Barudak posted:

1) The first flip book animation you make
2) Everything else

Pick posted:

I actually find Little Mermaid extremely weak outside the music and Keane's animation. The backgrounds and color palette alone are almost TV level.

Phylodox posted:

I went and re-watched a slew of movies from the Disney renaissance back at the beginning of the pandemic, and Atlantis really just left absolutely no impression on me whatsoever.

The one that surprised me was Pocahontas. Turns out, it's a really gorgeous, charming movie that's absolutely murdered by the fact that it's a horrible interpretation of actual events. If they'd gone the Avatar route and just fictionalized the whole thing, it would have been amazing.

And maybe tone down the goofy animal sidekicks a bit, but that's a constant complaint in most Disney movies from that era.

Phylodox posted:

Because nobody cares about Avatar.

Unless you're talking about the Nickelodeon show, in which case everyone loves it.

Bootleg Trunks posted:

Does ralph Bakshis rotoscoping count as animation

Ghost Leviathan posted:

That seems way too early, especially given it's generally considered to be finally catching up after the dark age of animation in the 50s to the 70s.

Hedrigall posted:

I’ve lost my lion and am sad 😿

Timeless Appeal posted:

I dunno... between the comments about them being uneducated and wasting their money along with being five years off from Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah, it's kind of hard to get a good read on it for me.

paradoxGentleman posted:

I feel like even if I was making an ironic song, I wouldn't put in such directly self-insulting lyrics like "We never learned to read or write", even if it was true, and especially not "We don't know when we get our pay, and when we do we blow our pay away"

Timeless Appeal posted:

Yeah... I feel like the defense is also removing historical context. The racism of Song of the South isn't the same as the racism of the Crows or "What Made the Red Man Red?" The latter is reducing a race to buffoons and playing up stereotypes for laughs. The Crows in many ways are pretty benign on first glance because they're proactive and clever characters. The offensiveness in them exists in their intent as minstrel characters.

The racism of Song of the South is more insidious because Uncle Remus is like the crows an actual character and he's not necessarily bafoonish. But the film exists with a more idealogical current that there is something inherently subservient and animal like about Blacks. It's fair to say that "Happy Roundabout Workers" isn't doing the same whitewashing of slavery and sharecropping as "Zip-a-Dee Doo Dah" does. There is an acknowledgement of the workers as doing hard work, but the context of the song also acknowledges a sort of hopelessness for them.They cannot read or write. They waste all their money. They only want to sleep and eat. On top of that, they're being depicted similarly to the golem like henchman from Pinocchio.

Timeless Appeal posted:

I don't mean this as offense, but I think we're going to inevitably talk past each other on this point. Song of the South isn't obtuse in its view of Blackness through Uncle Remus as a character. The actual Briar Rabbit stuff in a vacuum is genuinely considered fine outside of the overallt thorniness of Harris's appropriation of black folklore. But I think that Song of the South has a clear view of Blacks that while not aggressive, sees them as naturally caretakers and workers. I think that combined with coming off the since censored racist imagery in Fantasia, its hard for me to swallow your lead.

quote:

I also just don't think much thought went into Dumbo at all.

Timeless Appeal posted:

I don't know man, I'm not really going to fully respond to this post because your last post was talking about how you have not seen Song of the South and blindly stated that we cannot infer any viewpoint on race which is silly, and now we're apparently talking with expertise on it? Death of the author is a lens to view art, it's not movie discussion law. You can absolutely use another text that gives an idealized version of life for Blacks in the South to inform your understanding of another text that includes Black or Black coded characters.

Timeless Appeal posted:

No, that's a mischaracterization.

I'm not just saying that it's unclear. It's unclear because someone were trying to present the scene as this universally brutal segment in which the workers can only be read as unhappy victims expressing their displeasure. That's not true. Dumbo is having fun. The other Elephants are sometimes laughing. The few animals who actually help, the camels are also not unhappy. It's unclear because the lyrics of the song are contradictory. But it is rainy and dark and there is a juxtaposition against the very childish train. I do understand how it can be viewed as an ironic song in which the the workers are in on the joke, but the self-depreciation betrays that a bit. The original reading was being way too selective.

And I'm not saying Song of the South is racist so this is racist. I'm saying that we can contextualize a film from 80 years ago in a larger body of work and the time. So when somebody is looking at it and says, "Well... they're clearly being ironic because who would be happy?" then we can look at this other movie the same studio made a few years later that is literally implying Blacks are happy with the state of slavery and reconstruction. That when we use comparisons between Blacks and animals to make our point we can look at this other movie that more directly makes that comparison between animals and humans. Because it informs us.

Timeless Appeal posted:

Look man, your original post was scolding for not judging what's on screen. I understand the images you posted as paintings evoke something very clear, but its not consistent as a film. Like your read on Dumbo as a slave parable doesn't prove your point about the song being ironic, it proves mine. Dumbo is a blissfully ignorant worker, only scared when faced with death, and wins by becoming the best slave. If Dumbo is in parallel with the Black workers than the song isn't ironic. Our main character literally is a happy hearted roustabout.

And a bunch of white artists comparing their relatively privileged positions to that of animals and black men is racist.

Neon Noodle posted:

rich uncle skeleton

fauna posted:

fauna posted:

the lovely heavy traffic, my absolute favourite entry in the bakshiverse

Timeless Appeal posted:

Pinnochio's hella bawdy.

paradoxGentleman posted:

I feel like we're talking about different things. Surely you're not referring to Disney's Pinocchio? How is that one bawdy?

Timeless Appeal posted:

There's also more butts from the kid being spanked to the can can dancer puppets flipping up their skirts.

It's not Fantasia which is like 70% Disney artists finally getting to show off all they learned at their nude modeling sessions and using the high-browness to justify drawing naked ladies or Bambi focuses in on Thumper's horny face. But it definitely has the adults more in mind than Snow White.

Hedrigall posted:

And all the Lord of the Rings movies you love! But they’re the animated ones