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So I'm poking my head in as the series nears its end- how has it been? I've largely fallen off the Who wagon due to a combination of Moffat and the hiatus killing the momentum for me. Series 11 was largely good but there were some episodes I had serious problems with. How's 12 been?
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Feb 23, 2020 22:33
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| # ¿ May 17, 2024 01:50 |
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What is with the Master and Cybermen How do they keep getting tangled up
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Feb 24, 2020 06:24
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Jerusalem posted:If that's the Master's big reveal and the Doctor goes,"....uhh... yeah, I know...." and then it turns out the Master is like pre-Jacobi or something and he's just shown up to some after-echo of the Time War and made some crazy loving assumptions I'd laugh my rear end off. "Boy, are you going to have fun with drums later in life."
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Feb 24, 2020 17:46
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I'll also point out, Regeneration has always and will always be presented as the Death of Self. That person is dead now and some one else has taken their place. This has been a thing since it was introduced and has been explored and expanded on time and time again. Some are able to pass on easier than others, some are happy to do it, but it's always a death. Nine did it happily because he was a guilt ridden wreck. Ten didn't want to go because he was a narcissist and was relatively young. Eleven lived a billion fuckety years and was fine with moving on, especially because it meant that he COULD move on which meant he had new regenerations. It's the whole reason why killing the Doctor has stakes and is important. It's not that the Doctor will die, the character never will. We know that. It's THAT PERSON will die. Each Doctor carries some of the spirit of all the Doctors before them, but if she was killed this next episode it'd be sad because SHE'S gone. the Doctor killing some one as a distraction is lovely, especially when that person has been nothing but nice and friendly to them. And not lovely in a way that makes sense. Clara grates because she dominated the show in a way that smacks of bad writing, my companion is the bestest ever, but she wasn't even that most of the time. There was a good period where she WAS just a normal companion and that was good, but who and what Clara is shifted like the winds and was never consistent from season to season. It says nothing about the actress and everything about the writing. Amy and Rory also wore on but they were at least consistent about who their characters were from start to finish. And they didn't get to cap off their story by becoming quasi immortals with their own TARDIS. The IDEA could be good, but how it was done was not for me. Maybe it worked for you, but it fell flat on its rear end for me.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:36
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And if any single regeneration didn't act like a completely different person, including the one we're talking about specifically, and there weren't years and years backing up how Time Lords view regeneration as death- see the Second Doctor all but calling it a death sentence- you would have a point. However, that is not the case. Regeneration is the Death of Personality- those personalities still exist in them, but they are not the same. This is why the Doctor can be a clown, a suave spy, a schemer, an incompetent dad, Tom Baker, a pacifist and a warrior. They're all the same being, but they are all different people that make up the same whole. And Eleven was at peace with his literal actual death before he found out he was going to regenerate. That might color his final speech just a touch, don't you think?
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Feb 24, 2020 22:49
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And that is one single speech VS every single regeneration we've ever been shown. Except Handy I guess. It's literally only relevant so that you can point to it as your one bit of evidence, when the entire rest of the show presents it otherwise. And if you read into what he's actually saying, you see the truth of the matter even there. The change is that who they are is gone and a new person is taking their place. You can call it death or whatever, but that person is gone and unless something weird happens with the universe, they are not coming back. Not how they were. This is shown with the person who regenerated, who regarded her previous regeneration with derision. As if it wasn't her. Eleven having his own nice philosophy does not change that the Doctor murdered someone for a momentary distraction and that's a lovely thing for the character to do.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:57
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Clara's relationship with the Doctor, just like her own character and seemingly profession, changed as the winds blew. That's a big reason it's hard to say they had a toxic relationship. Because generally speaking, their relationship was mutually very beneficial or overwhelmingly positive- except for when it wasn't. The biggest thing that they could have used to exemplify how bad they are together, Danny and what happened with him, is basically ignored for the entire following season.
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Feb 26, 2020 17:45
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Rhyno posted:Probably because Danny was terrible and nobody liked him. We found a use for Adric, we could have found a use for Danny too Amusingly the Cybermen took care of both
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Feb 26, 2020 18:12
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Ah, so these are my replacements. A dandy and a clown!
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Feb 28, 2020 01:17
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Here we go
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Mar 1, 2020 20:24
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And so Doctor Who eats itself like a hungry snake
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Mar 1, 2020 20:39
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Jerusalem posted:I'm getting mad about Doctor Who online, what have I become At this point, it's not you It's the show
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Mar 1, 2020 21:10
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Here's the thing with Doctor Who. It's almost never, almost, the actor's fault. Generally speaking, there has never been a case where acting has harmed Doctor Who. You can't look at Colin Baker's performance and say that's what's wrong with the Twin Dilemma. The actors get very, very little say over what they do and what they're allowed to do. And this isn't something you can blame on the writer, either. For Doctor Who, these problems fall on the Show Runner. Always have with new Who, always will. The Show Runners are who have final say over scripts, they're the ones who decide what is appropriate for Who and what is not. This is why I would say RTD was a better show runner than Moffat, for an example. Sure, RTD had some amazing lows, but most of his faults and flubs are funny. Moffat is just depressing because you know he could do better, but he was so often not interested in doing that. This? This is not a story the show wanted, needed, or should have. It's a story Chibnall wanted. The only thing that can come of this that would benefit the show going forward is for this entire episode to be ignored and buried, just like previous mistakes. Because that is what this is. The Looms was something terrible that could have been, but never were. The Doctor's father and the Master being his brother was something awful that could have been, but never was. This IS terrible, and if future writers have any common sense, it will be undone. But in the here and now? This is inexcusable. It's a slap in the face of Hartnell, of the show runners of the past, of the fandom as a whole and the future of the show itself. CyberLords are whatever, dumb goofy bullshit. Making the Doctor be the most important thing ever and giving them such a shoehorned tragic, mysterious past and also not having it impact her at all No. It doesn't work. It's not good. It speaks volumes about Chibnall that this is what he wants to do and it makes me worried about the future of the show going forward. It also destroys continuity in ways Moffat never dreamed of which is amazing, since he had Clara meet the Doctor as a child in the barn
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Mar 2, 2020 00:49
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Or Hell, Rassilon I'll never understand why New Who took Rassilon, this near mythical, Godlike figure of ambiguity and omnipotence, and made him just a generic bad guy. That's a problem from RTD, where he at least had a good actor who didn't get to do poo poo, and Moffat compounded it. It would have been so easy to just say that was some random Time Lord who took the name Rassilon But no instead he gets to be an angry man who yells at clouds
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Mar 2, 2020 01:23
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Mokinokaro posted:I still want to know how the Master somehow took on all of the Time Lords and won. That feels like a huge plothole. You know Off screen
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Mar 2, 2020 03:56
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Mameluke posted:So that old woman Rassilon had captive in the End Of Time, she did a lot of medical experiments on the Doctor? this did not get the love it deserved
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Mar 2, 2020 23:28
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Rhyno posted:The Force Awakens is really terrible though. I was going to say, could we swap RTD and Moffat
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Mar 3, 2020 22:35
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Hissy erasure is the worst trait of Who fans
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Mar 3, 2020 22:58
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the lack of momentum between series is the biggest problem by far to me. As a reminder, series 11 finished airing in 2018 and the only reason it can claim to have finished in 2019 is because that's when the New Years Special came out. Otherwise it ended in 2018 in every other way. Series 12 didn't start until 2020. Not a full two years later, but even if you took the new years special as the end point for series 11, over a year after. That's devastating for a show like Who. So much of Doctor Who can be ignored and more easily smoothed over because you have the usual few months wait time between series. The longer the wait, the less momentum you have and the more the problems fester. For me, waiting over a year? I just lost interest. Most of series 11 was fine though some of the episodes could jump off a bridge, but none of it was good enough to keep me excited for all that time. Trying to tell a continuing story, with less episodes over all to boot, with that much space between seasons is terrible. If the wait was longer and they started fresh every time, maybe it'd be more understandable. This is just Bleh
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Mar 3, 2020 23:34
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Bicyclops posted:Hey, Doctor Who thread it's been... what, about a year? Super excited to get back into discussing episodes as the air in real time, looking forwa- Ahahaha you think it's going to be that soon
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Mar 6, 2020 07:25
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At least there isn't any rape in the expanded Who universe! *glowers at the 90s*
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Mar 6, 2020 19:06
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Were we not talking about Torchwood?
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Mar 7, 2020 00:42
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| # ¿ May 17, 2024 01:50 |
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Ernest would have been an excellent American Doctor so What's the issue here?
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Mar 10, 2020 04:19
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