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Is he worth a vote?
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Jan 1, 2020 21:46
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Azza Bamboo posted:Is he worth a vote? He's definitely on the left of the party, super critical of Blair, was always solidly pro-leave which would be advantageous in appealing to the north (but no longer has to campaign on it so wouldn't alienate remainers). He's scrappier than Corbyn (who he always supported) and from Tyneside so hard to paint as a middle class London elite. He has made some silly mistakes like posing with his son who dressed as Michael Jackson for a fancy dress party rather... enthusiastically, which are issues. I honestly think on balance there would be worse candidates for leader, at present we don't necessarily need a perfectly good person to take over, that was Corbyn, we need someone effective. E: he's also has the correct take on why labour lost, I.e. by going de facto remain ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Jan 1, 2020 |
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Jan 1, 2020 22:07
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Something in his past about fiddling funds too. Also don't know how he'd stand on stuff like LGBT issues and/or race.
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Jan 1, 2020 22:14
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OwlFancier posted:Something in his past about fiddling funds too. Yeah, I mean he comes across to some extent as a fairly old school union boy with all the connotations that come with it, though I'd hope he sees the writing on the wall
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Jan 1, 2020 22:20
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He actually seems surprisingly good going by his record: https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24963/ian_lavery/wansbeck/votes Pro LGBT, somewhat anti-interventionist, seems fond of taxes on the rich but not fond of taxes on anyone or thing else, against immigration/asylum restrictions, against surveillance. Much better than I was expecting actually. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jan 1, 2020 |
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Jan 1, 2020 22:24
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OwlFancier posted:Something in his past about fiddling funds too.
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Jan 1, 2020 22:25
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About the only thing I can find on the list is that he voted against fracking regulation, which is odd given he was generally pro environmentalist otherwise. Might be a jobs thing. But other than that I couldn't find anything I'd disagree with. It'd be worth seeing whether he changes his position for the leadership campaign but otherwise he might be a good choice.
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Jan 1, 2020 22:29
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I do hope that Corbyn endorses a successor, if only to identify a clear continuity candidate and avoid exploitable left-vote splitting
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Jan 1, 2020 22:31
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ThomasPaine posted:I do hope that Corbyn endorses a successor, if only to identify a clear continuity candidate and avoid exploitable left-vote splitting it's preferential voting so splitting isn't as critical and tbh i'm not sure it's not a kiss of death for the general rn :/
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Jan 1, 2020 22:33
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Endorse Jess Phillips, Jezza.
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Jan 1, 2020 22:34
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OwlFancier posted:About the only thing I can find on the list is that he voted against fracking regulation, which is odd given he was generally pro environmentalist otherwise. Might be a jobs thing. But other than that I couldn't find anything I'd disagree with. Also it doesn't work in UK geology.
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Jan 1, 2020 22:35
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Guavanaut posted:Does fracking really bring that many jobs though? I can see the appeal in the old-school Scargill coal not dole rhetoric, that's whole towns thrown on the scrapheap and it wasn't even for environmental reasons at the time, so there's always the seductive appeal of reopening the pit and finding some use or other for all those black diamonds, but fracking doesn't seem to create as many jobs as, say, building and maintaining a wind farm, or having a major nuclear facility, and looks more like the oil boomtowns of America, a bunch of well paying jobs spring up and then suddenly go away once everything's set up. *shrug* Maybe the rationale is that absent a labour government he'd rather have the jobs under the tories?
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Jan 1, 2020 22:37
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Well a quick peruse of twitter tells me that lavery is appalling all the right people so he has that going for him
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Jan 1, 2020 22:48
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First poll for Labour leader from YouGov.quote:Keir Starmer 31% They then have it 61-39 to Starmer in the final round. quote:Sir Keir has a 22-point lead over his rival in the final round of voting, giving him a comfortable victory if this poll was replicated on election day. Still looks like there's plenty to play for in the hustings over the next few months, but it seems as though just being the continuity candidate isn't going to be enough (nor should it be), and it also looks like Leavers v Remainers is still going to be very important.
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Jan 1, 2020 23:12
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Great, Keir Starmer. How wonderful for us(!)
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Jan 1, 2020 23:15
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The polls on leadership are loving pointless before the hustings, Corbyn was a 100-1 outlier at this point in 2015
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Jan 1, 2020 23:23
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https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/623776993155391488 This was a month after the ballot had been set, mind.
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Jan 1, 2020 23:32
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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We have decided who we would like you to elect, please.
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Jan 1, 2020 23:42
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Personally, I'm going to be casting my vote for anthony b. liar, a great man with no past problems. (this post paid for by the blair4pm campaign)
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Jan 1, 2020 23:53
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WhatEvil posted:TBF it wouldn't be off form for Brenda to live to 105 or something ridiculous, looking at when her mam went out. She's 93 currently. Phil's not lasting more than a few more years though IMO. I do feel sorry for the queen - imagine living to be 93 and facing the prospect first of dying, then having Boris Johnsson speaking at your funeral.
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Jan 1, 2020 23:57
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Trin Tragula posted:First poll for Labour leader from YouGov. quote:The poll was commissioned from YouGov by the Party Members Project, which is funded by the Economic and Social Research Council and run by Professor Tim Bale of Queen Mary University of London quote:Professor Bale said: "It looks as if Labour's overwhelmingly pro-European membership really appreciated Starmer's dogged determination not to flounce out of the shadow cabinet but to hang on in there in order to drag Jeremy Corbyn towards a more pro-Remain (or at least pro-referendum) position." quote:"It certainly doesn't look as if Labour's members are necessarily persuaded that it's time the party had a female leader. They seem more interested in picking the best person for the job, irrespective of gender," he added. quote:"For all the talk of Labour needing some 'Northern grit' in order to help it regain its so-called 'Northern Wall' seats and working class voters, it looks like the membership are more interested in who they think will do the best job than where or what background they come from," said Prof Bale. is it me or is this guy projecting a lil bit also what's this about  "what the world thinks" huh
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Jan 2, 2020 00:19
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Imo a strong remainer like Starmer or Thornberry would actually be pretty loving useful in the coming year for holding the Government the gently caress to to account for the coming Brexit shitstorm. But like gently caress will I support any centrist appeaser whilst the Labour right are making a naked power grab, they know full well that the loss wasn't anything to do with not being centrist enough, I'd have hoped they'd keep their mouths shut and try to unite the party but they haven't, so gently caress 'em. Get the leftiest candidate in to keep control of the party, and organise in the community to get people loving angry and bring the Tories down that way. Electoral politics don't work anyway. Eat the rich, kill your boss, capitalismus delendus est. Everybody join IWW, that's the most radical game in town that isn't trot or tankie, and loving organise.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:31
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ThomasPaine posted:The polls on leadership are loving pointless before the hustings, Corbyn was a 100-1 outlier at this point in 2015 It's not quite the same thing. When Miliband changed the Labour leadership process it was 100% supported by Blair and the shitlibs because everyone in the establishment/media class genuinely truly believed the left was dead and that a Liz Kendall type would romp it, when Corbyn entered the race that assumption was still in place. 5 years later everyone acknowledges that the left exists and probably is factoring that in now. I agree that pre-hustings polls are kind of bollocks though, we don't yet know how the contest will look. thespaceinvader posted:Great, Keir Starmer. He's the preferred candidate of the Remain psychopaths, a ton of his support will be frontloaded. If he's able to grow that support without leaning left I'd be very surprised.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:34
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josh04 posted:You've never had the fabled two-day hangover? It's hateful. I had one of these in uni. It impressed a lifelong change to my drinking habits upon me.  Never let it be said that that institution fails to impart great wisdom.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:39
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Borrovan posted:Imo a strong remainer like Starmer or Thornberry would actually be pretty loving useful in the coming year for holding the Government the gently caress to to account for the coming Brexit shitstorm. If everyone could please resist the urge to lose elections in the pursuit of literally nothing that would be great. Will rejoining the EU be an election winner in five years, no probably not, is rejoining in the second Parliament from now after Johnson deregulates like it's his kink even possible, again probably not, so let's not tie ourselves onto talking about a fake idea that just lost an election.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:39
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By all means ignore the specified timeframe or the specified purpose. Or the entire rest of my post. Not really sure I should engage in good faith given the above tbh but a Johnson Brexit is going to be very very bad, and regardless of what one's opinions are of why we lost so bad* it's the opposition's job to hold the Government to account, and there's going to be a lot of that to do over Brexit. This is one of many reasons why triangulation is always dumb. *it's because they cheated again, open lies and very obviously dodgy social media campaigns funded by unknown sources. Electoral politics doesn't work
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Jan 2, 2020 00:48
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These early polls are mostly "whose name do you recognise" but there's a lot of garbage tendencies in the Labour membership right now to try and hope there is some combination of traits that a Labour leader can have other than being right-wing which lessens the attacks and there are enough of them to wreck the whole project.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:56
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Guys I've got it. It'd take a parachute into a safe seat when the opportunity arises due to by-election, but I know who we need to become Labour leader. Jo; of Swinson.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:58
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Borrovan posted:By all means ignore the specified timeframe or the specified purpose. Or the entire rest of my post. I cut out the rest of your post because I agreed with it but fair point. I don't think focusing on brexit as the lead cause of problems for the next 5 years is a good idea because the government is going to use brexit as a morally defensible smokescreen for a ton of negative domestic changes too. It's like how a small VAT increase means every shop knocks the price of 20 Marlboros up by 50p, they have a quite widely known fake justification for it and brexit is the most useful fake justification ever outside of a legit war or something. We should just focus on living standards and inequality, if we buy into brexit then we look like whiners while also giving them cover.
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Jan 2, 2020 01:14
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Ms Adequate posted:Guys I've got it. It'd take a parachute into a safe seat when the opportunity arises due to by-election, but I know who we need to become Labour leader. she is going to be the next prime minister. the leaflets hath foretold it
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Jan 2, 2020 01:27
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Angepain posted:she is going to be the next prime minister. the leaflets hath foretold it As shite as everything is, the fact that Jo and the entire centrist world managed to gently caress themselves right over and she lost her seat and hosed us into a hard Brexit still has me lolling almost a month later. Like, hard Brexit obviously bad, but that they managed to perfectly cause it is just amazing. 
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Jan 2, 2020 01:37
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One of the main reasons the Tories won is the public is tired of Brexit and wants it to go away. Electing a Labour leader that will spend the next 5 years going on about Brexit is a terrible idea.
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Jan 2, 2020 01:46
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I think I'm going to go lavery if he stands with RLB as second preference, rayner for deputy
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Jan 2, 2020 01:58
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Vitamin P posted:I cut out the rest of your post because I agreed with it but fair point. Sorry, "morally defensible"? "You wanted to leave the EU so we had to sell the NHS", "you wanted to leave the EU so we had to cut workers' rights", "you wanted to leave the EU so you had to lose your job" - these aren't moral. They aren't even defences.
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Jan 2, 2020 02:03
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No, but the Tories and right wing press will pretend they are, which is I think what he was getting at.
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Jan 2, 2020 02:20
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Bobby Deluxe posted:No, but the Tories and right wing press will pretend they are, which is I think what he was getting at. Surveys over the past few years have shown Leavers consider a massive contraction of the economy (including them losing their jobs) and even food rationing as acceptable prices to pay for Brexit, so you can be sure as poo poo the Tories will use it as their excuse to shock therapy the gently caress out of the entire economy and the press will be full of stories about plucky Brits making do and mending to help GLORIOUS BRITANE.
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Jan 2, 2020 02:45
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Surveys over the past few years have shown Leavers consider a massive contraction of the economy (including them losing their jobs) and even food rationing as acceptable prices to pay for Brexit, so you can be sure as poo poo the Tories will use it as their excuse to shock therapy the gently caress out of the entire economy and the press will be full of stories about plucky Brits making do and mending to help GLORIOUS BRITANE. The Leavers saying that were in no small part saying it because they thought showing the slightest lack of commitment to
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Jan 2, 2020 03:17
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Surveys over the past few years have shown Leavers consider a massive contraction of the economy (including them losing their jobs) and even food rationing as acceptable prices to pay for Brexit, so you can be sure as poo poo the Tories will use it as their excuse to shock therapy the gently caress out of the entire economy and the press will be full of stories about plucky Brits making do and mending to help GLORIOUS BRITANE. tbf I literally want these people to just die off from old age and lack of NHS care after 5 years of post Brexit Toryism. these are the boomers who will stand in the way of any social progress and latch onto dumb culture war bullshit because change is scary and minority rights will advance one flag-waving chud heart attack at a time
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Jan 2, 2020 03:41
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Wasn't that the year of the US Civil War? Prescient to say the least. Then again it did abolish slavery there, so maybe it wasn't all bad. However bad things are they could always be much worse. Though I bet Boris will have a good go at showing that.
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Jan 2, 2020 03:58
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ThomasPaine posted:I think I'm going to go lavery if he stands with RLB as second preference, rayner for deputy After watching just 40 seconds of a speech? Maybe wait until the leadership contest actually begins?
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Jan 2, 2020 04:25
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