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Wow. You know, I thought I'd made peace with this possibility a long time ago, but it still feels unreal. I remember reading Berserk back in college, at my roommate's suggestion. Since then I've always tried to keep up with it in one form or another, waiting awhile then reading several chapters. Something in the backdrop, though it does keep me out of the loop. May 6th, man. That's right after Golden Week. Stay golden, Miura. Everyone, take care of yourselves.
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May 22, 2021 04:02
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| # ¿ May 13, 2024 20:11 |
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Still don't know how I feel about this, but Kouji Mori's a respectable choice, given his and Miura's relationship. There's honestly no one else I'd trust.
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Jun 7, 2022 06:15
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Allegedly, Mori's initial pitch for wrapping up the series was publishing an article (with illustrations) summing up Miura's intentions for the finale. Last year, when the news first hit, my best friend and I commiserated over his death and discussed the manga, and we both agreed that'd be our preferred way to conclude the series. Obviously that's not what they're doing, but that Mori felt similarly to us (if hearsay is viable) gives me that additional pinch of faith in his ability to see things through. He gets it, man, he gets it.
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Jun 7, 2022 06:59
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LordMune posted:It's not really allegedly if it's just what Mori straight-up says in the text pic in the tweet Burkion posted:I mean, that's what he himself says in his letter to the fanbase. So it's not really allegedly. I recalled the article comment from Skullknight, so I slapped allegedly on there. My bad.
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Jun 7, 2022 07:28
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Death of the Author. A new thread would be good but I wouldn't mind if we waited for the first official Mori-era chapter to hit.
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Jun 8, 2022 03:13
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The kid and Griffith are two different entities who happen to share the same existence. This was the genius of the last chapter, to me: the kid leaves Griffith vulnerable, but killing Griffith probably also kills the kid. Would Guts sacrifice the life of his own son to strike at his own worst enemy? That's already a painful premise, but then the knife twists: Griffith (and the God Hand) are up to no good, and even if Guts were to make peace with him on a personal level (he can't and won't, but if he could), he can't just ignore him either, lest the world as a whole get dragged down with him. Guts needs to make a difficult choice in a circumstance where there's no choice to make. We're approaching peak suffering.
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Jun 8, 2022 03:30
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Even without that angle, Griffith's whole deal was plunging the world into misery so only his kingdom, conveniently and uniquely free from strife, would draw people to it. Any peaceful settlement capable of holding its own without his consent can't be allowed to exist. Falconia must stand as the world's only refuge.
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Jun 8, 2022 03:50
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6uN9xYUMxE
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Jun 10, 2022 02:23
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Berserk's always been a slow-burn in terms of plot, so I'm not too surprised. We did learn some things, so that's something. The art's fine, though the girls are a bit uncanny (though that was true for Miura, too). Their faces have become increasingly doll-like over the years.
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Jun 23, 2022 01:36
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My guess is Griffith's invincible, but the moon child isn't. Guts can kill Griffith, but he's gotta look his own son in the eye to do it.Burkion posted:I think they got better by the end of the last chapter, though Farnese looks almost...not sinister, but like she's expecting something.  The contrast between her neck and her face is really jarring.
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Jun 23, 2022 02:23
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Guts and Griffith already did as much talking as they're probably ever gonna do at the Hill of Swords.
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Jun 25, 2022 01:09
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Rickert's skill as a gadgeteer should be enough to break the ice between him and any group of fellow humans. How many of Guts' kills are indirectly Rickerts' through his hand cannon again?
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Jun 26, 2022 11:27
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You gotta wonder though, after the first 99 guys got cut down, what was the last guy thinking?
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Aug 7, 2022 08:56
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Reminds me of playing Yakuza with a buddy. Kiryu clears out a whole building, steps outside, and immediately gets accosted by three dudes in hoodies. My friend turns to me and says, "I literally just fought my way through several floors of mafia goons, challenged their leader to a shirtless fistfight on the roof, and won, but no, THESE GUYS, RIGHT HERE, are gonna END THE MADNESS."
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Aug 8, 2022 14:10
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Not sure how I feel about this development. On the one hand, Casca getting kidnapped immediately after getting cured feels kinda weak; I wanted to see more of Casca finding her footing, being a character again. On the other, Griffith taking her away is actually kind of surprising. I understand the child's love for his mother, but Griffith's interest in Casca has always been shallow and self-serving (even when they were on good terms), and ultimately spiteful. Griffith was "Done" with Guts and Casca both, and neglected to deal with either of them on several occasions before now. I can only imagine Casca poses some threat to him if left unattended, or this was a long-con to find Elfhelm and destroy it (like he did Flora's tree).
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Aug 11, 2022 16:59
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Burkion posted:It might be more awful and pragmatic than that on his part
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Aug 11, 2022 17:36
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Honestly, I don't think defeating the Godhand, as a whole, was ever on the table. Guts versus Griffith will get resolved, and that'll be that; the rest is just context. At best, Skullknight might take out Void (who seems to be the member of the Godhand he has the most beef with), but otherwise I'm not expecting much. My feeling for awhile has been Guts will defeat Griffith, but it'll cost him everything. Not only is he running himself ragged, he now knows Griffith and the Moonlit Child share the same body, and I'd be willing to bet defeating Griffith will involve killing the child, his own son (flashbacks to Gambino); and by that I mean he'll have to look the kid in the eyes when he does it, not just "Oops I killed Griffith and now my son is also dead." The world will be saved (well, temporarily; one can't imagine Berserk's world staying safe for too long), but it was never about the world. It was always about Guts and Griffith. Wish I could include Casca in there but, well...
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Aug 12, 2022 10:15
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I've felt for awhile now the endgame is Guts activating the Behelit, but then refusing to submit to the Godhand. My pet theory for years, rejuvenated (surprisingly) by the recent Skullknight flashback, was that Guts was being groomed to join the Godhand - that Griffith was just a temporary member, a bench warmer as it were - and when he hit his lowest point, Void would offer him a pact. This would naturally come as a huge surprise to Griffith, who (in my mind) would be kept in the dark about it, a poetic zinger to his ambitions: everything he did, everything he sacrificed, he (unknowningly) did for someone else's sake (just like Ganishka). My thinking was, previously, Skullknight (i.e. Emperor Gaiseric) had also been a member of the Godhand, but had gotten replaced by Void (with their relationship being similar to Griffith and Guts', save for Void being a sage instead of a soldier). Then Guts tells Void to piss off and strikes Griffith in the confusion. This was before Miura confirmed Griffith and the Moonlit Child were one and the same, so obviously, I need to make some adjustments.
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Aug 12, 2022 15:16
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To be clear, I want to trust in Miura's plan, it's just I'm also a little heartbroken Guts and Casca can't have more time to heal together. Despite the series' abrupt ending (before Mori took over the reigns), that they were still together at Elfhelm brought me a kind of peace. Guts' anguish is also mine. Stab him in the dick, Guts.
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Aug 13, 2022 11:43
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Yeah, it still wasn't a happy situation, but things like Casca being able to have a conversation with Guts (so long as she wasn't looking at him), and both of them playing (separately) with their son brought some emotional closure to me. Obviously Casca not being able to even look at Guts would be a major narrative hurdle to overcome, but all the same, I'm sad the opportunity wasn't explored. Even trying and failing (before getting whisked away) would be a little more time "Together."
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Aug 13, 2022 17:04
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The Bag Swordsman.
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Aug 13, 2022 17:06
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfD7nScwPb8
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Aug 14, 2022 07:10
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As I understand it, there are several layers to this conversation. On a surface level, and by default, I don't think any author should be limited in telling the sort of stories they want to, even ones invoking uncomfortable subject matter (depiction is not endorsement). However, when engaging with difficult topics, the author owes their audience a measure of respect and restraint, insofar as there are unpleasant elements which can enhance a story...but also detract from it when applied poorly, or with mixed priorities. Violence is a part of life, a part of the human condition, as is sexual violence. It's an unfortunate state of affairs but, historically speaking, them's the breaks. But you know, taking a dump is also part of the human experience, and I can't say I've read too many books prominently featuring people going to the bathroom (please do not recommend me books about people going to the bathroom), so clearly there is some cut-off point past which grim and gritty authors, allegedly eager to illustrate reality through the lens of fiction, have largely decided not to tread. But of course, you might call that a false comparison. What could depicting a bowel movement possibly add to a story? Well, assuming you could think of something, you might include it; otherwise, I imagine you wouldn't. Similarly, when a story employs sexual violence, what is the net result? What is gained? Further complicating things is the ubiquity of sexual violence. An animated show in which characters decimate whole cities (and presumably their inhabitants) by concentrating all their power into energy blasts will often find itself with a lower age rating than another animated show in which one character, one time, fires a gun into another character. The scale is considerably smaller, more infrequent, yet it's graded more harshly. Why? Because it's real. Energy blasts are pure fantasy. No child watching cartoons will ever be able to summon up their inner reserves of martial prowess and throw a Street Fighter fireball, but dad's gun is in the closet, not even locked. The fact that it's something so close and present to our modern experience puts us more on edge. Likewise, a lot of the good ol' fashion regular violence in Berserk is ancient history to us, or similarly fantastic. We haven't had to swing swords at each other for centuries, and to my knowledge no member of the Catholic inquisition ever turned out to be a demonic slug cannibal. This distance softens our reactions to what's being depicted, even as entrails stain the ground. There are people who still live in fear of violence, of course, but not this specific brand of violence. Media depicting firearms faces far more scrutiny from media watchdogs than almost any inclusion of sword and sorcery. But rape is not so ancient. As the oft-cited statistic says, 1 in 6 women in the U.S. will be preyed up in this manner, unsuccessfully or otherwise (and of course men are also victimized, albeit in smaller numbers). Sexual violence feels more real, more transgressive, even as we watch action movies where mooks get shot and stabbed and blown up, because it's closer to our lived experience, or that of those we care for. This alone does not render it off limits for storytelling, but it presents a kind of responsibility to handle with care. In this respect, Miura's decision to include sexual violence in his work wasn't strictly unnecessary: Berserk's world is one at war, where such things happen, and all three of its main characters (and a few of its side characters) are introduced as victims (first), and their pain is taken seriously and used for characterization and growth. Guts, Casca, and Griffith were each preyed upon in different ways in their respective backstories, carried that trauma with them, and were able to grow beyond it. To a lesser degree, Farnese is another such character, defined in her case by an unhealthy sexual fixation that results in self-harm and the hurting of others. She, too, grows past this. And arguably, yes, the horrors of the Eclipse serve a particular purpose in how it draws the curtain on the Golden Age, a vile act that destroys all three characters involved. But just because some of Berserk's depictions of sexual violence contribute to the arc of the plot and characters doesn't mean all of them do, nor that those which are narratively significant are without issue. I agree with the posters in this thread who claim the rape during the Eclipse was a meaningful event, in and of itself, but I also agree with the posters who felt it was framed in an exploitative manner. Casca being reduced to a mute invalid is trickier to reconcile, made a little fairer by her recovery from her flashback assault, and the fact that Griffith's literally a demonic entity now, made a little worse by how it grinds her characterization to a halt, and the fact that Griffith only hurt her to hurt Guts; not that that never happens either, but that's a larger conversation I literally couldn't have less time for. Then you have everything else, much of which is frankly juvenile and functions as little better than cheap shock value to "Hype" up how terrifying the villains are. Wyald is the classic call-out, but even Ganishka (who I'd normally argue is a well-conceived, well-executed villain, with a pinch of pathos even) does edgelord nonsense like holding women captive over a pit of crocodiles, employing the least effective method of producing future generations of soldiers from captured women ever conceived (impractical even as a scare tactic, its secondary purpose). By that point it's so ridiculous you stop taking it seriously at all. Even if the purpose was to invoke disgust and contempt from the reader (and I do believe characters like Wyald and Ganishka were intended to invoke both disgust and contempt), the sheer saturation and extremes depicted rob it of any "Gravitas" one might attempt to apply to Miura's "Unflinching depiction of the horrors of war." Yes, bad things happen in war. Even things comparable to this. But presentation matters. Context matters. It's pulp, not pain. Same for the evil horse. Same for the trolls. The Tower of Conviction incorporates sexuality with a touch more thematic weight and narrative purpose, but also gets bogged down in the name of pulpy sensationalism. I first discovered Berserk in college, which was some time ago. I wouldn't say I was more forgiving of Miura's excesses then so much as I simply compartmentalized the bits I didn't care for and skimmed past them (something I imagine many of us have done at one or more points in our lives, consuming fiction we love except for that one part we always remember when someone asks if we'd recommend it). Depictions of rape and molestation and sexualized self-harm have their place as story elements when employed with consideration, and I've read stories that approached these topics with tact, but in aggregate I'd call Miura's attempts to do so sloppy at best, and yes, pornographic at worst. I would much prefer the alternate universe iteration of Berserk where Miura showed more restraint in this area.
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Aug 19, 2022 17:37
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Great post, the only thing I think I disagree with is this. Frankly, I don't feel like Griffith ever cared for any of the Hawks; not personally. He cared for them in aggregate, as soldiers - his soldiers - but I never got the sense he was particularly invested in anyone before Guts (nor after Guts; he dotes on Charlotte but she, too, is little more than a game piece). He recognized Casca for her skills as a commander, but otherwise I always felt like he was looking past her. Even when he finally sees her as she wishes he saw her, as a woman, it feels oddly impersonal. His short-lived fantasy of being taken care of by Casca in the countryside is about as white bread as it gets: in what way does the woman in his vision even remotely resemble Casca, beyond her appearance? I have no doubt Casca would've cared for Griffith, but his daydream reveals how little he understands her. Forced to abandon his dream, he copes by briefly imagining something more humble, before realizing this too would be impossible. I've read two of the most common straight male fantasies are 1.) fighting alongside one's brothers-in-arms, and 2.) being tenderly cared for by a woman you can feel vulnerable around. Griffith idealizes Casca as the latter, but only because she's a woman he happens to know, and its his own vulnerability he has in mind. It's not because she's Casca, specifically; he had numerous opportunities to acknowledge her feelings, to do her the service of freeing her heart, or explaining to her why they're incompatible (he needs a princess, after all). The only time he ever acknowledges her feelings is when they happen to overlap with his own desires. Any woman would've done, just Casca was the one who was there. But then there's Guts. Griffith fixates on Guts like no one else. He wants Guts (people often joke or speculate in a sexual way), he "Belongs" to him. I somehow can't see him fretting over any other member of the Hawk disbanding. Guts made him "Forget" his dream, and losing Guts was what hastened his destruction. To see Guts again, after he left: what did he leave for anyway? Did he even have a dream? Did he leave for nothing? Did he ruin Griffith's life over nothing? But no, he has something. He has Casca, and she has him. The passing fantasy he briefly entertained himself with...was all Guts ever really wanted all along (to his eyes, at least). So when the time comes to take revenge on Guts - and it is Guts he's thinking about before he accepts the Godhand's offer - Casca is once again useful to him, as the best way to hurt his former friend. If it'd just been Casca, and Guts was already dead or nowhere to be found, I feel pretty strongly he would've simply killed her and moved on. Sex has always been linked with obtaining power for Griffith, and he already had power over Casca; Guts was the one thing eluding his grasp, so he punished Guts by punishing the one person with power over him: Casca. In my opinion, Casca was always an object to him. Lucasar posted:That said, I'm not sure I understand how the rape during the eclipse can be singled out as pornographic. Of course it's pornographic! Berserk's illustrations are gorgeous and thoughtful, but they also teeter on the edge of self-parody at all times. Consider all the excessive, gratuitous violence that pervades the story both before and after the eclipse. Consider the insane hypermasculine power fantasy that is Guts. How can anybody who reads Berserk and sees the size of Guts' sword not be expecting problematic depictions of sexual violence, and indeed, all kinds of violence? It seems bizarre to me to not admit that Berserk eroticizes violence, but also equally bizarre to pretend that the only time it is eroticizing violence in is when there are tits in the panel. Or that the only time it is problematic to eroticize violence is when there are tits in the panel. Mazed posted:This is true, but not to discredit Mozgus. His archetype isn't unusual but he has a compelling villain formula: 1) He believes he's 100% good despite being 2) objectively 100% evil, and 3) is a weird fuckin dude in his own right. Bad Seafood fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Aug 23, 2022 |
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Aug 23, 2022 10:54
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My take is the fairy tale creatures native to this island and its surrounding waters cannot remain in this layer of reality. They're still alive, they just can't interact with the material plane any longer. I doubt this affects all creatures everywhere, however: Griffith needs to keep up the illusion back home that his is the only safe kingdom. Don't know what this means for Puck (if he disappeared, that'd be truly wild), but seeing Isma vanish made me sad. Poor Guts though, dude can't catch a break. Seeing him cling to his sword like a kid again...geez. PhantomOfTheCopier posted:(Not a spoiler since it happened in the previous chapter) but what options does Guts even have? He can't approach Griffith physically, even with magic in the sword. It seems like he either makes a bargain ("set Casca free, let the apostles chomp me") or becomes a god ("who says these Godhand need to get along, I'll become one and point at Griffith and laugh at his hair").
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Sep 9, 2022 23:24
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Behelits aren't activated by despair, they activate when they're supposed to (which always coincides with the user's peak despair). That is hasn't activated here means either Guts will never trigger it or he still hasn't reached his lowest point.
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Sep 9, 2022 23:58
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Man has no control, not even over his own will.
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Apr 17, 2023 11:34
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He made a few mistakes.
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Jun 12, 2023 04:17
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Tosk posted:Where does everyone stand on the continuation? I respect Kouji Mori as the only person close enough to Miura to deliver on his notes, but my relationship with his authorship is largely utilitarian. I would have also preferred some kind of rough outline with a few illustrations and sketches, but Mori's efforts are serviceable insofar as they provide a potential outlet for Griffith gettin' got and the others getting by.
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Nov 16, 2023 16:07
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| # ¿ May 13, 2024 20:11 |
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To expand on my earlier post, I wanna clarify: I'm not disparaging Mori's efforts (reading my own post back to myself one day after writing it, it reads a bit clinically). Mori and Miura had been best friends since high school, and it's clear this continuation is an act of love from one artist mourning another, processing that into something for us, the readers. I've never been in a position where I had to do something like that, so I don't wanna sound cold or aloof. It isn't Berserk, but I also don't need it to be. It's a gesture from a friend of the departed to his former audience, and that's nice. No one could continue Berserk, but I'm glad someone's closing the door in a respectful way.
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Nov 17, 2023 10:06
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