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Sheeran's claim about the murder of Hoffa is pretty interesting because there was blood found at the house right around the same spot where he said Hoffa was killed, but it was decades old so no DNA could be extracted. I dunno, his story feels very plausible. It's a house only minutes away from where Hoffa was last seen, and in addition to the mystery blood stain that couldn't be tested, there was also a different blood stain that did have testable DNA and it wasn't Hoffa's. So the idea that this house was used multiple times to stage executions and dispose of bodies seems to line up with the evidence.
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Dec 2, 2019 21:16
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 06:02 |
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I think Hoffa throwing shade at Fitz was dig at Trump; "The job's too important to be playing golf all the time" or something like that.
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Dec 2, 2019 21:38
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The only thing I had to get over with the CGI faces was De Niro's blue eyes. A bit overdone but not as bad as Joseph Gordon Levitts in Looper. De Niro's character is also the least interesting to me, like, I can't name a personality trait of his character tbh. This movie owns and I appreciate the 3hr 30min because it has a story to tell cinematically
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Dec 2, 2019 21:42
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Hoffa being a dude who fires up middle class stiffs while putting their pensions to use in support of the mafia and Richard Nixon’s gang of creeps is the Trump dig. Or rather Trump, as well as Biden (who the Mafia-corrupted teamsters helped get his first Senate seat btw), are the new Hoffa’s.
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Dec 2, 2019 21:43
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LesterGroans posted:Man, I keep thinking about Hoffa's death. Pacino is heartbreaking in that last moment. It’s presented in such a sudden, awkward way. The film’s been building to it for hours and then it’s just done.
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Dec 2, 2019 21:45
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porfiria posted:It’s presented in such a sudden, awkward way. The film’s been building to it for hours and then it’s just done. I liked the way De Niro played it. He's hesitant all the way up to the final moment, to the point where he almost makes the mistake of allowing Hoffa to walk back out of the house. When Hoffa says "lets get outta here Frank" and turns to leave, you can see Frank's mind reeling as he tries to make the decision whether or not he's going to let him leave. And he almost waits too long. It's also tragic how Hoffa turns and sees Frank clearly standing there with the gun but even then, he doesn't put 2 and 2 together because he thinks Frank is protecting him.
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Dec 2, 2019 21:49
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As desensitized as I am to movie violence, that little moan Pacino lets out as he's shot really gets to me.
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Dec 2, 2019 22:43
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Basebf555 posted:Sheeran's claim about the murder of Hoffa is pretty interesting because there was blood found at the house right around the same spot where he said Hoffa was killed, but it was decades old so no DNA could be extracted. Hoffa might have been killed in a similar style, but noted drunkard and serial liar Sheeran most certainly didn't do it, or participate in the mafia-ordered execution of JFK, bribe the US attorney general, execute Joey Gallo, supply the CIA with guns, and all the other weird poo poo he claimed (which includes at least three different versions of how Hoffa died, including that the hit was ordered by Nixon and that Sheeran disposed of the body but didn't kill him). He was a crooked teamster official who did some jobs for the mob, knew Hoffa and had the ability to spin a good tale and his family got paid handsomely for it. And honestly I bet you could find blood spatter in just about any house entrance if you rip up the floor boards and go to town, but in any case the blood wasn't Hoffas: https://web.archive.org/web/20160911081531/https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-105402906.html Dante fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Dec 2, 2019 |
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Dec 2, 2019 23:48
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Yeah he's the Irish Richard Kuklinski.
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Dec 3, 2019 00:19
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Watched this in 2 parts on Thanksgiving and it was loving great. For those wondering where intermission is, for me the halfway point was perfect. I liked seeing Pesci play a more reasoned, logical and measured character instead of crazy psycho guy. I like him in general as an actor and was glad to see him again. I was worried early on about Pacino hamming it up and yelling but by the 2nd act he seemed to have wisely toned it down and reminded me again why I like him so much. Just great acting, direction, storytelling and pacing all around that's really hard to find fault with. Agree with others about the de-aging CGI being confusing regarding timelines and that it didn't really quite work. Uncanny valley and all that. A couple of fight scenes/beatings really reminded me of the actor's age and, like someone else said, KNOWING what these actors look(ed) like doesn't help anything. It's distracting and weirdly off putting. I occasionally wondered if Scorcese wouldn't have been better off casting younger, different actors in the roles instead for some of the flashbacks and time jumps but that's my only nitpick. I didn't mind the run time at all and really dug the sad, sentimental approach that Scorcese took...a sort of "all this is meaningless" take on it. It's over. And "how much money is enough?" Hoffa could have walked away and been set for life. Any of them could have. But they don't. Just greed, power and killing. The fish thing confused me a bit. It seemed obvious to me that the driver was lying about the fish and that the whole thing was a set up and worked out ahead of time so that Frank could sit in the back seat but maybe not. Thinking about it, not sure how they had time to work that out if it was staged but it felt that way. I took Pesci's plan to send Frank/not send Frank as both a test of loyalty but also a genuine "I know he's you boy so you need to be involved" thing. Like, "Ok. I know he's your friend but this is GONNA happen, with or without you" deal. He gave Frank a chance to make sure it was clean and quick. I also took it as an attempt at an alibi by using the plane since Russell and Frank could easily prove they were at a hotel/restaurant with their wives and not in Detroit. Did I read that wrong? I thought the "kid" (forgot his name) was in on it the whole time? Guess I should spoiler that. Are we tagging? Astrochicken posted:Nothing I can really add except to say it's kind of brutal that he's got the rest of his days to figure out why Peggy cut him out of her life and you know he won't ever fully let himself understand. It'll just slightly gnaw at him until he keels over. I think he understood perfectly.
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Dec 3, 2019 00:21
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BiggerBoat posted:I think he understood perfectly. Yeah, I think it's his confusion and kind of halfhearted and way-too-late attempt to try to fix that relationship that's so effective. "It's what it is" just isn't a good answer when the question is "why were you a bad, distant father?" Speaking of, Marin Ireland did some great work in that scene where Frank is asking if there's anything he can do to make it up to his daughters. LesterGroans fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Dec 3, 2019 |
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Dec 3, 2019 01:10
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I just wanted to say that the chances of finding blood somewhere in any home that's been lived in seems more likely than not.
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Dec 3, 2019 01:28
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Mokelumne Trekka posted:De Niro's character is also the least interesting to me, like, I can't name a personality trait of his character tbh. I actually find myself reflecting on him more than anyone else. I thought it was interesting how much of the movie is him observing, clearly thinking and trying to process, but finding himself hemmed in by his own (lack of) creativity/the limits of his own mind. He's firmly in a "chronicler" role but I think it really helps make the whole thing feel more tragic that what Frank is best at is observing ideals in others that he lacks & drawing up a shared loyalty with those people.
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Dec 3, 2019 02:23
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What exactly is the deal with the two names of the movie?
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Dec 3, 2019 04:07
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muscles like this! posted:What exactly is the deal with the two names of the movie? It's the title of the book the movie is based upon.
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Dec 3, 2019 04:18
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I mean the Netflix listing and all the reporting about it say The Irishman but when you watch the movie it says the title is I Heard You Paint Houses.
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Dec 3, 2019 04:20
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muscles like this! posted:I mean the Netflix listing and all the reporting about it say The Irishman but when you watch the movie it says the title is I Heard You Paint Houses. I think the feeling is it was Scorsese’s preferred title but not Netflix’s
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Dec 3, 2019 04:23
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It’s pretty clear (and reinforced with the scenes near the end with one of his daughters and the priest) that Frank is a combination of a sociopath and someone so desensitized to violence that he just can’t feel anything. He shows very little emotion overall in the entire film.
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Dec 3, 2019 05:49
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I think the feeling is it was Scorsese’s preferred title but not Netflix’s yeah he clearly said gently caress it you can call it that to get it made and then ran with the original, cooler title.
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Dec 3, 2019 07:06
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BiggerBoat posted:I didn't mind the run time at all and really dug the sad, sentimental approach that Scorcese took...a sort of "all this is meaningless" take on it. It's over. And "how much money is enough?" Hoffa could have walked away and been set for life. Any of them could have. But they don't. Just greed, power and killing. I generally agree with your post, but I don't think the greed, power and killing is their goal. Not for them, at least. I think the whole movie's point is that these men are just doing their job, which is stuck in their brain ever since the war, if only to be able to deal with it all. "I've worked for 44 years!". The grave scene was particularly well done I think; both sides show their version of "I just have to do my job". Be it shooting, or digging. Neither party really understands it, but it's how it is. There's quite a few of these scenes and reasoning, even how they "try to help" Hoffa. They simply can't come to terms with someone not following the rules; You just gotta sit down with him. Holding on to this all his life, eventually just leads to an empty life with nothing to show for. Even at the very end, he still holds on to just "do the job". Don't tell anyone, even there is literally no one left to care. His family is estranged, his "friends" are dead and no one even seems to remember anything that he thought was important. And what actually was important, doesn't want to speak with him anymore. It's fairly bleak, fantasticy acted, but it's also a message I've taken from movies before. This is just what I got out of it when I watched the movie, though. I might be fully missing stuff, as I'm not as aware of Hoffa's history (non-USA).
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Dec 3, 2019 08:48
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I think your analysis is pretty much spot-on. What I found so unsettling is that these decisions (e.g. where 'it is what it is' for someone) and feuds are based on such petty reasons. Vague things like disrespect. Wearing shorts to a meeting. For all the talk of running the mafia or the Teamsters 'like a business' they're doing anything but that.
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Dec 3, 2019 09:50
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My favorite part is early on when Frank's voice over is talking about Russel and how he'll always have your back and then the movie pauses and puts the future obituary text over the two guys he's sitting with as they get up.
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Dec 3, 2019 13:04
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I gotta think that marty doesn't really believe this dude was the mafia Forrest Gump either, but it works for an entertaining movie. Even the painting houses thing was not a term used by any other mafiaso ever, just this one specific dude's book deal. Has a nice ring to it though. I think I also totally missed the way they boosted deniros height and stature to match the real dude..Didn't register once, just like how he was never a defined age to me..just weird or less weird depending on the scene. deniro 5'10, pesci 5'4, sheeran 6'4 I feel like I should have noticed deniro being an entire foot taller then joe pesci and towering over him..but I never got that sense..cheating an actors height half a foot isn't a small difference from pg 2  
zer0spunk fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Dec 3, 2019 |
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Dec 3, 2019 21:20
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I like this explanation the most personally: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/exclusive-new-evidence-emerges-jimmy-hoffa-fate-article-1.2308877
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Dec 3, 2019 21:37
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zer0spunk posted:I gotta think that marty doesn't really believe this dude was the mafia Forrest Gump either, but it works for an entertaining movie. Never mind De Niro, I’m more confused about Pacino’s feet situation there.
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Dec 4, 2019 02:45
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The time between “we have a problem with Hoffa” and solving the problem felt like it was nine hours of the movie. They even made a textual by having cutaways mid conversation about he said to him/he said to him.
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Dec 4, 2019 03:09
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It's weird that a film which is 3 and a half hours long still managed to sort of....gloss over so much. Like him just not being with his wife any more and being with Irene. And the fish bit felt like a Tarantino film. Although I liked it I don't think the anti aging stuff worked for the most part. They look old - their clothes, their mannerisms are just not the ones of a person in their 40s, even a person in their 40s in 1970. It took me out of it a bit. Taear fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Dec 4, 2019 |
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Dec 4, 2019 12:14
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I can't be the only one who sees the thread title and immediately thinks of Rudy Giuliani yelling "WHO DO I TELL ABOUT THE CRIMES?"
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Dec 4, 2019 13:07
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The de-aging tech looked okay to me. It wasn't distracting, anyway. What struck me as distracting were the old man bodies attached to those de-aged heads.
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Dec 4, 2019 15:11
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The faces were really like any CGI heavy film, I kinda just flip that switch in my brain that says "there's fake poo poo in this movie but you're gonna accept it as real" and after a few minutes I barely thought about it outside of one or two specific shots.
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Dec 4, 2019 15:26
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I was extremely confused that they showed the shooting of Joe Colombo without mentioning his name that I rewound to see if i missed it, but no, they literally don’t actually say who they just showed was being shot. I just remembered who it was from my Mafia history reading.
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Dec 4, 2019 16:23
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Having a goofy stand up comic play a mob boss was more distracting than the de-aging.
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Dec 4, 2019 17:53
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Groovelord Neato posted:Having a goofy stand up comic play a mob boss was more distracting than the de-aging. I dunno, Pesci hasn’t done stand up for thirty plus years, I think we all know him as a mob guy now
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Dec 4, 2019 18:38
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Groovelord Neato posted:Having a goofy stand up comic play a mob boss was more distracting than the de-aging. I was actually surprised by how much I liked Maniscalco in that role.
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Dec 4, 2019 19:18
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The blue eyes were infinitely worse than the deaging. DeNiro looks like he has advanced glaucoma in a couple scenes, on top of having like 4 seperate eye colors.
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Dec 4, 2019 19:25
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I dunno, Pesci hasn’t done stand up for thirty plus years, I think we all know him as a mob guy now Why I oughta... Budgie Jumping posted:I was actually surprised by how much I liked Maniscalco in that role. Same.
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Dec 4, 2019 19:57
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Unoriginal Name posted:The blue eyes were infinitely worse than the deaging. DeNiro looks like he has advanced glaucoma in a couple scenes, on top of having like 4 seperate eye colors. I honestly thought he was supposed to have glaucoma in a few of the later scenes, I really didn't even understand that it was just because the real Frank had blue eyes.
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Dec 4, 2019 20:12
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Budgie Jumping posted:I was actually surprised by how much I liked Maniscalco in that role. I agree. I did a double take when I first saw him, but he really was a great fit for the role.
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Dec 4, 2019 20:14
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Unoriginal Name posted:The blue eyes were infinitely worse than the deaging. DeNiro looks like he has advanced glaucoma in a couple scenes, on top of having like 4 seperate eye colors. I tried to un-see it, but much like the awful Rogue One face-mapping, it was the only thing I could see. I bounced off the movie about 90minutes in. Which is a shame, because the rest of the movie (the parts that aren't just DeNiro's face up close) was good. I'd love to see this film made without all this nonsense - has literally anyone ever cared about different actors playing people at a younger age? Does anyone think DeNiro is SO GOOD they couldn't hire a younger actor and just age him up? Or hell, just not structure the film this way? Pacino was also pretty much just "shouty man" as he often is. I didn't mind it too much, of what I saw, except in the office scene where it's painfully obvious he's cracked up between takes. Didn't want to go for another take? Or for the grocery scene? Or for any of the times ~30 year old DeNiro has visibly shaky knees? This film has annoyed me, because I wanted to like it. Maybe I'll do the opposite of Scorsese's wishes and deliberately watch it on a phone so the CGI doesn't completely ruin the experience.
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Dec 4, 2019 21:45
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Depends on how young the story calls for, because I definitely feel like the kids they cast in Once Upon A Time In America bring the whole thing to a screeching halt. I wish Leone had just made a whole movie with De Niro and Woods(obviously the story would've needed a re-write). The Irishman is different though, they could've cast a 25-30 year old actor who is actually talented in their own right, ala Jason Gordon-Levitt in Looper.
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Dec 4, 2019 21:48
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