil action. A lawyer has told me I need to get costs together so he can send a 'demand letter' to the PO... two provinces away. Basically that lets them know how much I want back, and is the first 'proper' step in the process. I have screenshots of all our conversations, and over the years have seen people recommend others in a similar situation to not post too many details here. I tried calling Toyota, and they explained this wasn't a recall, but had been Court ordered. So, no extensions. I tried emailing Toyota, and they again essentially politely told me to kick rocks. I'm honestly surprised at their reaction. STR posted:They even rusted out in Texas; I remember seeing frames (new and rusted out) stacked up at every Toyota dealership I passed for a long time. A cousin had one of a similar vintage that spent its entire life in Austin (she was the original owner), and even that one had some decent (but not holey) cancer of the frame when she got rid of it. I've never had a Toyota before, and I wasn't aware just how big this problem was until I found myself here. Lesson learned on the research/PPI front, that's for drat sure. I was pretty sure the cats are toasted. With the timeline I have I don't think parts from Rockauto (or anywhere else) would arrive in time unless I paid crazy shipping. I've found posts of guys doing the exhaust while in the truck and it seems easy enough. I think the replacement with upgraded parts will continue after the 'new' frame is in, and my bank account has had some time to recover. Unless there's anything anyone can think of in addition to the stuff I posted about having replaced while the motor and trans are out:
Captain McAllister fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Nov 20, 2019 |
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Nov 20, 2019 20:23
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Toyota Canada has terrible customer service. They told us that a fraying seatbelt in a '90 Celica wouldn't be even partially covered even though in the States that would be an instant replacement.
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Nov 20, 2019 20:38
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Seat Safety Switch posted:Toyota Canada has terrible customer service. They told us that a fraying seatbelt in a '90 Celica wouldn't be even partially covered even though in the States that would be an instant replacement. One thing I do know in USA if it is seatbelt malfunction they HAVE to fix it (if not because of wreck) no matter the age as far as I know. Had a friend in the past 10 years had Accord with automatic seatbelts fail or get stuck and they gave him some ridiculous quote i printed out something (this was years ago don't remember details) for him and magically the honda dealership fixed it for free.
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Nov 20, 2019 21:24
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safety parts have very different requirements
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Nov 20, 2019 21:46
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How are modern cars still having these rust issues, especially Toyota of all people?
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Nov 21, 2019 03:39
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everdave posted:One thing I do know in USA if it is seatbelt malfunction they HAVE to fix it (if not because of wreck) no matter the age as far as I know. Had a friend in the past 10 years had Accord with automatic seatbelts fail or get stuck and they gave him some ridiculous quote i printed out something (this was years ago don't remember details) for him and magically the honda dealership fixed it for free. Honda has lifetime warranties on seatbelts in the US, but because of how hard to get (and expensive) the power seatbelt parts are, dealers REALLY hate fixing them. I don't think any other car maker does the lifetime warranty on them. Toyota certainly told a coworker to  when the buckles broke on his early 00s Tundra with ~300k.
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Nov 21, 2019 05:42
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MomJeans420 posted:How are modern cars still having these rust issues, especially Toyota of all people? cost cutting
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Nov 21, 2019 14:53
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Did you do a carfax on the VIN? I'm curious as to where it lived its life. I've never seen the 2nd gen of Taco with a turbofucked from like that in Alberta. Older gens, yes, (a coworker had one that he was meticulous with) but not an 04+.
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Nov 21, 2019 15:18
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MomJeans420 posted:How are modern cars still having these rust issues, especially Toyota of all people? Modern cars here last about a decade before sprouting holes. It does not really matter what automaker it is, but domestic manufacturers seem to be a little better at it. Most automakers don't seem to believe our corrosion issues are as bad as they actually are. And they're only getting worse here, a city north of us got an even more caustic salt mixture because it saved a few pennies and ended up eating the rebar out of the inside of a brand new bridge in under two years. Our city council was shocked when the guy who is in charge of bike lanes for the city came in during a winter and his brand new bicycle's gearset was a lump of inert rust. Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 15:30
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What was the deal with that frame issue anyway? Was it a bad bunch of metal? lovely factory coating?
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Nov 21, 2019 17:44
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wesleywillis posted:What was the deal with that frame issue anyway? Combination of poor coating and a design that captures road salt and other debris in impossible-to-clean areas, if I remember correctly.
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Nov 21, 2019 18:02
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I live in Los Angeles but not near the ocean so rust isn't a thing for me, but I thought all modern cars were coated with something (galvanic something or other) and weren't supposed to rust? Or is that just high end cars?
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Nov 21, 2019 19:11
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slidebite posted:Did you do a carfax on the VIN? I'm curious as to where it lived its life. I've never seen the 2nd gen of Taco with a turbofucked from like that in Alberta. Older gens, yes, (a coworker had one that he was meticulous with) but not an 04+. Sure did! Was bought new in Kamloops, and there was a service record also in Kamloops at 140k km. So I'm pretty sure it spent most of its life in the interior. Given the winch bumper and lift kit, it probably saw its fair share of mud and crap too. Also remember it's an 05, the first year of the second gen, so its had the most time to get hosed up.
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Nov 21, 2019 19:20
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MomJeans420 posted:I live in Los Angeles but not near the ocean so rust isn't a thing for me, but I thought all modern cars were coated with something (galvanic something or other) and weren't supposed to rust? Or is that just high end cars? Most modern cars get a sort of electrolytic 'dip' coating after the unibody is welded. You end up with a very thin coating of zinc. It's good stuff - and keeps getting better as the technology improves, but it's not particularly deep, so scratches and abrasion from vibrations will eventually break through it. Once you've got some bare metal, the corrosion will attack through it behind the coating. Some higher end cars (best seen on 80s Audis) have been hot-dip galvanized, where they basically dope the unibody with molten zinc in an acid bath. The coating is much thicker than e-coat (though e-coat is improving leaps and bounds in the last decade) and can help fill in spots where the body is incompletely welded. Usually these don't rust as frequently or as easily, except after repairs since the auto body shop cannot restore the galvanization after building a patch panel out of mild steel or even after stripping the panel for a repaint. It's a pretty expensive process, and it likely isn't all that environmentally friendly, I suspect. Most of where you're going to see rust is in joints where the car has been welded together (inner fenders, etc) and dirt/debris is trapped. Eventually, that grime traps moisture and corrodes the steel. Salt makes the reaction happen much faster. In the winter, you're basically driving your car through salt water constantly and pelting it with rocks and chunks of ice. Some automakers (again, 80s Audis) will fill the inside of panels and frames with wax or another coating to help hold off internal corrosion, but you're not going to see that on anything with a thin margin (or modern Audis, since they don't expect them to last a decade-plus anyway). A lot of people who live in lovely environments (Ontario, the UK) frequently apply a temporary undercoat like Fluid Film in addition to cavity wax. In my experience, a lot of cars also aren't designed to go through the temperature shifts that we see here in Alberta. You can go from 65-°F to -10°F within the span of a single day, and all that contracting and expanding of the panels means that inevitably something's going to rub. 90s Hondas were especially bad for this, where the plastic bumper would scrape off little nubs of the rear fender paint, which then immediately rots. Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Nov 22, 2019 |
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Nov 22, 2019 03:58
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So I called the local Toyota dealership to ask if I could get the 'bolt kit' that they use for one of these swaps, to make everything go faster. I've found a copy of the parts list posted by someone that had the swap done by a dealer. I gave the guy the first number, and he said it's not available to order without a serial number. Basically, I can't buy it because Toyota want a serial # (ie reason) for why it's being ordered. How is it legal to deny the frame replacement, AND deny the availability of the parts required? In other news, I fiddled with a few things on the truck yesterday. The upstream exhaust sensors on both sides look suspiciously new. The truck threw a MAF sensor code a while ago so I disconnected the battery, pulled it and sprayed it with contact cleaner. It also looks suspiciously new/clean. When I started the truck up afterward, the check engine light was gone. It was still gone when I started the truck up again later. Junkyard says the frame should be ready to go, and looks good. They're going to leave the front LCAs and rear leaf springs on, so, bonus?
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Nov 22, 2019 21:39
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Captain McAllister posted:So I called the local Toyota dealership to ask if I could get the 'bolt kit' that they use for one of these swaps, to make everything go faster. I'd start tweeting at or calling Toyota North America, this sounds like a dumb problem caused by a dumb dealership that they'd love to know about.
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Nov 22, 2019 21:52
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Krakkles posted:They're not looking for the VIN? (It still seems weird, if so, especially if they call it the "serial number", but it wouldn't be the first time it happened.) They have the VIN - the guy clarified that's not what they need. Say my frame swap had been approved by Toyota, they would have been given a serial #, and could order the parts under that #. No serial #, no parts, it sounds like.
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Nov 22, 2019 21:57
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Captain McAllister posted:They have the VIN - the guy clarified that's not what they need. Say my frame swap had been approved by Toyota, they would have been given a serial #, and could order the parts under that #.
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Nov 22, 2019 21:59
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Have you tried googling the P/N you need? There are several Toyota dealers who sell parts online at a huge discount.
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Nov 22, 2019 22:50
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Your gonna want these.. https://www.toyodiy.com Massive EPC database covering pretty much anything toyota has ever made https://www.partsouq.com - huge toyota parts retailer out of the UAE- massively cheaper compared to most other places and can get some really oddball stuff. https://www.amayama.com - another parts retailer, both ex japan and ex UAE. Used to be great for australia, but stopped playing nice when they introduced the requirement of GST to online purchases. Try entering that bolt kit part number into either of those and see what you get.
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Nov 22, 2019 22:59
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Ferremit posted:Your gonna want these.. Thanks, Ferremit. Here's the list of parts I found - guy also had a 2005 double cab, so this should be everything I'd presumably need:
Anything that starts with '04XXX' isn't listed on the Toyodiy site. I gave the dealership parts guy the part # for the 'common replacement kit A' (04001-71104) and that's one of the ones he said he couldn't get without a 'serial' number. I'll check the other two sites out of curiosity, as well. I've also posted on the Toyota Canada Facebook page so I'll see what (if anything) comes of that. Edit: just checked the other two sites, as well as toyotapartsdirect.ca. Nothing for the '04XXX' #s... Captain McAllister fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Nov 23, 2019 |
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Nov 23, 2019 01:10
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Captain McAllister posted:Thanks, Ferremit. I'm not sure if anyone here has used them, but I've ordered more expensive poo poo from random websites in google results and had good outcomes. Edit: They appear to be real? The fact that the site has "Scion" misspelled isn't great, but I'd say this is enough info for me to try 'em. Krakkles fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Nov 23, 2019 |
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Nov 23, 2019 02:27
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Krakkles posted:I know how the internet can go wrong here, and I don't want to vouch for the site, but this was the first google result I found. I did the same thing, and a few links further down was this PDF which is not only Toyota's own 'how to' for the frame swap, but it explains what all of the part #s I listed before ARE. Edit: man, shipping to Canada is almost as expensive as the parts themselves... Captain McAllister fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Nov 23, 2019 |
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Nov 23, 2019 03:49
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If you can do it, it's usually best to batch parts at a border warehouse and then drive across and pick it all up in one shot. For some stuff you really do save like $30-40 in shipping per item, and it's not even big stuff.
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Nov 23, 2019 05:19
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Usually stuff like that is VIN restricted so I’m pretty sure you just got a loving idiot of a parts guy
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Nov 24, 2019 14:39
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Toyota called me. Told me (again) that this wasn't a recall, but a court-ordered "warranty enhancement program" and reiterated that the end dates were set by the Court, so there's nothing they'll do about it. The guy did tell me that he'll look into the parts ordering thing. I called the shipper who provided the best rate, so that used frame will be on its way.
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Nov 25, 2019 22:02
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Captain McAllister posted:Toyota called me. Told me (again) that this wasn't a recall, but a court-ordered "warranty enhancement program" and reiterated that the end dates were set by the Court, so there's nothing they'll do about it. "We were ordered to do this, we're not doing it out of the goodness of our hearts"  As someone who lusts after Tacos of all generations but lives in the salt belt I feel your pain. Every time I get close to pulling the trigger on one of them I start reading rust threads and looking at pictures of frames stacked like cordwood behind dealerships and there goes my excitement. I've read stores of people with 2012+ (outside of the recall, iirc) having rust issues. I see frame-replaced used models but do I really trust some underpaid Toyota mechanic to give a poo poo while performing frame replacements?
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Nov 26, 2019 22:21
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toyotaframesettlement.ca posted:What benefits may be available under this settlement? e: nevermind, it's 12 years from original date of sale or until July 2019. Sorry about that.
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Nov 27, 2019 17:06
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Well, the frame is on its way - the shipping company picked it up yesterday, and the bodyshop should have it Monday. URD are also having a Black Friday sale so I ordered one of their short throw shifter kits. I also ordered a set of Depo replacement headlights, because mine are yellowed/fogged to hell and I think it's affecting the light output at night. Toyota called me and explained that there's no production line for these frames anymore, so they're being built one-by-one. Does that make ANY sense? The customer service rep told me a new frame would be $15k, but seemed to have forgotten my other questions about being able to order the other parts ('hardware kits') and started to explain that parts aren't made for these vehicles anymore. I countered that they made them from 2005-2014, so there probably would be. When I told him I'd found Toyota's own PDF for the frame replacement via Google, that lists all the parts in the kits, he explained he wasn't a tech. He's still going to look into that part of things for me.
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Nov 27, 2019 23:05
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Captain McAllister posted:He's still going to look into that part of things for me. Narrator: He wasn't.
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Nov 29, 2019 04:35
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beep-beep car is go posted:Narrator: He wasn't. Actually, I just got off the phone with him again. He explained that those part numbers were made specifically for this issue, between the Court dates, and they're not available for private sale. What the gently caress, Toyota?
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Nov 29, 2019 20:45
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You got hosed on step 1, rip
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Nov 29, 2019 22:07
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