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abigserve
Sep 13, 2009

this is a better avatar than what I had before
Bgp controlled by Linux daemons (quagga is popular) is a fairly standard workflow these days.

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cowboy beepboop
Feb 24, 2001

I thought maybe for RRs but for actually forwarding? what kind of speeds can you get on some normal hardware?

abigserve
Sep 13, 2009

this is a better avatar than what I had before
Yeah rrs peered to actual routers sorry, should have been clearer

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

Bloody posted:

I have a unifi dream machine in my house. it's cool and has lots of options I don't understand. also it has an app

I just got one and it’s nice but I’m on the verge of taking it off dhcp and dns duties

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

why?

Bored Online
May 25, 2009

We don't need Rome telling us what to do.
more like nightmare machine

Qtotonibudinibudet
Nov 7, 2011



Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki
today in kubernetes bullshit: a pod getting repeatedly OOM killed, but with a cryptic "Pod sandbox changed, it will be killed and re-created" error that everything on the internet suggests is Docker dying, which obviously wasn't the case since everything else on the kubelet was fine.

kudos to engineering for not having any sort of continuous or regularly scheduled performance testing. someone removed an "arbitrary" limit that nothing had hit, ever. turns out that, without this limit, the program instead allocates some poo poo based on a system-level setting (that should be set well above the old limit always), and configurations that used to run happily with 128MB of RAM now consume nearly 1GB while doing absolutely nothing. there is, of course, no way to set your own limit below the system-level limit.

cowboy beepboop
Feb 24, 2001

the russians used virtual machines

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


I feel like if you spent loads of figgies on hiring some really good k8s engineers to run it and tell you how to do everything it could be great

doomisland
Oct 5, 2004

k8s is a google troll imo

SpaceAceJase
Nov 8, 2008

and you
have proved
to be...

a real shitty poster,
and a real james

Cocoa Crispies posted:

I just got one and it’s nice but I’m on the verge of taking it off dhcp and dns duties

Why?

Qtotonibudinibudet
Nov 7, 2011



Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki
someday i will figure out why the gently caress my pfsense box does SLAAC RAs with ABSURDLY short lifetimes, to the point that my laptop will routinely just lose ipv6 connectivity for a few seconds on the reg since it needs to check again every 60s.

long long ago i tried to look into this and couldn't find where they'd modified radvd and gave up. i am p lazy wrt to home networking.

abigserve
Sep 13, 2009

this is a better avatar than what I had before

pointsofdata posted:

I feel like if you spent loads of figgies on hiring some really good k8s engineers to run it and tell you how to do everything it could be great

The problem, as I see it, with k8s, is that it's a total uplift of how apps are developed AND it's a total uplift of how apps are delivered.

Especially in the enterprise space, shitloads of stuff runs as black boxes (ovas), standalone installers in the case of windows environments or are static pages.

It's hard to demonstrate value when it's like "you could move this! oh...you can't. Alright, well what about this? Oh, you can't move that either. hrm."

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

want to have a vpn to work running on the espressobin, and be able to say everything at *.work.com gets queried through their dns; I can do that with dnsmasq, but not ubiquiti

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

graph
Nov 22, 2006

aaag peanuts
im a vm/vdi wrangler

Silver Alicorn
Mar 30, 2008

𝓪 𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓹𝓪𝓷𝓭𝓪 𝓲𝓼 𝓪 𝓬𝓾𝓻𝓲𝓸𝓾𝓼 𝓼𝓸𝓻𝓽 𝓸𝓯 𝓬𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓽𝓾𝓻𝓮
I’m a computer janitor.

theadder
Dec 30, 2011


im not op

Share Bear
Apr 27, 2004

its not just kubernetes as a name, it seems like they named everything in common parlance for infrastructure in a way to try to get people to use the google names

ms and amazon too, where aws is 1st best at this and kubernetes is a close 2nd
i hate it, ingress my assss

abigserve
Sep 13, 2009

this is a better avatar than what I had before
I think everyone is trying to avoid the vmware trap where every single person confuses hosts and guests, even those who spend a lot of time with vmware, because if you're talking about a server in literally any other context it is totally normal to call it a "host"

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

abigserve posted:

The problem, as I see it, with k8s, is that it's a total uplift of how apps are developed AND it's a total uplift of how apps are delivered.

at scale you need to look at uplift of network too, google runs all their k8s stuff on CLOS network don’t they?

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

abigserve posted:

I think everyone is trying to avoid the vmware trap where every single person confuses hosts and guests, even those who spend a lot of time with vmware, because if you're talking about a server in literally any other context it is totally normal to call it a "host"

this doesn't confuse me op

abigserve
Sep 13, 2009

this is a better avatar than what I had before

Captain Foo posted:

this doesn't confuse me op

You never had the "looks like the host is down. No, yeah I mean the vm. The guest. " Conversation?

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

some days we're the hosters, other days we're the hostees

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011



graph posted:

im a vm/vdi wrangler

same. we have like, one service that runs in a bunch of docker and it's absolute trash and needs to be rebuilt regularly. I don't think anyone even uses it other than the former devops guy who is now the pre-sales manager (and thus no longer doing neither dev nor ops)

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

abigserve posted:

You never had the "looks like the host is down. No, yeah I mean the vm. The guest. " Conversation?

no

Start a technical conversation by defining your terms or use machine names

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

by VideoGames

(and can't post for 10 years!)

Share Bear posted:

its not just kubernetes as a name, it seems like they named everything in common parlance for infrastructure in a way to try to get people to use the google names

ms and amazon too, where aws is 1st best at this and kubernetes is a close 2nd
i hate it, ingress my assss

get back in your pod

Bored Online
May 25, 2009

We don't need Rome telling us what to do.
everyday i come into the office and vagrant up and down all day in a lazy attempt to look busy

Vomik
Jul 29, 2003

This post is dedicated to the brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan
you can just be a vagrant in the parking lot to save you a bit of time

abigserve
Sep 13, 2009

this is a better avatar than what I had before

Trimson Grondag 3 posted:

at scale you need to look at uplift of network too, google runs all their k8s stuff on CLOS network don’t they?

Contemporary DC network design relies on CLOS style ToR solutions, because all the vendors have abandoned huge DC chassis solutions and whitebox (commodity) switches are cheap.

K8s actually works very well in these designs, as the network is generally layer 3 to the edge and containers are very good at breaking the "layer 2" mindset that makes these designs...difficult, in real environments.

Problem is, unless you're a startup, you will likely be supporting a large amount of traditional systems as well, which makes the DC far more complicated than it used to be. DC network design aint easy these days, it used to be far simpler, where you'd whack a giant VSS pair of switches in the core and then some copper stuff for ilom and be gucci. You want layer 2? here it is! you want layer 3? here it is!!

Qtotonibudinibudet
Nov 7, 2011



Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki
i am continuously astounded by how many people work in this field without the slightest understanding of how it works and why.

:haw: hey why are the paths in our URLs case-sensitive?
:eng101: well, most filesystems have case-sensitive paths, and URL paths often map to filesystem paths. it'd be pretty hard to support those if the URL path were case-insensitive. here's the relevant bit of RFC 3986 where it's codified.
:haw: yes, but why did WE choose to have case-sensitive URLs?
:eng101: we didn't. the IETF chose it for everyone.
:haw: that's a bad answer.

okay man, you do you.

it's like we still have quacks in the era of science-based medicine or astrologers after centuries of actual astrophysics.

not to say that we *don't*, but they're relegated to pushing supplements that don't do anything and writing advice columns, whereas ours are still charged with performing the work of someone qualified.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.

akadajet posted:

It's a bunch of windows services and asp.net sites tied to a big ol' self-hosted sql server instance. Maybe you could host it in Windows containers, but I was under the impression that k8s is really a linux game.

lmao why the gently caress would you do that on k8s. it's not magic that automatically makes ur app scalable

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.

CMYK BLYAT! posted:

windows software is perhaps a bit more of a special case, but for us, kubernetes manages to surface a lot of unfortunate shortcuts that didn't cause issues on dedicated VMs. these are probably all more just generic issues with adopting to containerized deployments, but k8s has made those more accessible:

* worker process count is determined based on core count by default. this doesn't work very well if you run on a beefy kubelet with many cores, but only allocate 2-4 CPU to the pod, since the "how many cores?" the program sees is the underlying host's core count. doubly so since these workers all allocate a baseline amount of RAM
* things that assume static IPs are poo poo in general in modern infrastructure, and kubernetes' pod lifecycle model demonstrates this quite well
* we have some temporary directories that default to a directory that also holds some static files. kubernetes makes it easy to do read-only root FS for security purposes, and while we have a setting to move the temporary files elsewhere, it turns out we hardcoded the default location loving everywhere

the largest issue, honestly, is that kubernetes operational experience is in fairly short supply, and there are a lot of people being dragged kicking and screaming into working with it because their higher-ups wanted to implement it (not without good reason, mind you, but in typical modern american corporate fashion, they want to do so without training anyone under arbitrary, too-short timelines). as vendor support for poo poo that runs in and heavily integrates with kubernetes, more than half my time ends up being spent on explaining poo poo that's covered in the kubernetes documentation and reminding people that "kubectl logs" and "kubectl describe" will explain the cause of most of their issues.

fix your app server/java version/whatever to be container-aware and the core/memory poo poo will go away

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.

Bloody posted:

I have a unifi dream machine in my house. it's cool and has lots of options I don't understand. also it has an app

should i get one op

Qtotonibudinibudet
Nov 7, 2011



Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki

Malcolm XML posted:

fix your app server/java version/whatever to be container-aware and the core/memory poo poo will go away

have you ever tried to get nginx to accept a patch. it's not fun.

we know the cgroup-based worker count inference is out there, it's just :effort:, so it's just cast into documentation in the hopes that someone reads it.

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

Malcolm XML posted:

should i get one op

if you need a new router and WiFi AP, it’s both of those, can route at 1gbps, and I don’t hate the UI

I decided to not jiggle the dns and dhcp around

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine
I'm thinking of geting a Dream Machine too*, but I only just got DHCP failover between my PiHoles mostly working (and I'm literally never going off PiHole for my DNSes) so hearing this:

Cocoa Crispies posted:

I just got one and it’s nice but I’m on the verge of taking it off dhcp and dns duties

Re-enforces my belief that I didn't waste my time.

ROM HOWARD VOICE: He had wasted his time.

*: Maybe the Dream Machine Pro and an el cheapo AP AC LITE? Depends when it moves from EA to GA and what the reviews look like? :shrug:

Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Dec 24, 2019

Vomik
Jul 29, 2003

This post is dedicated to the brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan
tbh not using dhcp is gwm. you should buy not lease

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug
i haven’t seen anything about a pro or a scrub adjective on the dream machine

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Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine

Cocoa Crispies posted:

i haven’t seen anything about a pro or a scrub adjective on the dream machine

The UDM Pro is similar to the UDM but it's rack-mount, it doesn't have wireless but it's got a 10GbE SFP+, 8 port switch rather than 4, same cloud key and routing poo poo, it also has a 'lil babby touchscreen :3:. It's currently in Early Access: https://ubntwiki.com/products/unifi/unifi_dream_machine_pro

I just figure I'll be most likely to want to upgrade wireless from AC at some point in the next few years so an all-in-one that includes wireless might be a bad route (also I could someday want 10GbE to a NAS or something, IDK)?

Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Dec 24, 2019

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