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After sitting on it for a bit, this shockingly topped Parasite and became my favourite of the year. So many tiny details keep popping into my mind and I end up just thinking about some moment or side character. Like, I could just ruminate on so many individual moments in this film: the extremely sympathetic tracking shot of Julia walking away from the cab back to the club, Howard watching her from the closet, every silent look KG gives when Howie decides to bet it all at the end, Arno throughout the entire finale. I loved this film.
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Dec 31, 2019 05:19
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So I'm assuming Arno is Howie's brother in law, obviously of some relation. Howie gets spooked that they're going to go after his family at the house, was that the point when Arno completely lost control of his henchmen? I can't imagine he would get his blood relatives involved. edit: Unless he was just forcing them to cut ties with Howie as he's about to get whacked. lurker2006 fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Dec 31, 2019 |
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Dec 31, 2019 06:30
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You should probably spoiler that. Arno's married to Howard's sister-in-law. He lost control when Howard locked them in. https://twitter.com/Papapishu/status/1210812774256787462 Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Dec 31, 2019 |
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Dec 31, 2019 14:27
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As much as I think I preferred both Good Time and Heaven Knows What to this, the Safdie brothers sure are a special pair. My favorite moment was easily Howard's absurdly goofy smile attempting to woo his wife back. Has anyone ever seen a Passover seder in movie before? It didn't seem especially extraordinary in the moment but upon thinking about it, I'm not sure I'd ever encountered it.
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Dec 31, 2019 16:56
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This could've maybe stood to lose ten or fifteen minutes or so to make it tighter and more tense, so Good Time might have the edge over it for me, but it was still loving awesome and I can't wait to watch it again.
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Dec 31, 2019 17:09
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What gives Uncut Gems the edge for me is that I have a hard time taking Good Time seriously. It just reads as a goofball comedy to me.
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Dec 31, 2019 19:23
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I think Good Time is better (it being kind of a goofball comedy is part of why it rules) but I've also seen it more. It's really close now and Gems might take the lead after a few more views. It helps that I never felt the length, I was actually surprised when I found out it was over two hours.
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Dec 31, 2019 20:37
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re: Oneohtrix Point Never, I recommend Rifts as well if you liked the score, but my avatar is the cover to R plus & which I think has the most similar vibe, aside from Rifts maybe, but it's not entirely the same, but my favorite record of his. Everything from Replica onward is incredible.Groovelord Neato posted:These takes are so bizarre. Like what LesterGroans posted:After sitting on it for a bit, this shockingly topped Parasite and became my favourite of the year. Yeah, I keep thinking about how Arno looks relieved at the end, when Howie wins the bet, it's pretty funny before you know what comes next. Also the line 'so you wanna talk about the trunk scenario' is amazing. Henchman of Santa posted:Also the Fat Jew was in this movie? I thought that was him, I couldn't really tell though.
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Dec 31, 2019 21:18
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Kull the Conqueror posted:As much as I think I preferred both Good Time and Heaven Knows What to this, the Safdie brothers sure are a special pair. My favorite moment was easily Howard's absurdly goofy smile attempting to woo his wife back. At a minimum, there’s Crimes and Misdemeanors Chevy Slyme fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Dec 31, 2019 |
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Dec 31, 2019 21:34
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Incredibly surreal to hear Kaneda's theme from the AKIRA soundtrack show up in an Adam Sandler movie. Anyway, very good movie. Sandler really nailed portraying that behavior that addicts have where they expect one good moment to make up for the constant bullshit they've been pulling before.
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Jan 1, 2020 22:18
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This movie was great but man was it stressful. I felt like the goons at the end, trapped and forced to ride a gambling addict's highs and lows. There's almost nothing redeeming about Sandler's character by the time the climax rolls around, but it's still hard not to feel the euphoria of the win at the end. Which is exactly what Arno felt which is the point I guess. Also I just love the concept. Having the playoff series be such a big part of the story and getting KG to star in it as himself was a masterstroke. And he was actually pretty good too. I think all the actors were, and Lakeith Stanfield is becoming one of my favourite actors. I am surprised to see so many goons liked Good Time over this. I haven't been able to bring myself to rewatch that because I found the main character so incredibly scummy (worse than Howard IMO) but maybe I'll give it another chance after this because every one else seems to have the opposite reaction.
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Jan 2, 2020 04:58
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Stanfield has never been anything but a joy to watch. I might like this a bit more than Good Time but I don’t know where Heaven Knows What would place.
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Jan 2, 2020 06:55
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Saw it on Christmas. The family behind me was gasping throughout the entire movie and during the final scene there were quite a few screams. I could just sense the anxiety in the room gradually increasing until that final breaking point. What a fantastic movie, can't wait to watch it again.
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Jan 2, 2020 07:15
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SunAndSpring posted:Incredibly surreal to hear Kaneda's theme from the AKIRA soundtrack show up in an Adam Sandler movie. I mean you joke, but this track during the conversation with KG and Howard at the end is really similar, but the vocals are incredible: https://youtu.be/_ZseRH6vEbI
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Jan 2, 2020 07:21
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AccountSupervisor posted:I love everything about this movie but one of my favorite little things is how Julia Foxs character genuinely cares about Howie. Man, I don't agree with this take at all. She is absolutely a hustler in her own right taking advantage of a rich older guy desperate to look like a bigshot with a hot girlfriend in the city and a wife at home. She takes advantage of him constantly, using his apartment for parties, not coming to work, and social climbing as soon as a celebrity is in the room. That she gets desperate when he kicks her out of the apartment (with the tattoo and apologies) isn't love - it's just desperation! Howard is the best meal ticket she's pulled! The end of the movie proves this: she has no intention of giving that money back to Howard - she has Handsome Older Man fake out the thugs that Howard specifically told her to get into the car with because she's going to take off with it herself! She's chaotic and emotional and prone to bad decisions just like Howard, so she's no mastermind, but their relationship was absolutely transactional. Anyway I saw this movie the other night and it was a heart attack. I went into the movie high and that was a bad idea. Lots of people in the theater (my wife included) hated the movie, i could tell. While I don't know if I have the fortitude to ever see it again, I thought Howard Ratner was probably the most interesting character I've seen in 2019. This isn't a movie about a scheme involving an opal, this is a movie about the last few days in an addict's life at the end of a very long downward spiral. Howard sabotages himself constantly, and one of the many tragedies in watching it happen is how much potential (uncut gem...) he has but wastes. He has charm and people like him despite themselves, he has a real talent for sports betting, he's smart and engineers a plot that depends on getting KG interested in this opal and then utterly nails the execution. But at every turn his addiction turns all these strengths against him. The end of the movie was utterly inevitable, it was just a question of how and when. The gunshot to the face still made me gasp. Saddest part of the movie for me is a tie between meeting Howard's son and seeing he's exactly like his dad, and realizing as I left the theater that the father in-law just lost $190k with absolutely nothing to show for it. The utter destruction Howard leaves in his wake is astounding.
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Jan 2, 2020 13:35
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The Bramble posted:Man, I don't agree with this take at all. She is absolutely a hustler in her own right taking advantage of a rich older guy desperate to look like a bigshot with a hot girlfriend in the city and a wife at home. She takes advantage of him constantly, using his apartment for parties, not coming to work, and social climbing as soon as a celebrity is in the room. That she gets desperate when he kicks her out of the apartment (with the tattoo and apologies) isn't love - it's just desperation! Howard is the best meal ticket she's pulled! The end of the movie proves this: she has no intention of giving that money back to Howard - she has Handsome Older Man fake out the thugs that Howard specifically told her to get into the car with because she's going to take off with it herself! She's chaotic and emotional and prone to bad decisions just like Howard, so she's no mastermind, but their relationship was absolutely transactional. Oh I guess I completely missed the part at the end where Howard told her to get into the car with the thugs and her getting into the car was supposed to be her taking the money for herself. I figured she had no idea what was going on with the thugs and just knew to run because she was in danger. My entire post was pretty much based off thinking she was going to take the money and run but didnt. I am still not sure if I agree that it was telegraphed that she intended to split with the money and leave Howard. I felt like the end was playing with that expectation but went the opposite way. AccountSupervisor fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 18:33
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The Bramble posted:The end of the movie proves this: she has no intention of giving that money back to Howard - she has Handsome Older Man fake out the thugs that Howard specifically told her to get into the car with because she's going to take off with it herself! This is wrong. The guys watching her were with Phil and Arno. Howard asked her to have casino security escort her to her car, but he didn't say to have anyone get into the car with her. She did one better than having casino security escort her and had Handsome Older Man collect the money for her. But that's not an indication she was going to rob Howard; that's her being resourceful. Maybe she was still going to rob Howard, but everything we see her do is consistent with her bringing him the money.
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Jan 2, 2020 18:51
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Sir Kodiak posted:This is wrong. The guys watching her were with Phil and Arno. Howard asked her to have casino security escort her to her car, but he didn't say to have anyone get into the car with her. She did one better than having casino security escort her and had Handsome Older Man collect the money for her. But that's not an indication she was going to rob Howard; that's her being resourceful. Maybe she was still going to rob Howard, but everything we see her do is consistent with her bringing him the money. Ok yeah this is what I thought. I also mentioned in my post that the relationship "is as honest and genuine as a relationship like that could be". This meaning that yes of course the relationship is transactional in the way most relationships with older wealthy men and young women can be, but I do feel like the movie went out of its way to show that there were plenty of moments when Howie was down and out and she could have left him or turned on him, etc, as soon as the money "runs out" or became less than what she thought. While their relationship was certainly codependent and dysfunctional and money was a factor, it was a lot more nuanced and had a lot more humanity and care than is typically shown of a relationship like that and I enoyed them playing with that expectation.
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Jan 2, 2020 19:03
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Yeah, agreed. While it's just my impression, I do think she was going to bring him the money. First, having his win get undercut at all prior to him getting shot doesn't make any sense from a story perspective. And then further, someone who gets the name of the the married man who just dumped her tattooed on her rear end is clearly emotionally/psychologically invested and not operating purely on a mercenary basis, even if him supporting her is obviously a huge part of why she got into the relationship.
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Jan 2, 2020 19:16
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Starks posted:This movie was great but man was it stressful. I felt like the goons at the end, trapped and forced to ride a gambling addict's highs and lows. There's almost nothing redeeming about Sandler's character by the time the climax rolls around, but it's still hard not to feel the euphoria of the win at the end. Which is exactly what Arno felt which is the point I guess. The thing that redeems Howie for me is that he's very good at what he does. He wins all the bets we see him make, the way he manipulates Kevin Garnett is impressive, and juggling all the different debts he has takes a lot of work. Ultimately he's stealing from a lot of people, but I think you want to see him succeed just because of the amount of skill it would take to do so.
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Jan 2, 2020 19:52
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I'm betting my life on a tipoff
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Jan 2, 2020 20:47
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Kinda wish the soundtrack was just "Windows" on a two-and-a-half hour loop, goddamn what a jam.
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Jan 2, 2020 20:57
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pospysyl posted:The thing that redeems Howie for me is that he's very good at what he does. He wins all the bets we see him make, the way he manipulates Kevin Garnett is impressive, and juggling all the different debts he has takes a lot of work. Ultimately he's stealing from a lot of people, but I think you want to see him succeed just because of the amount of skill it would take to do so. I don’t really think him winning the bets was competence as much as luck but it was a great choice imo to have a movie about a gambling addict’s downward spiral still have him win all his actual bets. Ultimately though he was gambling in other ways and lost, and I think the auction scene is a perfect example. He wasn’t just being greedy, he was gambling, and probably would’ve kept chasing even if KG upped the bid to 200k.
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Jan 2, 2020 21:02
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I figured she was just a mess like he is since she's insanely out of his league.
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Jan 2, 2020 21:09
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Sir Kodiak posted:This is wrong. The guys watching her were with Phil and Arno. Howard asked her to have casino security escort her to her car, but he didn't say to have anyone get into the car with her. She did one better than having casino security escort her and had Handsome Older Man collect the money for her. But that's not an indication she was going to rob Howard; that's her being resourceful. Maybe she was still going to rob Howard, but everything we see her do is consistent with her bringing him the money. I don't know. In the preceding scene before he is shot, it is Howard's stated intention that the money be brought to him so he can pay Arno. We then see Arno's thugs specifically evaded by Julia who gives no other instructions but "to leave" to her driver. I think the filmmakers could have made a lot of different choices if they didn't want there to be any ambiguity about the ultimate fate of those bags of money. I will acknowledge that Howard probably meant casino security when he told her to get walked to the car. I think though Julia's general disloyalty, selfishness, and resourcefulness, together with the ambiguity of that scene, gives weight to the idea she was going to abscond with the cash.
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Jan 2, 2020 21:52
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The Bramble posted:I don't know. In the preceding scene before he is shot, it is Howard's stated intention that the money be brought to him so he can pay Arno. We then see Arno's thugs specifically evaded by Julia who gives no other instructions but "to leave" to her driver. I think the filmmakers could have made a lot of different choices if they didn't want there to be any ambiguity about the ultimate fate of those bags of money. If you want to say there's a question of what she eventually decides to do once she's in a car with the money I think that makes sense, but before you were talking about how the end of the movie proves she's going to betray him, which I don't think is justifiable. Her avoiding Phil's guys–I don't think Arno actually controls them–is fully explained by her and Howard not wanting her to be manhandled by some thugs. Howard gives her the instruction to have security walk her to the car at least in part because he knows Phil will have sent some people. Nothing about her slipping Arno's guys implies she's not going back to Howard. So it's just a question of her character, which, sure, you could imagine her going either way. But generally we see her work people through manipulation, not straight-up rob them.
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Jan 2, 2020 22:02
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It wouldn't make much sense for her to go to with Arno/Phil's guys since what's to stop them from taking all the money/hurting her anyway.
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Jan 2, 2020 22:13
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I think we can count Howie betting on Kevin Garnett driving the price of the auction up past 200k as a lost bet edit: see i was beaten to this now
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Jan 2, 2020 22:16
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I think we can count Howie betting on Kevin Garnett driving the price of the auction up past 200k as a lost bet 2 out of 3 isn't so bad, but even that bet turns out to be not quite a catastrophic loss. Howie's real fatal flaw is not realizing how much other people's goodwill counts for. I think the implication is that by frustrating Angela the auctioneer his gem was devalued. Howie not realizing this causes him to decline KG's initial offer. Plus there's also the ending. edit: Now that I'm thinking about it, that lost bet put Howie 30k in the hole, so I guess it was pretty bad.
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Jan 2, 2020 22:21
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I guess the way you could put it is Howie is great at betting on sports but bad at betting on people - he doesn't bet on KG caving at the auction, he doesn't bet on him hanging on to the Opal, he doesn't bet on Arno going to the bookie and cancelling his bets, he doesn't bet on Phil getting fed up and shooting him
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Jan 2, 2020 22:23
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I guess the way you could put it is Howie is great at betting on sports but bad at betting on people - he doesn't bet on KG caving at the auction, he doesn't bet on him hanging on to the Opal, he doesn't bet on Arno going to the bookie and cancelling his bets, he doesn't bet on Phil getting fed up and shooting him Great observation. doesn't bet on his wife laughing at his offer of reconciliation in his face, doesn't bet on Demany being pissed and putting him on a bus, doesn't bet on Demany later showing up without the opal...
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Jan 3, 2020 02:19
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I like how when KG gets the tip-off he goes to Arno and Phil ‘oh man you know how hosed we woulda been if we didn’t get that??? That was the most important part of the whole god drat bet!” But re: people saying Howard is completely unredeemable and how could you like him, etc. like, we see multiple scenes of him being charismatic and shows why he’s as successful as he is (I mean at least enough to run a jewelery store and have a nice house and apartment in NYC), but he instantly is making KG and his crew laugh by showing him the furby (that line is also hilarious, when he makes its eyes look left and right, “it scares the poo poo out of people”), his kids love him still, or the two boys at least, and during the Passover dinner, he’s making the whole room laugh and Gooey chooses to sit next to him after dinner, and talks only to him basically, and makes him laugh and he likes him enough to talk poo poo on Arno, to which Howie replies “eh, he’s not that bad”, or whatever. I mean yeah most of the movie is Howard making loving awful decisions, but he’s winning every single stupid rear end bet he makes. I love when Arno and his goons confront him at the school play and he finds out they followed him and cancelled the bet he makes with the restaurant owner, he almost seems to forget that 5 goons are choking him out and really ready to gently caress him up, but he’s more concerned about the bet being cancelled and his Adam Sandler comedy voice comes out, “You cancelled the bet...??? You loving idiot Arno!’. I love the different personas Howard puts on, he’s got the showroom, salesman Howard who’s got the like sing song-y Jewish as hell voice he puts on, “these are precious black opals... I’m thinking where are these guys gettin loving black opals??”, he’s got the at home around Dinah Howard, Howard around Julia, the Howard at Passover, Howard in front of Arno and the goons... he does such an incredible job of making those different personas seem convincing in a way that everyone will act differently in front of different people. Also Julia for sure is actually in love with him, and I feel like was actually just doing business with The Weeknd, same as Demany does and how he brings KG and other clientele in. She was ready to go back to NYC with Howard and was super smart to have the Handsome Man take the cash to the car for her. She’s probably the one who maneuvers all of those situations really well, better than Howard could’ve, going to his room to watch the game was incredibly smart, and getting him to bring the money out was what saved her life in that moment at least. I mean, what they did was entirely legal, she’s entitled to that money, the goons probably won’t be able to track her down without the info from Arno that they’d get, and also would they really keep trying at that point? I bet Phil and the other dude are trying to lay as low as possible, and if anything the other dude at the casino is an accessory to murder, or at least some other criminal charges, cause he’s also on the security cameras and seen loving with Howard. Edit: I guess I meant the bets he literally places with bookies, he’s obviously bad at the bets you make in life that aren’t quantified by ‘over/unders’ and parlays or whatever, all of that is gibberish to me, I feel like Julia reading off the bet to the casino staff. You could sorta count the auction as official, but where he’s good w/ betting is like, basketball games. I also like how you can tell Adam Sandler is a huge basketball fan, a lot of lines were adlibbed and I feel like a lot of the basketball talk was. There’s an SBnation article about how this is the greatest sports movie ever, and I feel the same way, it doesn’t sugar coat anything, if you were an NBA fan in 2012 you know what happens, but the way they recontextualize KG’s 2012 season and make it about a rock is funny as hell, I love the like not-Doc Rivers giving the pep talk in the locker room at half time, telling everyone to look at KG and how well he’s playing, meanwhile, KG is seeing the whole universe, and that the ‘fuckin dinosaurs were starin’ at this rock, I’m not fuckin around’. Not sure if someone posted this, but it’s an interview with the guy who played Phil, or ‘Keith Richards’, who has never acted before this: https://uproxx.com/movies/uncut-gems-scary-guy-interview-keith-williams-richards/ and was initially wary about it, but I love this interview, it’s so genuine and he seems like a really good guy. I love how he talks about how he was amazed by the fact that he’s in the entire movie front to back, and how what he shot and what he saw on set was nothing like what ended up on screen, but was still self conscious about his scenes and thought he could’ve done better. But god drat, he’s such a good actor for this sort of role, one of my favorite lines after my initial viewing was him saying ‘you really wanna do that??’ When Howard sees them at the play and says ‘this is hosed up guys... can I talk to outside for a second?’. Dude is a legend. caligulamprey posted:Kinda wish the soundtrack was just "Windows" on a two-and-a-half hour loop, goddamn what a jam. Same, but I think the scene where “THE BLADE” plays is so god drat epic, because of the music. https://youtu.be/z-Man49NhcY Like drat, I play this like people in movies play Eye of the Tiger, like I’m getting ready for a boxing match or a marathon or something. imhotep fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Jan 3, 2020 |
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Jan 3, 2020 07:56
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Did you guys notice the picture in Howard's shop of him with Slick Rick that's visible for about four seconds during the last scene? There's probably other celebrities on the wall too. Also that the main title resembles the Nintendo logo? Little stuff but it adds to the overall tapestry of the film.
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Jan 4, 2020 07:05
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When Howard is giving that big speech about winning and then goes "...let's bet on it" I'm just sitting there going nooooooo, you were so close. Absolutely killed me. and also him i guess.
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Jan 4, 2020 07:57
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I loving hated this movie and three days later I want to rewatch it
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Jan 4, 2020 20:44
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Just saw this movie and it whipped rear end. Insanely unrelenting. For some reason I was reminded of Mandy, except with loan sharking and gambling in place of horror... Just a pure descent into hell.Tangents posted:When Howard is giving that big speech about winning and then goes "...let's bet on it" I'm just sitting there going nooooooo, you were so close. Absolutely killed me. and also him i guess. Yes but! He's not as close as he seems. Even if he gave the money to Arno, he still owes God knows what to the little curly-haired guy, plus he's been using other people's counterfeit watches to pay other debts, etc... Howard is definitely doomed no matter what happens with Arno. Polo-Rican fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jan 5, 2020 |
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Jan 4, 2020 20:52
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How does the pawning rings thing work, anyway? What does the other shop get out of it if they both agree that he's coming back in a week for it?
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Jan 5, 2020 01:28
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Tangents posted:How does the pawning rings thing work, anyway? What does the other shop get out of it if they both agree that he's coming back in a week for it? As I understand it most pawnshops will hold someone's stuff as collateral for set a time after paying the person for the item. When the person returns they pay back what the pawnshop gave them plus an amount of interest. It basically works as a loan for people with no credit or income to back a real loan.
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Jan 5, 2020 02:22
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Tangents posted:How does the pawning rings thing work, anyway? What does the other shop get out of it if they both agree that he's coming back in a week for it? The pawnshop guy said he'd give him 21,000 with a 7% vig. The vig is basically an interest. So to buy back the ring, Howard had to give the schleppy pawnshop guy 21,000*1.07 = 22,470. Honestly not a terrible interest rate for such a short term loan.
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Jan 5, 2020 02:45
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I saw Howard getting shot as something incredibly consonant with the collector's character. He's an older low-level criminal, so he's probably spent a good portion of his life inside. In prison you're sort of trained to respond to everything with aggression. You see this the whole movie. Psychologically, it's probably not that smart to confine a person who has been through that for hours and hours and hours. I thought that him shooting Howard was the most true to life point in the movie. He was fed up and didn't care about the job anymore. Everything after was opportunistic.
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