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As someone who never played SS2, I would appreciate some explanation of the hacking minigame thing.
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Jan 2, 2020 20:40
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CirclMastr posted:As someone who never played SS2, I would appreciate some explanation of the hacking minigame thing. Each dot you click on rolls vs. the difficulty to see if you succeed or fail. If you fail, the dot turns black. You want to light up 3 dots in a row by successes. If you fail on a dot with the red outline (ICE dot) you critically fail and break something, blow up the box, etc. Each re-attempt costs some nanites (currency).
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Jan 2, 2020 20:46
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I actually didn't know you could succeed on ICE nodes, since clicking them always blew me up  My luck is less than stellar
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Jan 2, 2020 20:58
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Night10194 posted:Each dot you click on rolls vs. the difficulty to see if you succeed or fail. If you fail, the dot turns black. You want to light up 3 dots in a row by successes. If you fail on a dot with the red outline (ICE dot) you critically fail and break something, blow up the box, etc. Each re-attempt costs some nanites (currency). Wow, thanks for explaining it. That's some bullshit right there.
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Jan 2, 2020 21:32
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Hacking success is also determined by your stats (Hacking skill and the Cyber Affinity stat) and what level of hacking software you've found (which the game shows when its calculating your success rates, but otherwise isn't good at telling you about). Another fun little thing that you might not notice: The big number in the upper left of the interface is your chance to Fail, thus you have much better odds when it says 40% than when it says 75%.
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Jan 2, 2020 22:28
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90s Cringe Rock posted:Wolf 3D had mouse as a default option, didn't it? Of course, that was with the mouse mapped to forwards/backwards and turning, with no keyboard necessary.
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Jan 3, 2020 00:43
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Geemer posted:Wow, thanks for explaining it. That's some bullshit right there. Eh, it's not all bad. If you put a couple points into hacking you can do fun things like hack the turrets and make them attack enemies for you.
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Jan 3, 2020 00:47
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You also have to remember the player starts with really low skills and gets way, way more bullshit later on in this game. You're seeing the PC with Hack 1 or 2 and middling Cyberaffinity. Later on, these are trivial. Are you going to be using Modify? I remember it being super awesome for energy weapons.
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Jan 3, 2020 00:48
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also iirc more hacking isn't just a reduction in failure chances, it also reduces the number of dangerous nodes in the hacking grid, so it's even easier overall since (unless you're desperate) you'd avoid trying any potential lines that include ICE nodes. That's why on one crate Danaru kept resetting, nearly all the possible lines had a ICE node in it.
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Jan 3, 2020 00:54
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anilEhilated posted:Yeah. Doom did it too - the mouselook as we now know it didn't show up on PC until 1995's Terminator: Future Shock. If you allow for Mac, Marathon had "modern" mouselook as an option in late 1994. It was just kind of lovely modern mouselook.
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Jan 3, 2020 01:16
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Neophyte posted:also iirc more hacking isn't just a reduction in failure chances, it also reduces the number of dangerous nodes in the hacking grid, so it's even easier overall since (unless you're desperate) you'd avoid trying any potential lines that include ICE nodes. That's why on one crate Danaru kept resetting, nearly all the possible lines had a ICE node in it. Correct. My understanding is that every point of Cyber Affinity preemptively deletes an ICE node.
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Jan 3, 2020 01:54
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Night10194 posted:You also have to remember the player starts with really low skills and gets way, way more bullshit later on in this game. You're seeing the PC with Hack 1 or 2 and middling Cyberaffinity. Later on, these are trivial.  )Fake Edit; I just took a peek on the wiki and mother fucker, the EMP rifle is the only weapon in the game than needs 6 maintenance minimum  By comparisons, some insane spoiler weapons only need 4. On the bright side, Laser pistol only "needs" 1, and you don't have to maintain a sword 
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Jan 3, 2020 02:47
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I think pretty much everyone but a pure melee or psy character needs Maintenance.
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Jan 3, 2020 02:54
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Night10194 posted:I think pretty much everyone but a pure melee or psy character needs Maintenance. I think Standard Weapons can get by without it to an extent from a mix of the Wrench being a Standard weapon (and thus being buffed by Standard weapons), there being a lot of Pistols lying around, and because you can find a Standard 6 gun that never degrades and oh also the Standard 6 weapon is pretty handily the all-around best weapon in the game. Of course this is entirely theoretical, Maintenance is a good thing to have period just for extending battery timers.
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Jan 3, 2020 04:20
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Night10194 posted:You also have to remember the player starts with really low skills and gets way, way more bullshit later on in this game. You're seeing the PC with Hack 1 or 2 and middling Cyberaffinity. Later on, these are trivial. that was a joke, everyone knows you just use the shard on everything
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Jan 3, 2020 07:05
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Seyser Koze posted:The problem with this is that you kinda need to know in advance what you're planning to do so that you know to go deep into the appropriate stats. Probably my one gripe about the game that isn't just "game old" is how, early on, you're constantly seeing "you need <skill+1> in this skill to do this!" And so, being the blind first-time player that you are, you distribute your cyber-modules evenly, and the next thing you know the spoiler gun requires 6 points in this skill and none of your skills or stats are above 3. To be fair-ish, that's a pretty common problem in old RPGs. You're constantly making choices with insufficient context. There's also not much effort to balance things most of the time, so going down one path gets you near-omnipotence, while another gets you 3 percent faster swimming. It's a system that seems to offer a ton of options turning out to have a handful of useful paths and a lot of ways to screw yourself over. Personally, the way weapon decay worked was as much of a dealbreaker. I've been in games when I didn't mind it, but combining resource cost there with how just wrenching enemies was usually free (but tedious), it made the whole process more frustrating than it had to be.
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Jan 3, 2020 11:00
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Yeah a lot of these old games weren't really winnable the first time around, you were expected to die (a lot) until you got a better idea of what was needed (and what wasn't, loving trap choices). I mean, the very first enemy comes at you running and bellowing "KILLL MEEEEE!!!" and if you as a first time player could do anything other than shriek and backpedal while furiously hitting only air with the wrench until you were beat to death - well, you're a hell of a lot better than I was. I mean, giving you the respawn stations instead of making you just restart from the last save was probably considered at the time as totally coddling the player.
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Jan 3, 2020 12:06
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There are things these older games do that I miss, like realizing you've got a mouse and a whole keyboard, and doing functions and keybinding appropriately, instead of having a tiny handful of context-sensitive buttons to make sure it can work on a controller. But the "find out after four hours that your build is dogshit, you can't fix it, start over"? Yeah, that is something I am glad got left behind. As for the O/S upgrades, here's a list. I'm sure you can find this yourself, but I will sort of reproduce it here in case of spoiler concerns. "A summary of this list, which doesn't care about spoilers so click at your own risk posted:
I suspect that Pack Rat is required in order to access 100% of your inventory, but at point you can carry so much stuff that who gives a poo poo? And looking at the other options on there, "you can carry another weapon" is really not worth giving up all the other stuff on here. Getting eight Cybernetic Modules is also something that sounds really good, but only if you don't know how much that's actually worth. Eight is a pittance.
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Jan 3, 2020 13:00
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Neophyte posted:Yeah a lot of these old games weren't really winnable the first time around, you were expected to die (a lot) until you got a better idea of what was needed (and what wasn't, loving trap choices). I mean, the very first enemy comes at you running and bellowing "KILLL MEEEEE!!!" and if you as a first time player could do anything other than shriek and backpedal while furiously hitting only air with the wrench until you were beat to death - well, you're a hell of a lot better than I was. "Aw yeah, this game isn't scary. Stupid mutants bringing a gun to a wrench fight....Did I just hear a monkey? It is a monkey, what the gently caress-IT HAS PSYCHIC POWERS THAT'S CHEATING" So don't feel bad, you probably didn't flee back through a window and start spamming your handful of handgun rounds at the least dangerous enemy in the entire game in a fit of complete confusion. If I remember right, the re-spawn stations were considered super loving cool (SS1 had em too). Though it's an understandable thought, considering these days I've seen self proclaimed "Real Oldschool Gamers" decry the idea of adding mercy invincibility to a game lacking as "Not getting REAL, OLDSCHOOL, sonic gameplay" 
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Jan 3, 2020 17:51
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MechaCrash posted:There are things these older games do that I miss, like realizing you've got a mouse and a whole keyboard, and doing functions and keybinding appropriately, instead of having a tiny handful of context-sensitive buttons to make sure it can work on a controller. But the "find out after four hours that your build is dogshit, you can't fix it, start over"? Yeah, that is something I am glad got left behind. No, you can absolutely max out your inventory capacity without taking Pack Rat. Pack Rat is just a bad choice, as someone mentioned earlier - especially when you can slot in a Strength implant to achieve the same effect, plus more besides. I've always taken the second implant slot first - it's just too good to pass up - and then the bonus ranged damage second, probably. Neophyte posted:Yeah a lot of these old games weren't really winnable the first time around, you were expected to die (a lot) until you got a better idea of what was needed (and what wasn't, loving trap choices). I mean, the very first enemy comes at you running and bellowing "KILLL MEEEEE!!!" and if you as a first time player could do anything other than shriek and backpedal while furiously hitting only air with the wrench until you were beat to death - well, you're a hell of a lot better than I was. I'd say there are definitely "wrong choices" to make with your character build, though (from memory at least) it always seemed obvious enough to me what would be useful and what would be... less useful. Like, the rate at which you were exposed to various obstacles, items and mechanics vs the rate at which you were given cybernetic modules (i.e. this game's XP or "skill points" or whatever) seemed tuned well enough that you could make semi-informed choices with your upgrades. E.g. I think on my first playthrough I focussed on Standard weapons and then hacking, and that was fine. In contrast I tried an early Psi ability once - and read through the different Psi abilities - and basically decided to never use Psi ever. I've still never played a Psi character. It could be that I'm wrong and Psi could be very powerful, but it all seemed like way too much of an investment for too little return.
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Jan 4, 2020 00:49
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Psi always seemed like too much of an all or nothing thing to me. When I'm sober I'm a real fuckin' tightwad with cyber modules because I'm always worried I'll accidentally lock myself out of something. I'm a little more "get whatever lol" when I have cider My only problem with the two implants upgrade is that you cant install two strength implants 
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Jan 4, 2020 01:07
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Danaru posted:Psi always seemed like too much of an all or nothing thing to me. When I'm sober I'm a real fuckin' tightwad with cyber modules because I'm always worried I'll accidentally lock myself out of something. I'm a little more "get whatever lol" when I have cider I started to look at it like this (Since double implant was the only other thing I remembered outside of 'these make me hit things gooder). Having two cyber slots means keeping the strength implant in 24/7, instead of constantly swapping it in and out for a "Nerd bonuses" implant or whatever. Anyone looking to finally try this game, but without a wiki in their lap, may want to consider just saying gently caress it and playing on Easy. Cheaper prices (on everything), more generous loot, and Health is "Start with what Normal Ends with, upgrade to about twice normal's max health". So that's another heaping pile of upgrade points you can cheap out on. By contrast, "Excuse me, I play all games on HARDER difficulty like a real man" can lead to a soft lock situation early on without foreknowledge due to increased costs, though I think the nerd implant could get around that? I don't remember if it comes before or after that part. Section Z fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jan 4, 2020 |
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Jan 4, 2020 01:34
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When I first played the game I never used the implants because the game promised consequences if you let them run out of power and I knew I'd never remember to keep them juiced up. 
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Jan 4, 2020 03:14
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Antistar01 posted:E.g. I think on my first playthrough I focussed on Standard weapons and then hacking, and that was fine. In contrast I tried an early Psi ability once - and read through the different Psi abilities - and basically decided to never use Psi ever. I've still never played a Psi character. It could be that I'm wrong and Psi could be very powerful, but it all seemed like way too much of an investment for too little return. Well one of the not-so-deep secrets of System Shock 2 is that "Standard Weapons and also hacking" is probably the most generally powerful build in the game. Psi is its own weird kettle of fish because it doubles down on the uneven design of the game. There are a number of excellent Psi powers, but the trick is that many of the best powers are the ones that are designed to synergize with other builds or counter particular dangers. Going pure Psi is basically a challenge run all its own.
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Jan 4, 2020 06:48
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It's a really fun challenge, though; makes you utilize things you would not normally consider using (calming and converting enemies, enemy and item detection, the wall power...).
anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Jan 4, 2020 |
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Jan 4, 2020 14:59
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 New Episode!Let's Play System Shock 2 Episode 3 - Okay Dan, Move On I hate the loving cargo bays
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Jan 4, 2020 21:15
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Danaru posted:
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Jan 4, 2020 21:23
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Oh god why are you not using any of the security terminals. The replicators??
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Jan 4, 2020 22:11
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It's too late now ™ but browsing the wiki reminded me that a couple Chargen options give you free items (not that the game tells you this). Marine Energy weapon training lets you start the game with a free laser!... That is at 2/10 durability. I expect I may pick that option anyways the next time I have a hankerin for pew pew guns gameplay.nielsm posted:Oh god why are you not using any of the security terminals. The replicators?? This video makes me faintly remember a constant cycle of "I'll be a smart boy and hack a security panel! ... I have no loving idea where those are  " and also dealing with turrets the hard way gently caress that warehouse room so bad, my brain is telling me "That was the literal hardest room in the game, right?" Sylphosaurus posted:Indeed, gently caress them cargobays. 
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Jan 4, 2020 22:49
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Yeah, hacking security is a good way to not be infuriated by turrets. You can just waltz right up to one and whack it with a wrench until it's almost destroyed, then back off and use a ranged weapon to finish it off so you're not caught in the explosion. You know what, I never considered the idea that that ghost might have been the player character. I... guess it's possible? I've always loaded a save when I die in SS2, rather than use the respawn stations. Not sure why I decided all that time ago to do it that way. I guess to me it was a new mechanic in games, and it felt cheaty. Actually I think I still wouldn't enjoy sending wave after wave of my own replicated body at the enemy. I've actually always liked this part of the game because it's so challenging. It's the most "survival horror" part of the game in terms of struggling with lots of enemies and a lack of resources. It's quite the experience to be hiding behind a crate, with one of those big bots stomping ever closer, periodically popping out of cover to squeeze off the last few rounds you have, switching between two almost broken pistols as you do it because they keep jamming/breaking. ... To be fair though it's much easier if you're not really drunk.
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Jan 5, 2020 00:52
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I decided to play some of the game today, when I saw you post the update, so I watched us both suffer through Engineering.
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Jan 5, 2020 05:17
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The funny thing about setting off a security alert? You can just walk up to a security station and cancel the alarm. I don't think it even requires hacking.
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Jan 5, 2020 05:48
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Seyser Koze posted:The funny thing about setting off a security alert? You can just walk up to a security station and cancel the alarm. I don't think it even requires hacking. Yeah. And you seriously don't want security to be on alert down in Engineering/cargo bays, it makes ALL the helpful droids wake up.
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Jan 5, 2020 10:13
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nielsm posted:And you seriously don't want security to be on alert down in Engineering/cargo bays, it makes ALL the helpful droids wake up. Seems to me like that would save quite a lot of deaths. Mind you, I've never played the game. Pea fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Jan 5, 2020 |
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Jan 5, 2020 11:09
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Theoretically possible but very difficult given the room layout. gently caress those warehouses (warerooms) so much, this is where I always run out of resources, no matter the build, and end up running around like a headless chicken looking for anything that could be used offensively.
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Jan 5, 2020 12:22
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The helpful droids are way less of a problem once you have a gun you can use regularly. Like a pew pew laser gun.
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Jan 5, 2020 15:07
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You know you got that keycard you needed in the first cargo bay two thirds into this video. fake edit: of course you know since you've had a chance to edit and upload the video by now. 
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Jan 6, 2020 02:18
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The whole cargo bay sequence is awful - slow doors that suddenly open to surprise 'splodybois, confusing hallways, constant angry wornguys, backtracking through the confusing hallways, dark twisty crate mazes with EVEN MORE droids around the corner, ugh. Even the bridge respawn room is pretty inconvienient. I give this Hellship Space Cruise 1/10, would not recommend, worse even than a Disney cruise
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Jan 6, 2020 04:26
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I hope Dan runs into the hazard that baffled me on my first playthrough (stepping on the one pile of worms that's in the middle of a hallway somewhere and then wasting half of your health hypos because you didn't see what the anti-toxin hypos were for and you're hoping it'll wear off on its own eventually))
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Jan 6, 2020 04:28
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Seyser Koze posted:I hope Dan runs into the hazard that baffled me on my first playthrough (stepping on the one pile of worms that's in the middle of a hallway somewhere and then wasting half of your health hypos because you didn't see what the anti-toxin hypos were for and you're hoping it'll wear off on its own eventually)) I know exactly which one you mean, and I do point it out because its extremely rude
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Jan 6, 2020 04:41
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