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Killer robot posted:I mean, a few things. Romney is still the same right-wing vulture capitalist that grinned at the news of the Benghazi deaths, but that still compares favorably with the people who were just as bad as him in 2012 but today are openly embracing lawless authoritarianism and open white nationalism at Trump's feet. So it's one of those "don't punish the behaviors you want to see" things. I have always had the impression Mormons are at least, for the most part, acting in good faith in accordance with their religion. This doesn't mean their horrendous right wing poo poo is okay. It does distinguish them from Evangelical Christians who are just spiteful horrendous shits that twist their religion to justify their right wing garbage. Jarmak fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Feb 7, 2020 |
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Feb 7, 2020 13:31
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People are all the same, I find it hard to believe there's any appreciable difference.
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Feb 7, 2020 13:43
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BiggerBoat posted:That speech today was...uh... Part of it is that it requires them to admit that they were wrong about Trump, especially if there is friction between them and family members over their support of him. I have in-laws that cling to the whole "Blue Collar Businessmen" bit and literally believe that he's as competent as portrayed by The Apprentice.
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Feb 7, 2020 14:09
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Sam Seder has a joke that he wrote a book called "blaming the electorate" Its true though that the electorate is horrible. The fact right wing media has deliberately misled their viewers coupled with the right wing assault on education has led to this place we are right now. The MSM is more interested in ratings and ad revenue than actually informing people as to what is happening and you need to spend a little more time to become truly informed that most people dont have. Most of the electorate doesn't even know what is going on in the country because they have gotten so much spin that they believe things are going great even though they are in considerable debt and living by juggling credit cards. I'm really worried that because of all this now republicans will just take not only unlimited money from shady dark money groups but also from foreign groups. Not that the republicans were actually doing the will of the american people but now they have foreign investors to put before the voters too.
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Feb 7, 2020 14:11
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Guess Ailes was right after all. (He famously came up with the idea for Fox News when he realized that a right wing media empire would have saved Nixon from impeachment)
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Feb 7, 2020 15:41
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Jarmak posted:I have always had the impression Mormons are at least, for the most part, acting in good faith in accordance with their religion. This doesn't mean their horrendous right wing poo poo is okay. Organized religion of any stripe is one of the greatest sources of hypocrisy known to mankind. This poo poo literally ancient yo.
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Feb 7, 2020 17:50
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Before this thread meets its end, I just wanna give a shoutout to eke out and all the other posters who participated and posted news and such. It definitely helped keep me up to date and well informed on everything that was happening. This poo poo has been unreal, from the beginning of Trump’s presidency. A lying, petty, narcissistic conman, who is brazenly corrupt and openly proud of his family’s grift. While we all knew how this was gonna end, with Republicans just being cool with all the crimes, it was still extremely unsettling to see it literally happen with the final votes in the Senate. Historians have their work cut out for them with the task of documenting the administration of Donald John Trump, and these dark days for our democracy, in general. This thread, and y’all, absolutely made this shitshow more bearable. I can only hope we have better days ahead.
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Feb 7, 2020 17:57
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ManBoyChef posted:Sam Seder has a joke that he wrote a book called "blaming the electorate" Considering CNN is proudly featuring sweetheart pieces by Republican Hacks like Scott Jennings filled with unchecked and patently untrue assertions (but it's okay cause it's just an opinion piece) yeah I wouldn't count on the MSM to keep people informed of the truth and keep much of a check at all on Republicans ability to spread outright disinformation and smears. We fully live in the social media information era at this point. Certain kinds of people (mainly boomers in all honesty, but also just heavy users in general) hear random crazy poo poo enough on Twitter or Facebook about how amazing a job Trump is doing and how terrible his political opponents are and they just kind of believe it without confirming it for themselves and go on bleating about it in every day life to sound like they are on the up and up. Who is to tell them otherwise most of the time? It's not even just that, people believe in a lot of crazy poo poo or perspectives now I could never have seen taking off in prior decades just because that's what tends to get attention and spread via social media algorithms. Dapper_Swindler posted:https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1225481009480839175 I'm getting pretty tired of this only Republicans are people worth ever caring about or mentioning and everyone else are all horrible monsters that deserve nothing but scorn and to be taught a lesson perspective coming out of the American government in increasing amounts. Like it's kind of not that funny really. Kale fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Feb 7, 2020 |
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Feb 7, 2020 18:06
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Jarmak posted:I have always had the impression Mormons are at least, for the most part, acting in good faith in accordance with their religion. This doesn't mean their horrendous right wing poo poo is okay. Putting a facade of righteousness on evil is still evil. Look at mitt Romney.
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Feb 7, 2020 18:29
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Faustian Bargain posted:This is incredibly wrong. Mormons are just as two faced as any other religious people, probably even moreso since their gospel is living. Look at their “relevations” about polygamy and black people that just so happen to line up with other events. That has poo poo all to do with the average adherent
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Feb 7, 2020 18:30
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Majin posted:A good portion of this country is really that dumb. They don’t and will never understand politics and only understand the world around them in their literal bubble - and surprise, surprise, they’re surrounded by even more idiots. This pretty much checks out from my experience, especially in the last decade. It's mind blowing how ignorant people are and how there's this kind of pride that goes along with it. Then there's the internet where I swear people will usually go out of their way to have the most polarized opinion possible that pits them against some form of "other" on some issue, confident that there's plenty of people to back them up on it that will respond to the right keywords, triggers and dog whistles. Essentially in most cases people don't actually have to think, just sort of merge themselves into a tribal like mind meld and be fed opinions from a preferred source. Could be Fox News, could be some political extremist podcaster? The latter tends to be very in vogue lately. People like Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson especially seem aimed at people that just do not have their poo poo together and will rally behind anyone that kind of sounds intelligent and knows what they are talking about with the caveat that they tell them the things they already want to hear. Looking back it's no real surprise that someone like Trump is managing to flourish in this era, though his complete and utter takeover of the Republican party is what really baffles me. It's not that he's just popular within it and they are rallying around the incumbent. Like he went from being a total outsider to being the point of it's entire existence and having near universal support within the party which defies even the extremes of the twitter era and the tendency for trends to take really fast and almost absolutely. That one is still hard for me to understand. Now all I hear from the Republican party is endless bleating about how horrible the Democrats are, how great Trump is and.....yeah that's about it. Just this party of incoherent blind rage against 60+% of America that I could just as soon see passing daily resolutions proclaiming how great Trump is and funding to build massive monuments in his honor as their sole policy initiatives if they were to get full control of congress again. Like if they did they'd literally vote to put him on Mt. Rushmore, that's how much of a Trump cult I believe it's become at this point.
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Feb 7, 2020 18:32
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theflyingorc posted:That has poo poo all to do with the average adherent I mean if you want anecdotal evidence then I can point to tons of examples as a former member. The old joke "why don't you take a single mormon fishing? they'll drink all you're beer" is absolutely accurate.
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Feb 7, 2020 18:34
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theflyingorc posted:That has poo poo all to do with the average adherent This, I'm just talking about personal experience plus what I've observed having Mormon politicians . Definitely not trying to praise the Mormon church. Faustian Bargain posted:I mean if you want anecdotal evidence then I can point to tons of examples as a former member. Yeah I'm not talking about perfect adherence to the faith, I'm talking about "Jesus would put children in concentration camps because they're refugees". Edit: I'm probably wrong for over-generalizing. Just every Morman I've met seemed like they were at least trying to be a good person even if we completely disagreed what that meant. Whereas every person I've ever met who volunteered themselves as an evengelical Christian was a spiteful piece of poo poo. I might be catching a proxy for "white male Southerner" though. Jarmak fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Feb 7, 2020 |
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Feb 7, 2020 18:42
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generic one posted:Before this thread meets its end, I just wanna give a shoutout to eke out and all the other posters who participated and posted news and such. It definitely helped keep me up to date and well informed on everything that was happening. thanks to all y'all regulars and irregulars that participated, this thread was remarkably decent to each other throughout an incredibly unhappy time, and that itself is something
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Feb 7, 2020 18:43
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Kale posted:I'm getting pretty tired of this only Republicans are people worth ever caring about or mentioning and everyone else are all horrible monsters that deserve nothing but scorn and to be taught a lesson perspective coming out of the American government in increasing amounts. Like it's kind of not that funny really. It's the evolution of authoritarian regimes that chew out the organs of democratic societies and wear the hide like a cloak. That rhetoric will just keep getting louder and louder. There will be more and more "investigations" of political opposition, they'll keep being dangerous "traitors" and so on. It's a very, very well worn path in the death of representational democracies. Eventually there will be a critical mass of toadies and yes-men installed in the courts and the DoJ, that they can drop that mask of "investigating" and just start arresting anyone who gets in the way.
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Feb 7, 2020 18:44
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bird food bathtub posted:It's the evolution of authoritarian regimes that chew out the organs of democratic societies and wear the hide like a cloak. That rhetoric will just keep getting louder and louder. There will be more and more "investigations" of political opposition, they'll keep being dangerous "traitors" and so on. It's a very, very well worn path in the death of representational democracies. Eventually there will be a critical mass of toadies and yes-men installed in the courts and the DoJ, that they can drop that mask of "investigating" and just start arresting anyone who gets in the way. https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1225820541954727939 https://twitter.com/donwinslow/status/1225599726189338625 yep.
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Feb 7, 2020 18:50
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Jarmak posted:This, I'm just talking about personal experience plus what I've observed having Mormon politicians . Definitely not trying to praise the Mormon church.  abortion while conveniently ignoring all of the other un-Christlike things Trump says and does.
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Feb 7, 2020 18:55
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Dapper_Swindler posted:https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1225820541954727939 As soon as I learned that Barr was the toad who helped cover up Iran-Contra I knew we were in for some bad times. I didn't know they were going to be this bad.
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Feb 7, 2020 18:56
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Angry_Ed posted:As soon as I learned that Barr was the toad who helped cover up Iran-Contra I knew we were in for some bad times. I didn't know they were going to be this bad. apparently he killed the investigations soon after mueller.
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Feb 7, 2020 18:58
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while i have no doubt that this is broadly true in some way, i don't really see why i should trust extremely vague statements by a fiction author that claims to have explosive inside sources in the DOJ, when reporters that do have those sources are not saying anything of the sort
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Feb 7, 2020 19:01
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eke out posted:while i have no doubt that this is broadly true in some way, i don't really see why i should trust extremely vague statements by a fiction author that claims to have explosive inside sources in the DOJ, when reporters that do have those sources are not saying anything of the sort There's a dailykos article further down saying similar things but I don't know how reputable that is. Didn't realize the original Tweet was from a fiction author
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Feb 7, 2020 19:04
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Kale posted:We fully live in the social media information era at this point. Certain kinds of people (mainly boomers in all honesty, but also just heavy users in general) hear random crazy poo poo enough on Twitter or Facebook about how amazing a job Trump is doing and how terrible his political opponents are and they just kind of believe it without confirming it for themselves and go on bleating about it in every day life to sound like they are on the up and up. Who is to tell them otherwise most of the time? Well, you can certainly try but I've largely given up. They truly live in their own reality and I'm not only tired of wasting my loving time on them but also sick of finding myself in a bad mood over it.
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Feb 7, 2020 20:34
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FilthyImp posted:Guess Ailes was right after all. Fox News somehow both succeded and failed the mission it was put on this earth to accomplish. The general public by a solid majority wanted a full proper senate trial with witnesses and documents, culminating in Trump's removal from office. So it failed to sway public opinion away from conviction and removal. It did succeed, however, in keeping Republican senators in lockstep againt removal, so you can argue that it worked for it's real target auidence, but it didn't fool anyone else outside Trump's invincible 40% base.
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Feb 7, 2020 21:02
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It hasn't failed until Republican power breaks, and you can probably credit it with the W administration too.
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Feb 7, 2020 21:03
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generic one posted:This poo poo has been unreal, from the beginning of Trump’s presidency. A lying, petty, narcissistic conman, who is brazenly corrupt and openly proud of his family’s grift. 
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Feb 7, 2020 21:10
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FilthyImp posted:I remember the days when Facebook and YouTube was CHUDoturfed with "Barack HUSSEIN Obama is the most VENAL and CORRUPT president in HISTORY!!!!!!!" A tan suit was a scandal that lasted for days on Fox. Also, Dijon mustard on a burger.
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Feb 7, 2020 21:18
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Awesome thread Eke Out. Enjoyed reading it.
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Feb 7, 2020 21:37
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Somebody post the link to Vindmann’s firing. Haha such a petty “gently caress you” that the obvious response should be new impeachment hearings that catch these idiots completely by surprise again. 420 impeachment vote every day. I mean it’s too good for him but basically treat Trump like Judd Nelson in the Breakfast Club. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Feb 7, 2020 |
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Feb 7, 2020 22:03
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Both Vindmans got fired, totally normal behavior for an innocent regime. https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1225897019908251651
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Feb 7, 2020 22:47
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generic one posted:Historians have their work cut out for them with the task of documenting the administration of Donald John Trump, and these dark days for our democracy, in general. Trump is going to be treated very favorably by historians. American conservatives are rehabilitating Nixon in real time before our eyes, and their continual assaults on objective reporting will make any attempt at objective history extremely difficult in another 10-20 years. I know people like to think that the ~digital age~ will solve these problems of inaccurate history, but as we saw in the past 4 years it has actually made it more difficult.
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Feb 7, 2020 22:58
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nine-gear crow posted:Fox News somehow both succeded and failed the mission it was put on this earth to accomplish. The general public by a solid majority wanted a full proper senate trial with witnesses and documents, culminating in Trump's removal from office. So it failed to sway public opinion away from conviction and removal. yeah. its kept the GOP ghouls and base intact buts its also alienated pretty much everyone else to this point where they basically dumped atwater's strategy down the toilet for open bigotry. its made them a loud minority with little crossover appeal,
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Feb 7, 2020 23:00
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Jarmak posted:I have always had the impression Mormons are at least, for the most part, acting in good faith in accordance with their religion. This doesn't mean their horrendous right wing poo poo is okay. Most people of most religions are pretty decent, but they all can give cover to evil bastards who wrap themselves in faith, and religious organizations are fertile grounds for said bastards to rise to the top and call the shots. There are absolutely lots of Mormons exactly like that, but they also have a shared history of fairly recently remembering what it's like to be a disliked outgroup, and of relying on community to survive hard times. They're hardly unique in this compared to other minority religions, but it's something most white Evangelicals absolutely don't have today. It blunts some of the rocket sled into fascism Evangelicals are doing.
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Feb 7, 2020 23:04
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Kirk posted:Trump is going to be treated very favorably by historians. American conservatives are rehabilitating Nixon in real time before our eyes, and their continual assaults on objective reporting will make any attempt at objective history extremely difficult in another 10-20 years. I somehow doubt it. Nixon is still looked at as a crook despite any sort of positives he accomplished in his Presidency. Saint Reagan is looking worse as the years go by as well. Trump will be looked at as a national disgrace. He has accomplished nothing but getting away with crimes as President. His Presidency will be looked at as the GOP desperately clinging to power no matter the cost and both will be judged harshly for it.
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Feb 7, 2020 23:06
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Kirk posted:
I want so badly to disagree with this but it's so obviously and patently true
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Feb 7, 2020 23:07
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Great thread eke out! Cheers and thanks. Hard to manage a combo TVIV/discussion current events thread.
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Feb 7, 2020 23:10
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Djarum posted:I somehow doubt it. Nixon is still looked at as a crook despite any sort of positives he accomplished in his Presidency. Saint Reagan is looking worse as the years go by as well. I really don't see this as being the case. In my observation Nixon is becoming less despised as time goes on. And as much as SA and leftist twitter like to dunk on both Nixon and Reagan, I do not believe that is representative of the country at large. But we're swapping anecdotes here so whatever.
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Feb 7, 2020 23:17
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Christ, Bush II has already been largely rehabilitated in the eyes of liberals.
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Feb 7, 2020 23:18
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Kirk posted:I really don't see this as being the case. In my observation Nixon is becoming less despised as time goes on. And as much as SA and leftist twitter like to dunk on both Nixon and Reagan, I do not believe that is representative of the country at large. Kirk posted:Christ, Bush II has already been largely rehabilitated in the eyes of liberals. both nixon and bush 2 actually smart and new how to play the field afterward. nixon basically wrote tons of books about foreign policy(which he was good at in someways) and basically became the some big brain that other people went to see about stuff. W basically went the carter route and humanitarian poo poo. trump will do neither of those things. its all about historical narratives and trump is too politically stupid/vindictive and personally awful to get a Nixon scrubbing and he wont do humanitarian poo poo like W. he is an easy historical narrative to teach to students about "look at this loving rear end in a top hat idiot who hosed up our soft power and was corrupt fucker and did awful personal poo poo".
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Feb 7, 2020 23:24
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Kirk posted:Trump is going to be treated very favorably by historians. American conservatives are rehabilitating Nixon in real time before our eyes, and their continual assaults on objective reporting will make any attempt at objective history extremely difficult in another 10-20 years.
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Feb 7, 2020 23:27
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Dapper_Swindler posted:both nixon and bush 2 actually smart and new how to play the field afterward. nixon basically wrote tons of books about foreign policy(which he was good at in someways) and basically became the some big brain that other people went to see about stuff. W basically went the carter route and humanitarian poo poo. trump will do neither of those things. its all about historical narratives and trump is too politically stupid/vindictive and personally awful to get a Nixon scrubbing and he wont do humanitarian poo poo like W. he is an easy historical narrative to teach to students about "look at this loving rear end in a top hat idiot who hosed up our soft power and was corrupt fucker and did awful personal poo poo". Well Nixon went on a crusade on trying to rehab his image somewhat in the years immediately after. By the 80s he largely kept mostly out of sight. I think his goal was not to let what he did accomplish be overshadowed by Watergate. I don't think he ultimately succeeded but it seems that many of his foreign policy "triumphs" have ultimately not been great for the United States long term most notably China. W has basically stayed mostly out of sight and out of mind. I believe he has tried some real basic test the waters on being a public figure again in the past few years, mostly because Trump has been such a disaster. W will never be fully forgiven for Iraq and the Florida recount. He also never really accomplished any major things in office either. He will be judged poorly for the foreign policy disasters. Trump will be looked as a stain on America and Western Democracy in general. I have little doubt that the name "Trump" will be used as a derogatory term for decades to come. While his administration has accomplished little in terms of law or policy, the sheer amount of open corruption, destruction of norms as well as long term alliances along with the rampant amount of open racism will be looked at as appalling. Even once he is out of office we will be learning of the crimes and corruption for years to come. I have little doubt that every single member of his administration will be in jail at some point after he is out of office.
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Feb 8, 2020 00:04
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