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there's going to be a lot of changes in the next couple of years. intel and nvidia will need to change their business model since so many companies will be making their own custom risc-v's. seems impossible, but i see arm melting away. what is apple going to do with their ios devices? probably switch to risc-v. computer manufacturers will no longer need to wait for what intel has, and they can handle the security side themselves with their own instruction set parallel to this we'll see more streaming applications. imagine the desktop going away. you drop your thin device onto a cradle that shows "desktop mode" streaming to your monitor, all running off the cloud. no more expensive desktop computer hardware to buy, but subscriptions to streaming services, with their own servers that they can update to their own needs whenever they want with an open risc architecture Good Sphere fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Dec 6, 2019 |
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Dec 6, 2019 18:58
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literally nothing important will ever use risc-v. end thread ----------8<------
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Dec 6, 2019 19:01
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pram i'm marking our words. i see risc-v starting to replace arm stuff by the end of 2022, unless they pull some kind of crazy stunt of doing something similar. aside from cortex, arm has multi-million dollar licensing fees to start. risc-v will have none of that, and engineers will be able to customize them any way they want
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Dec 6, 2019 19:26
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@pram actually risc-v is seeing mass adoption in niche areas western-digital adopted risc-v for their next generation of disk controllers to avoid paying royalties
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Dec 6, 2019 19:55
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Poopernickel posted:@pram actually risc-v is seeing mass adoption in niche areas wow interesting. amazon just adopted arm for their next generation arm processor for aws. really makes you think
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Dec 6, 2019 20:06
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not me
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Dec 6, 2019 20:08
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source your quotes
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Dec 6, 2019 20:13
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risc-v is the late 2010s equivalent of the i960 it'll be around for a couple decades in all sorts of weird applications but the only people who will care are the people building the systems that use it
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Dec 6, 2019 20:16
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apple is seriously going to drop a decade of engineering to adopt the stallman approved processor architecture linux barely runs on. you legit think this. lol
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Dec 6, 2019 20:19
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risc-v will be the mips of the 21st century
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Dec 6, 2019 20:21
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pram posted:apple is seriously going to drop a decade of engineering to adopt the stallman approved processor architecture linux barely runs on. you legit think this. lol i don't see why not. they'll need to invest into the engineering, which will probably be at least a few years. they could keep their ios devices at the same price point, while saving a ton of money
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Dec 6, 2019 20:28
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query: if the worlds richest company cared about license fees, and was starting from scratch anyway since risc-v does not provide any reference designs close to what they need... why wouldnt they just make their own cpu architecture?
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Dec 6, 2019 20:32
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pram posted:query: if the worlds richest company cared about license fees, and was starting from scratch anyway since risc-v does not provide any reference designs close to what they need... why wouldnt they just make their own cpu architecture? too expensive. arm designed had what they needed, but now they can have another risc processor that is even more specifically tailored to their needs. it's not similar to starting from scratch making an entirely new cpu architecture edit: also apple doesn’t have the capability to make their own architecture. they don’t work like this. too specialized Good Sphere fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Dec 6, 2019 |
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Dec 6, 2019 20:45
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2020: the year of risc-v on the desktop
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Dec 6, 2019 20:46
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Good Sphere posted:parallel to this we'll see more streaming applications. imagine the desktop going away. you drop your thin device onto a cradle that shows "desktop mode" streaming to your monitor, all running off the cloud. no more expensive desktop computer hardware to buy, but subscriptions to streaming services, with their own servers that they can update to their own needs whenever they want with an open risc architecture nobody has the bandwidth for this
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Dec 6, 2019 20:54
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I'm the errata.
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Dec 6, 2019 21:00
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Good Sphere posted:too expensive. arm designed had what they needed, but now they can have another risc processor that is even more specifically tailored to their needs. it's not similar to starting from scratch making an entirely new cpu architecture no. apple doesnt license the cpu designs, apple designs their own socs. what benefit does risc-v bring to the table other than a pdf with the ISA
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Dec 6, 2019 21:08
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risc-v business
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Dec 6, 2019 21:19
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to answer your question op, nobody has made one yet
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Dec 6, 2019 21:31
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pram posted:no. apple doesnt license the cpu designs, apple designs their own socs. what benefit does risc-v bring to the table other than a pdf with the ISA ok, you're probably right i looked it up, and the rest of the internet seems to be on board with apple not moving away from arm any time soon
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Dec 6, 2019 22:23
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glad we resolved that. thread can be gassed now
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Dec 6, 2019 22:26
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pram posted:glad we resolved that. thread can be gassed now i still believe it will make a significant impact
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Dec 6, 2019 22:28
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Good Sphere posted:i still believe it will make a significant impact and some people believe the earth is flat
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Dec 6, 2019 22:30
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Dec 6, 2019 22:33
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risc-lxix
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Dec 6, 2019 23:01
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Good Sphere posted:parallel to this we'll see more streaming applications. imagine the desktop going away. you drop your thin device onto a cradle that shows "desktop mode" streaming to your monitor, all running off the cloud. no more expensive desktop computer hardware to buy, but subscriptions to streaming services, with their own servers that they can update to their own needs whenever they want with an open risc architecture what in the gently caress does this have to do with cpu architecture
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Dec 7, 2019 00:08
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The RISC-V (Reduced Instruction Set Computer) processor is a chip that is still in it’s infancy, but it’s a chip that everyone should be supporting. You might be wondering, what makes this chip so great? The RISC-V architecture is great because it is the only processor that has a completely open source instruction set, if you want to learn more check out their website. What’s an open source instruction set? In layman’s terms, it means that the way the processor moves around 1s and 0s is available for everyone to see. The advent of what is probably the worst security bug, Meltdown and Spectre, boiled down to a flaw in the instruction set of Intel’s processors. I don’t think anyone in the security field was completely shocked, after all, a speaker at a BlackHat conference demonstrated that there were unknown instructions in the x86 architecture, and that inevitably means there are hidden bugs, it was only a matter of time before a truly devastating bug was found, in our case it was Spectre and Meltdown. Another benefit of RISC-V is that it enables companies to develop a product that is tailored specifically to their workload, so they start with the RISC-V core and can add whatever it is they specifically need, saving both time and money. These savings can theoretically be passed on to the consumer either through a lower cost, or in the longterm by having a lower energy footprint. However, I believe the biggest benefit of RISC-V is the inherent security and peace of mind it will give to both consumers and businesses alike. The Spectre and Meltdown bugs are huge problems in the security sphere because over 90% of the server market is owned by Intel, which means that nearly every cloud service is running on hardware that allows attackers to read data that they should not be able to access. To make matters worse, early reports indicate that after these bugs are patched, there will be a performance hit of anywhere between 4–30%, depending on the workload. I hope that these devastating new bugs will make everyone rethink how they go about designing hardware, and support products such as RISC-V. I will confess that even if we all switched to RISC-V in the future, it doesn’t mean that all of our security woes will be left in the past, RISC-V is BSD licensed, meaning that a vendor can tailor it to themselves and keep those custom bits of code behind closed doors, and closed doors means that there is most likely a vulnerability waiting to be unearthed. The only way forward is with a future that is open and transparent, technology has become too ingrained in our society to be kept behind closed doors. I’m a firm believer in open source because it’s the only way to achieve the kind of optimistic future that we want. AI that will be responsible for driving cars should be open for everyone to see what it does and how it works, processors that the AI runs on should be the same. As far as I know, RISC-V is the latest open source processor architecture that is currently being used or developed for a variety of products by multiple big name companies. (EDIT: ARM and SPARC are other open source processor designs) For example, Nvidia will be using a RISC-V chip onboard their GPUS and Western Digital is planning to ship a billion RISC-V units in the upcoming year. If you’re a tinkerer or someone who is a fan of small board computers such as Raspberry Pi’s or Arduino’s, SiFive, a company founded by a former student of the man who invented RISC, sells a RISC-V developer board right now. RISC-V is an existing piece of technology with brilliant minds and monolithic companies propelling it forward, I hope that one day consumers and businesses alike will have easy access to this open architecture available on their laptops, phones, and desktops.
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Dec 7, 2019 00:17
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open source products never have security issues
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Dec 7, 2019 00:26
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disappointed this thread isn’t about the LMARV-1
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Dec 7, 2019 00:27
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riscv is designed for the people who are senstive to arm's licensing costs per CPU/IP core i.e. the fractions of a penny/pennies per core. So WD and various minion core users are totally shifting since yeah a penny * # hard drives shipped is a lot but a penny vs the dozens of $ for an application core in the iphone? gently caress that it'd cost more to re-develop the massive library of applications and libraries and compilers and such
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Dec 7, 2019 00:57
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SO DEMANDING posted:what in the gently caress does this have to do with cpu architecture companies that will stream desktop applications can upgrade their systems faster, and more specific to their needs than individual consumers
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Dec 7, 2019 01:56
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Good Sphere posted:companies that will stream desktop applications can upgrade their systems faster, and more specific to their needs than individual consumers you really think cpu architecture is what's holding us back from doing this
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Dec 7, 2019 01:57
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quote:The advent of what is probably the worst security bug, Meltdown and Spectre, boiled down to a flaw in the instruction set of Intel’s processors. I don’t think anyone in the security field was completely shocked, after all, a speaker at a BlackHat conference demonstrated that there were unknown instructions in the x86 architecture, and that inevitably means there are hidden bugs, it was only a matter of time before a truly devastating bug was found, in our case it was Spectre and Meltdown. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaugh
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Dec 7, 2019 02:18
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undocumented instructions? gently caress that’s cool
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Dec 7, 2019 02:49
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If only we knew which stocks to buy now 😂 Seriously though, I think this is all driven by the US move to impose sanctions onto China, and that this growth is predominantly driven by Chinese shift onto more dependable technologies, and in this particular case, in this segment, it happens to be RISC-V. I wonder if the likes of Intel will see its demise, or will they survive by either open sourcing their CISC ISA, or by shifting to RISC-V themselves?
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Dec 7, 2019 02:54
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I think it will go the way of risc-i through risc-iv
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Dec 7, 2019 03:00
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Is there any RISC-V hardware that makes any sense for an end user to buy right now? Even an RPi-like toy computer or a Arduino-like device brucehoult 8d This is asked and answered about once a week. The only board with RPi-like capability right now is the $999 HiFive Unleashed. It performs about like a Pi3 or maybe 3+, depending on what you are doing, except it doesn't have built in video or USB. If you add a $1999 expansion board you get USB and PCI slots (which you can put a normal PC video card in, normally AMD) and other good stuff. Obviously, it's not RPi price.
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Dec 7, 2019 03:21
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"The HFU is capable of running the Debian Linux distribution and Quake II." i wonder if it can run debian hurd
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Dec 7, 2019 03:34
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just use x86-64 forever until we all die
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Dec 7, 2019 03:45
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akadajet posted:"The HFU is capable of running the Debian Linux distribution and Quake II." what else do you need
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