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OwlFancier posted:I don't think, for example, you would win a majority campaigning on reparations, shorter prison sentences, major police reform, self ID, a commitment to closing the wage gap or a proposal to solve the systemic inability of the judicial system to handle cases of sexual assault. Despite all of those things being good and important. It's a list that has nothing to do with actual material conditions of the working class. A lot of it's also really nebulous stuff that doesn't a serious policy proposal out there. This sort of thing is a big part of the reason why leftists lose the working class, they create a bunch of divisive pet projects where even if people aren't against the idea they will disagree on implementation details or priority.
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Dec 26, 2019 03:12
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| # ¿ May 22, 2024 05:37 |
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OwlFancier posted:Uh, buddy I dunno if you know but like, the working class includes a shitload of black people, women, prisoners and would be targets of cops, trans folk, and rape victims... In fact I would suggest all of those groups are disproportionately working class. How does reparations help trans people get hormone therapy? How does police reform help a starving mother feed her children? You just fragment things until there's no hope for solidarity. Your list isn't things that I'm necessarily against, but if you don't even have one item in there about the primary class struggle then you're part of the problem and you should do some searching.
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Dec 26, 2019 03:37
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OwlFancier posted:You appear to be suggesting that action, any action, is all that matters, doesn't matter if it makes any sort of sense or what it achieves, only that you do something. Do you actually read the things that you're responding to? UnknownTarget, would you agree with OwlFancier's summary of your statement?
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Dec 26, 2019 04:02
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Beefeater1980 posted:Ok so there are two wealth gaps: The big issue here is that you've created numbers that are divorced from reality. Most of the wealth of millionaires isn't in food and houses that you can ship off to Nepal, it's ownership in corporations. If a village in Kenya gets their 100 shares of Amazon stock from Bezos, does that actually help them? Is there a market to sell the stock anymore? Do they start taking an active part in the management of the company (and if they do, do they have any ability there)? What about land wealth, how do you transfer that to another continent? A lot of these problems do have solutions and the problem isn't completely intractable but this sort of analysis doesn't really tell you what the next steps are.
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Dec 27, 2019 08:30
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unwantedplatypus posted:You can't look at the current way society is structured and make an argument that it is the natural way humans have and will always organize themselves. We are ultimately limited by the laws of nature. An agricultural mode of production only creates a small surplus, such that the vast majority of people must work as farmers to feed themselves. There are two options, either evenly distribute the surplus, or set aside a group of people who will not work to feed themselves, but instead dedicate their time and energy on some other, specialized task. It does not matter what our "nature" is. If 99 cultures choose the former option, and 1 culture chooses the latter option; and the latter option makes a culture more likely to survive, over time the world will fill with hierarchies as a product of necessity. Do you have an example that bears this out? This mostly sounds like a just-so story than an actual explanation. My understanding is that you see hierarchies come up in any organization that hits the size where everyone can't communicate with each other effectively, not because of organizational specialization.
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Dec 29, 2019 06:58
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Purple Prince posted:In theory at least allocating resources to problems in an objective way, without a central coordinating mind, ought to be the sort of job distributed computing is good at. How do you figure that? The basic problem is similar to the bin-packing problem, which is combinatorial NP-Hard. Throwing an AI at it simplifies it by introducing unknown bias from the person creating the training data set.
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Dec 29, 2019 19:08
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OwlFancier posted:I'm not sure the only options are capitalism or feudalism. I also am not sure that there is a hard distinction between "people allocating labour" and "market forces" given that markets are operated by people, often an increasingly small number of people given the trend towards market domination by larger and larger corporations. Is this something you genuinely don't understand and need explained or are you just being obtuse?
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Dec 29, 2019 19:51
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| # ¿ May 22, 2024 05:37 |
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OwlFancier posted:That would broadly be the point I was making. This is a bit overly reductive. Markets behave differently to command economies, if you're willing to just pretend that they're the same to make a point then you're ignoring a lot of nuance. Oligarchs do have an outsized influence on markets, but they're still much weaker than they are in a command economy. It wasn't the oligarchs pushing Blockbuster out of business.
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Dec 29, 2019 20:07
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