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CommonShore posted:OH NO THE THREAD HAS BEEN DESTROYED That may have been a Doctor Who thread, but this is the Doctor Who thread. The definitive article, you might say. 
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Dec 20, 2019 15:34
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Jerusalem posted:He called RTD who got all excited about Captain Jack being back too I'm not the biggest NuWho fan around these here parts, but I'll always say that Barrowman as Captain Jack was really great. It's an absolute pity we didn't get to see more of Jack with Nine and Rose, I thought they had really good chemistry as a team.
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Jan 28, 2020 13:04
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I like Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor, but like most of nuWho, the series just didn't grab me even after watching her first two or three episodes. So in a way I'm kind of glad I didn't continue watching, because this sort of idiotic retcon you guys are describing would have made my eyes roll so hard they'd pop out the back of my head.
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Mar 2, 2020 03:01
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The more I read about this, the more evident it becomes that ascended fanboys should never be allowed to run the properties they're fans of, because they eventually run them into the ground.
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Mar 2, 2020 16:19
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Rhyno posted:Destroying Gallifrey again was pretty goddamned stupid. Seriously, if Chibnall didn't want the Time Lords around and interfering with the Doctor's hijinks...then just don't use them. It's not mandatory they make an appearance once per season or anything.
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Mar 2, 2020 18:36
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I will say I'm not exactly shocked that Chibnall apparently gave the Doctor a brand new "magical destiny" origin that reeks of the Doctor apparently being just naturally superior, given that his run thus far has had some episodes with very sketchy premises (such as the Amazon-esque "workers should just accept their lot" one).
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Mar 3, 2020 19:47
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Rochallor posted:I would go so far as to say that if you don't like Love & Monsters I'm not sure what you're getting out of Doctor Who. I thought L&M was absolute garbage from top to bottom, and it still took Moffat's run to make me give up on modern DW.
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Mar 3, 2020 19:50
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Rhyno posted:The Force Awakens is really terrible though. So it's a pretty apt comparison then 
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Mar 3, 2020 22:35
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DancingShade posted:As someone who is a big fan of the Faction Paradox spin off novels and the unbound Doctor Who audio dramas (which for anyone unfamiliar are one-shot alternate continuities, basically a "what if" that frequently ends badly) I could care less about the current version of the TV show eating its own rear end with terrible continuity. It's just another unbound story, whatever. Continuity will get rebooted completely again at some point in the future so none of this will have a lasting impact other than maybe a footnote somewhere. This is pretty much why I bailed about halfway through Smith's run. With the exception of most of 9's run (which I put down mainly to Eccleston's acting) and a few moments here and there with 10, it became pretty clear that RTD was increasingly more worried about delivering "moments" instead of stories with a cohesive narrative. With the exception of the 50th anniversary special (which I forgive because it was just the proper amount of fanwankiness), I didn't like 11's run because Moffat was constantly trying to show just how super clever he believes himself to be. Never bothered to check out 12. 13...well, let's say I get the same amount of enthusiasm out of Chibnall's run as I would listening to someone rubbing their hands on styrofoam packaging. He's mainly just blah, except now he's apparently decided to take a page out of his predecessors' books and try to be super clever and impressed with himself too.
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Mar 4, 2020 21:49
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Stunt Rock posted:Honestly the Timeless Child twist isn't all that different from what Moffatt gave us with Matt Smith, where The Doctor was the most important and precious person in the entire universe and we were constantly being reminded of that at all times. That's funny because I was always under the impression that Moff was telling us that Amy Pond/Clara Oswald was the most important and precious person in the entire universe, which is probably what ended up making me and others absolutely loathe their characters after a while.
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Mar 5, 2020 08:32
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Rhyno posted:Moffat is so obsessed with people being super special and important that I kind of get the impression that his parents never told him that they loved him. To say nothing of his obvious issues with women.
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Mar 5, 2020 08:45
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bessantj posted:I've been trying to think why I liked pre-2005 Dr Who more than 2005- Dr Who and I think that's the reason, the story had more space to breath it wasn't contained within 40 mins. I know we'll never go back to stories being told over 4 to 6 25 minute episodes and that's a shame. Oh, that's very much a part of it for me, too. Yes, there absolutely is a lot of padding in several of the classic series' stories, but I'm fine with that. It's almost comforting in a way.
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Mar 5, 2020 19:33
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Rhyno posted:The Who expanded universe is often times even worse than the worst episode of the show. Novel after novel of dudes detailing their sexual fantasies about Ace. 
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Mar 6, 2020 19:00
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JacquelineDempsey posted:Boo this man! (j/k, I gave it a sensible chuckle/groan) I also vaguely remember these, and IIRC, they weren't an approved DW spinoff (as Lawrence Miles had quit the 8DA range in a fit of pique not long after they were taken over by BBC Books) and as such couldn't use any DW characters or make any DW references or anything. So it was a thing that was explicitly set up for and tied to DW. The main thing I remember about FP was a novel that had some FP agent kill off the Third Doctor, during his travels with Jo, because they were trying to create time paradoxes the Time Lords couldn't ignore, or some such thing. It didn't make a heck of a lot of sense even at the time, and the best explanation I can give is that Lawrence Miles basically hated the direction the 8DA range was going in, didn't get along with most of the other writers, and absolutely loathed the PDA (past Doctor adventures) range because he felt that the range was taking away from the 8DA (which he already had issues with). It was Miles sort of approaching these things the way Garth Ennis approaches superheroes (or for the wrestling fans in this subforum, he was slowly turning into Jim Cornette. Only without all the racism). So (and I might be misremembering or forgetting some things here), it was a series created by an embittered former DW 8DA writer, based explicitly on taking a sledgehammer to existing DW canon and throwing shade at his peers, that couldn't even use DW stuff. It's no wonder they didn't make much of a splash. E: and to be absolutely fair to Miles, he did have some legit criticisms about the range, as far as the 8DA went. I remember reading something where he said the brief the writers received for a new companion was that they should think of her being like a character off of the show "This Life", which Miles objected to because he thought the characters on that show were a bunch of shallow self-obsessed late-1990s yuppies. And he was right. There were also a fair amount of edgelords writing for the series that used characters from the show (mainly the aforementioned Ace) to write their slavering sexual fanfics about, or putting in "mature" poo poo like the Doctor casually talking about drinking a whole pot of tea with 'shrooms in it. And there was the one author who gleefully confessed to writing scenes of Turlough being tortured because he used to have BDSM fantasies about him in his younger days. Stuff like that. A lot of it was just pure wank that confused "being adult" with "lots of scenes of sex, drugs, and gory violence". Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Mar 6, 2020 |
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Mar 6, 2020 21:16
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MysticalMachineGun posted:Ugh. Agree with all the sentiment that the Master committing genocide off-screen and the ridiculous fan wankery in the finale really dragged it down. A lot of modern fandom does tend to boil down to "I KNOW WHAT THAT IS!  "
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Mar 6, 2020 22:34
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Astroman posted:That's literally not true and a poor description of the New Adventures. Counterpoint:  Seriously, though: the NDA/PDA ranges featured a fair bit of writing about Ace being all sexed up, having sex, losing her virginity to Glitz, etc. Perhaps some authors were truly genuine in trying to take DW back into a more "adult/mature" direction and away from being considered a children's show, and with Ace being the most recent companion, they decided to portray her in a more realistic light with sexual desires being a part of that. If so, while I don't necessarily think it's a good idea, if it's genuine then it's at least a logical step. On that note, however, I remember reading one PDA with 7 and Ace where one of the villains was leering over Ace so hard you could practically see the beads of sweat forming on the writer's forehead. I don't recall Peri or Tegan or Leela or any other female companions getting similar treatment in the PDA novels (Turlough, on the other hand...). Which is especially ironic in that the female companions in the past were often cast for their sex appeal, while Ace was meant to be a more progressive companion that wasn't just "for the dads"...and yet, even the guys who wrote for her on the show couldn't help but comment on how attractive they thought she was, so it was pretty much inevitable that given a novel format with looser restrictions, that some of the guys who wrote for her were going to go full-bore on just how sexy they thought she was. quote:They went in some weird directions with backstory and canon but you can't say they didn't try to do something in an era where the show was cancelled and for all intents and purposes a dead fandom relic. This reminds me of another thing about Lawrence Miles, too: he absolutely detested the notion that Big Finish basically came in and "replaced" the novels in most people's minds as being "real" DW. He felt the novels had been the one thing pushing the series forward after it went on hiatus and after the TV Movie came and went. When BF started doing stuff with 5, 6, and 7, I don't think he cared much, but when they started doing audio adventures with 8, I remember reading about how it really started to gnaw at him, mainly because (for licensing reasons at the time, I'm sure) they didn't acknowledge or use any elements or companions from the 8DA novels, so to him that was basically saying the novels were just glorified fanfic and the audios were the "true" DW wilderness years stories. Of course, he'd already pretty much quit the range at this time, so a lot of it just came across as sour grapes. And I seem to recall that BF did some Faction Paradox audios? So maybe he eventually got over any resentments he might have had.
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Mar 7, 2020 03:21
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Open Source Idiom posted:For instance, Lawrence Miles was, for the longest time, the only reason the EDAs were any good. And so much of the modern show, under RTD and Moffat, draws from his work and ideas. You can draw a direct line between The Doctor's Wife and Compassion, for instance, or Moffat's Silence arc and Interference. Miles would be surprised to hear that, as he's gone on record (as recently as 2015 on his blog) as stating just how much he dislikes the revived series, reserving quite a bit of dislike for Moffat's era in particular. Miles has never been overly fond of Moffat and has never been shy about saying so, so if there are any parallels to be drawn between Miles' novels and Moffat's run, they're likely unconscious and unintentional (I won't say they were outright nicked, because I have no idea if Moffat ever read any of Miles' work). I admire Miles for trying to push the series forward via the novels, I just think he forgot that the writers did not in fact own the IP, and that he was never going to be fully able to do the things he wanted to with the characters and premise. And when he finally realized it, they'd pretty much moved on without him.
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Mar 7, 2020 06:34
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Wolfechu posted:It wasn't Big Finish, it was BBV, a similar company which somehow - because of the complex nature of who holds the rights to what in Doctor Who - did a bunch of Big Finish-like Faction Paradox stories, which could mention and include the Sontarans, but couldn't actually use concepts like the Time Lords or Gallifrey. Instead you got talk of the Homeworld and the Great Families, and their Timeships. That's right, I knew there were some FP audios, I just misremembered who published 'em. And I am also reminded that Boucher wrote a Fourth Doctor PDA (Corpse Marker, I believe) that was basically a sequel to Robots of Death, and that also technically established that the universe of RoD existed in the same universe as Blakes 7 (IIRC he used a minor character from a B7 episode, and established them as ending up on the homeworld of the Sandminer crew, on the run from the Federation).
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Mar 7, 2020 08:26
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The_Doctor posted:I feel like TV Who has missed a trick by not having at least an ersatz Faction Paradox. It’s a really great concept. I looked at his tweets and sadly you're right  I hope he's OK and gets the help he needs.CommonShore posted:What makes it so loving brutal? I know there's other staff and people that work on the show, but I think a large part of the problem is that the showrunner is basically responsible for coordinating both the creative side of the show, and the logistical/financial side. As we saw with Moffat, sometimes that can cause bigtime problems.
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Mar 7, 2020 18:01
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CommonShore posted:Yeah but that's just the showrunner. What makes it so brutal for the cast? Think of it like this: you show up to work, ready to do your job, and either you can't work because your boss forgot some important detail so you have to waste a bunch of time waiting around, or everything is so rushed you're hurrying just to get poo poo done. Now imagine you're doing this while you're trying to act out the scripts written by the same boss.
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Mar 7, 2020 18:06
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CommonShore posted:That makes sense. Thanks! It also sounds to me like something that writing could fix. Id happily give up a location story for a soundstage story and a doctor light story. Back in the day, DW (and a lot of BBC shows in general) used a producer and script editor team, rather than a single showrunner being responsible for everything. The script editor basically solicited scripts from writers, did the necessary revisions to keep things within whatever parameters the show had (and reined in the more outrageous ideas as needed), and generally oversaw the creative side of things. The producer acted as the show's liason with the BBC, oversaw the budgets and a lot of the behind-the-scenes stuff in general. They still overrode the script editor on certain creative decisions when needed (which is ultimately what led to the breakdown of the relationship between John Nathan-Turner and Eric Saward during Six's run). I think the showrunner model works fine for smaller programs like sitcoms or programs where there's a basic setting and you don't need to come up with new locations every week. But as we have seen several times now with DW since it came back, there seem to be some very large problems with being responsible for both the show's creative vision and making sure all the money and equipment are available when they're needed. At some point one or the other is going to have to give.
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Mar 7, 2020 21:43
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Bicyclops posted:Part of why the First Doctor is so enjoyable, really, is that it's like "Okay, today Doctor Who is 'Honey, I Shrunk the TARDIS Crew' today" or "gently caress it, we're doing a fetch quest connected by a couple o' short stories" or "William Hartnell is also playing a character from the French Revolution, and no, this will not be explained" because they filmed a zillion episodes every week and at some times you just had to go with "The TARDIS crew literally just landed in a fake haunted house and got scared into thinking they'd traveled into the subconscious horror mind." And then, there's The Web Planet. 
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Mar 9, 2020 17:34
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