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The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."
Well, it wouldn’t be Christmas without it!

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LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

Just watched A Christmas Carol.

I think I've figured it out: Thirteen is the Doctor I want to be. Eleven is the Doctor I want to show up to take me away.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

can't wait for this year's christmas special!

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen
𝅘𝅥𝅮

Dabir posted:

can't wait for this year's christmas special!

https://soundcloud.com/user-129145744/the-night-she-abandoned-us

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MEC8VDOalI

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

“What’s the point in being grown up if you can’t be childish sometimes?”

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!
Vengeance on Varos: ok. It would be a lot better without an episode's worth (old money) of the Doctor and Peri faffing around on the TARDIS. There's absolutely no reason for any of it. There's also very little vengeance happening.

So far the randomizer (to protect us from the Black Guardian) has given us:

The Mark of the Rani
The Ice Warriors
Underworld
The Monster of Peladon
Vengeance on Varos

and, most recently... The Dominators, a story so bad it killed Patrick Troughton. The universe, Ice Warriors aside, hates us.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

The_Doctor posted:

“What’s the point in being grown up if you can’t be childish sometimes?”

"Our destiny is in the stars, so let's go and search for it..."
"People spend all their time making nice things, and then other people come along and break them."
"While there's life, there's hope."
"They always want you to go alone when you're walking into a trap, have you noticed that?"
"An apple away keeps the... ah, never mind."
"What's the use of a good quotation if you can't change it?"
"Exotic alien swords are easy to come by... Aces are rare."
"These shoes fit perfectly!"

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

MrL_JaKiri posted:

So far the randomizer (to protect us from the Black Guardian) has given us:

The Doctor putting a randomizer on the console only for it to "randomly" take him straight to Skaro always felt like the TARDIS was playing a practical joke on him :laugh:

Zaroff
Nov 10, 2009

Nothing in the world can stop me now!

Jerusalem posted:

The Doctor putting a randomizer on the console only for it to "randomly" take him straight to Skaro always felt like the TARDIS was playing a practical joke on him :laugh:

And then after that they go straight to Earth!

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017

Zaroff posted:

And then after that they go straight to Earth!

Or an alien planet that looks suspiciously like a rock quarry on earth

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Reminder that the new episode airs in 26 hours thank God oh Jesus thank you God.

Edit: Wait no I did the math wrong and it's 38 hours? gently caress you, Satan t:mad:t

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen
𝅘𝅥𝅮

Jerusalem posted:

Reminder that the new episode airs in 26 hours thank God oh Jesus thank you God.

Edit: Wait no I did the math wrong and it's 38 hours? gently caress you, Satan t:mad:t

HRH the Queen is not going to get up at 6 in the morning to watch Doctor Who.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

The Queen is setting up a dark final season villain twist for The Crown season 6 :aaa:

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Dec 31, 2019

Box of Bunnies
Apr 3, 2012

by Pragmatica

Edward Mass posted:

HRH the Queen is not going to get up at 6 in the morning to watch Doctor Who.

lol if you think Liz waits to watch it at broadcast like the licence fee paying proles

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


Jerusalem posted:

The Queen is setting up a dark final season villain twist for The Crown season 6 :aaa:

I just started watching and maaaan I did NOT like who Matt Smith regenerated into!

Can close my eyes and Olivia Coleman sounds exactly like Claire Foy tho.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Tobias Menzies really grew on me, especially the Moon Landing episode, but yeah I missed Matt Smith too.

I miss Matt Smith every day, though.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.
I should probably get around to actually watching last year’s finale before the new episode airs.

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen
𝅘𝅥𝅮

Big Mean Jerk posted:

I should probably get around to actually watching last year’s finale before the new episode airs.

The Battle of Who Could Care Less, or Resolution?

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.

Edward Mass posted:

The Battle of Who Could Care Less, or Resolution?

The Battle of Too Many Names. I set out to watch it right after it aired but then I saw all the mediocre reviews here and lost nearly all interest.

I love Jodie as The Doctor but man last season had some really dull episodes. I doubt it’ll happen but I hope the new season takes a slightly less grounded approach and just goes nuts with the episode premises.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

More episodes like It Takes You Away please, I loving loved that episode.

docbeard
Jul 19, 2011

Jerusalem posted:

More episodes like It Takes You Away please, I loving loved that episode.

If we get more of It Takes You Away and Demons of the Punjab (and more for Yaz to do) I will be content.

I'd actually be at home for more just straightforward silliness like the one on the spaceship being eaten by Feral Stitch whose name I've forgotten, too.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



It's been awhile since I listened to any Big Finish audios. Not because I got bored of them or anything, I just really didn't have the time to commit to long listens, especially once my commute changed. But with a bit of spare time on my hand, I caught up on the latest in my listen through the monthly range of classic Doctor Who. Luckily, the latest was a trilogy of stories featuring the 5th Doctor and Nyssa, all set in the town of Stockbridge, familiar from audio Circular Time as well as a graphic novel collection of Doctor Who comics. This afforded me the chance to - if not catch up - at least make some progress on my backlog of audios. As for the stories themselves? Well one is good, another comes tantalizingly close to being an all-time classic but falls at the last hurdle, and the other is just sadly... not very good.

Castle of Fear
This one is played for comedy and works the better for it. When the Doctor brings Nyssa to 19th Century Stockbridge to watch a Mummer's farce, they're alarmed by the presence of a character clearly modeled after the Doctor. They're further alarmed by one of the actors seemingly becoming possessed by a 12th Century peasant who recognizes Nyssa. Traveling back to 1199, they find Hubert, Earl of Mummerset has returned from the Crusades to reclaim his ancestral castle, only to find it occupied by ghosts. Offering acres of land as a prize for its recapture, Hubert is also branding as "Kowards" all those who chicken out after offering to make the attempt.

The story clearly and unapologetically apes the style of Monty Python. It isn't anywhere near as clever or subversive as that, but it is funny. Full of false identities, unraveling lies, misunderstandings and a variety of coincidences, it's the type of story where the protagonists get pulled along by the current of events with every attempt to change course just making things worse. Hubert isn't what he seems but neither is Roland of Brittany and neither is Yavuz the Turkish Knight, and the Doctor and Nyssa lie about who they are too, and the thing occupying the castle is a being of pure deception. The Doctor's knowledge of future events proves his undoing, as the presence of a Rutan makes him assume it has come in pursuit of the Sontaran Jingo Linx from 3rd Doctor story The Time Warrior only to learn that was a complete coincidence... but now it knows and wants to do something about it! Everything falls apart until Nyssa comes to the reasonable conclusion that she can lie too, and just makes up a bunch of bullshit and it turns out the alien antagonist is as gullible and easily manipulated as the 12th Century peasants.

Returning to the 19th Century after leaving things reasonably resolved, the Doctor and Nyssa discover that the implications of their solution have resonated through the centuries and reached a critical mass. The Doctor attempts to reverse a dangerous mix of Time Lord and alien technology but ironically runs out of time, and the story ends on a hell of a cliffhanger as the Doctor and Nyssa are seemingly blown into smithereens.

The Eternal Summer
The Doctor wakes in the sleepy town of Stockbridge where he is warmly greeted by the proprietors of his Bed and Breakfast, who assure him that he's been staying there for "as long as we can remember". Searching for Nyssa, he finds her working at the post office, where she's equally confused by people who insist she's worked there "as long as they can remember". Trying to figure out what is going on, they notice bizarre things happening: time seems to be skipping, a fire in a school becomes a funeral for the victim becomes the funeral for the parent of the victim decades later... but all happening in the same five minute window on the same day, always in summer. The day itself seems to be moving faster than it should, going quickly from morning to afternoon to night. When they ask the seemingly unaware townspeople for the date or other identifying information they get multiple answers all at once... from the same person.

This story is ALMOST a classic. The setup is intriguing, and things only get more so as things go along. The Doctor finds a police box (not the TARDIS) and makes a phone-call... to himself. Which he then answers when the phone rings shortly after and he finds himself on the other side of the conversation. When a familiar (from the comics) character called Maxwell Edison arrives things just get more confusing for them, as he shows them that it is impossible to leave the town: get far enough away from the town and you'll find yourself walking back into it. Plus there are ghostly figures in Hazmat suits who sometimes appear on the edges of the forest. When Max takes them to see them, Nyssa disappears, and the Doctor makes a horrifying discovery as he is brought to meet the Lord and Lady of the Manor who rule over the town... and it's ancient, decrepit versions of the Doctor and Nyssa at the far end of the loop the Doctor is only just at the beginning of.

Here is where the show reaches its apex... and then falls flat on its face. After the shock and horror of the reveal, the discovery that the "bubble" keeping Stockbridge in a state of temporal flux is failing, the monstrousness of how the citizens maintain their sanity, the further monstrousness of how the Lord and Lady live so long (they greedily devour the emotional trauma of "immortal" townsfolk whose minds can no longer tolerate their environment)... well, writer Jonathan Morris unfortunately flubs it. An out of nowhere 11th hour reveal that the Lord and Lady are in fact servants of "Viridios", some manifestation of a local legend given life by the temporal explosion that brought them to Stockbridge is baffling in how it both overcomplicates the situation as well as punctures the weight of the earlier reveal. While the story remains very good as the temporal flux increases to the point where every single moment of the last 50 years is constantly happening simultaneously, it never recaptures those heights. Instead things are resolved in a tidy if somewhat unsatisfying way, as the Doctor and Nyssa manage to save Stockbridge from its Eternal Summer, but the exciting life Maxwell Edison almost achieved is wiped out in the same action as the events that caused them to happen now... never did.

Plague of the Daleks
This story... isn't very good. I like Daleks as much as the next person (so long as the next person isn't Nick Briggs) but tying them into this trilogy of Stockbridge stories doesn't really make any sense and their presence adds nothing of any real value. Better would have been returning the first story's alien to the scene, but then I guess you couldn't put "Dalek" in the title and presumably get a little bump in the sales figures.

The Doctor and Nyssa find themselves hauled through time once again and end up in Stockbridge. Again. In the far future when most of Earth was abandoned due to solar flares, Stockbridge remains. Now turned into a historic site of interest peopled by nth generation clones of the townsfolk from earlier stories, even this tenuous links to the previous stories quickly gets abandoned when they're turned into "zombies" by a nano-virus in the rain. From that point on, the setting is merely window-dressing, as the Doctor and Nyssa are separated and attempt with their tour guides to resolve the situation. In the process, we're treated to one of the sadly all-too-familiar redundant cliffhangers too often seen in Doctor Who, as one of the episodes ends with the shock reveal of a... GASP! A DALEK! In a story with "Dalek" in the title.

Yes, a small squad of Daleks have based themselves in suspended animation deep beneath Stockbridge after finding the TARDIS there and deciding to lay an ambush for when the Doctor returned. They were there far, far longer than they expected, but now he's arrived they attempt to use their nano-virus to take control and turn him into a Robo-Man. That goes about as well as you might expect despite a weak attempt at a shock twist where he becomes their puppet. The Daleks aren't very impressive in this episode, in fact they're kind of pathetic, living in a cave and falling apart as the Doctor almost effortlessly tears their base down around them. The zombies largely don't do anything, the other supporting characters are killed in a peculiarly nasty way that doesn't really have any impact, and it ends up yet another 5th Doctor story were everybody dies and the Doctor and his companion walk away with a trail of corpses behind them.

Final Thoughts:

The Stockbridge Trilogy is a neat idea that starts strong, gets better, has a bit of a stumble and then goes off a cliff. The final story isn't really THAT bad, but it also doesn't feel like it has any real part in the actual trilogy itself which is kind of a big deal when it's the concluding story in a three-parter. Listening to the behind the scenes stuff, I did get the sense that writer Mark Morris was a square peg in a round hole. He wanted to write a particular kind of story and got saddled with a bunch of baggage to meet different demands. The first story is the most fun, but the second story really could have been an incredible piece if it didn't feel like somebody somewhere hadn't lost their nerve and tried to pull back from the interesting angle of the Doctor having to combat an ancient, evil version of himself who knew exactly how he thought and perhaps even what he was going to do because he may have been the one who originally did it, if you believe that it was a loop and not say a Rutan imprinted with the Doctor's personality but quickly driven insane. Peter Davison and Sarah Sutton share their usual strong chemistry at least, and Nyssa gets far more development in these audios than she ever got during the show. The trilogy is well worth a listen, but man... what could have been.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Dec 31, 2019

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013

You're right that Eternal Summer's final reveals are for crap, but you're wrong that they're not foreshadowed. Only the foreshadowing happens in one of the first two parts of The Castle Of Fear, and it's so quick that it's honestly baffling as to why they bothered.

Mark Morris has never written a good Who story. This one is probably his best, unfortunately.

Oh, and I actually really like Castle Of Fear, probably prefer it to Eternal Summer. It's a lot of dumb fun.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

I really enjoy Castle of Fear too, you can tell everybody is having a really good time and it is infectious. Eternal Summer is just such a great concept that it pains me to see how close they came to something special before just kind of falling off to the wayside.

Class3KillStorm
Feb 17, 2011



Astroman posted:

I just started watching and maaaan I did NOT like who Matt Smith regenerated into!

Peter Capaldi was great you scrub :mad:

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017

I still miss the fluffy hair and attack eyebrows

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


docbeard posted:

If we get more of It Takes You Away and Demons of the Punjab (and more for Yaz to do) I will be content.

I'd actually be at home for more just straightforward silliness like the one on the spaceship being eaten by Feral Stitch whose name I've forgotten, too.

I've decided that I'm happy if a season takes lots of risks and we end up with two good ones (like those) and a few more where I can say "well they tried" (like Rosa or Kerblam!). I'd sit through ten Battle of Too Many Names just to get to see one Heaven Sent. I could go for something really weird this time, though. My attitude to pretty much all art now is "if it can't be good, it can at least be weird."

poo poo - reviewing the list of episodes I almost entirely forgot about The Witchfinders, which was a solid B+. And I just realized that my bottom 50% of that season are the 5 episodes that Chibnall did by himself.

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017

Once Chibnall stopped writing, the episodes were really good - outliers being The Woman Who Fell To Earth and Resolution, imo

Voting Floater
May 19, 2019

My main hope is that Jodie gets her own equivalent of Heaven Sent, Midnight or Dalek. Something to really sink her teeth into and show how good an actor she is. While she did a respectable job last series, it's a shame she didn't get to absolutely smash it and silence the critics.

CommonShore posted:

I could go for something really weird this time, though. My attitude to pretty much all art now is "if it can't be good, it can at least be weird."

I'd also vote for this. I'll take weird over boring any day.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009

Voting Floater posted:


I'd also vote for this. I'll take weird over boring any day.

I will third this. Also, in a completely unrelated note, I just saw The Rise Of Skywalker.

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.
https://twitter.com/syfywire/status/1212079965442846722?s=21

Doctor Who said trans rights.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.
I still can’t believe the revival’s 15th anniversary is this year.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

Big Mean Jerk posted:

I still can’t believe the revival’s 15th anniversary is this year.

We got old.

I still remember how excited I was when I watched Rose and how heartbroken I was when Nine regenerated.

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017

You never forget your first Doctor, and that was Nine for me

Namely on account of my first Doctor Who experience being the 50th Anniversary and I was so lost and confused to the point I literally couldn't tell Ten and Eleven apart when they were in the same room

So I went back to the start of the revival and was even more confused when Nine opened the door and introduced himself

It was a fun introduction to the series

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Oh thank you Jesus finally a new episode.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.

Vinylshadow posted:

You never forget your first Doctor, and that was Nine for me

Namely on account of my first Doctor Who experience being the 50th Anniversary and I was so lost and confused to the point I literally couldn't tell Ten and Eleven apart when they were in the same room

So I went back to the start of the revival and was even more confused when Nine opened the door and introduced himself

It was a fun introduction to the series

I rented the Nine season from Netflix back when they still mailed stuff and then a month later I went to London and bought all of Ten’s first season on cheapo DVDs since it hadn’t been released in the US yet and watched them on the flight home.

I was not a Ten fan when I landed. :argh:

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006

lol the Moffat Gatiss dracula thing is on at 9


I really love the visuals in the current opening credits

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Wait... Part 1?

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SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007

Oh no!😱

These are the least intimidating men in black of all time.

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