D U N C: suks to be yueh

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > D U N C: suks to be yueh

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

I've read the first three books for the first time over the last few months, I'm getting downright hype about this movie.

Speaking of gently caress scenes, I think it would be really funny if the sietch orgies turned out to be extremely awkward and goofy cuddle puddles where basically no one is in control of their physical faculties and it only makes any sense in their shared conscious experience of it.

# ¿ Jun 8, 2021 10:46

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 18:46

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Do the No Covid tickets cost extra?

# ¿ Jul 26, 2021 07:27

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

drat, sounds like Frank Herbert is a total hack who ripped off GRRM

# ¿ Jul 30, 2021 22:33

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Timby posted:

I believe it's been confirmed that Feyd is not in Part 1.

But who's playing him though

# ¿ Aug 6, 2021 18:38

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

I've started to think maybe the hardest part of adapting Dune is the action. So much of the imagery requires epic scale, insane visuals, etc., but then you get to the way fights work and everything turns into a kung-fu scene where multiple characters are making decisions in a tenth of a second and someone kicks someone so hard that they die instantly. Honestly this is the thing I'm most worried about with Villeneuve's version... has he ever really tackled a fight scene like this? The brief glimpses of melee combat we've seen in the trailers have felt kind of basic to me, and I think it will lose a lot if the punching and sword fighting feels generic and sterile rather than visceral and crucial to revealing the way the characters think.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2021 21:46

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Hodgepodge posted:

so you're saying they need to borrow from anime to adapt this

Unironically... kinda? I do wonder if animation would be the best medium to capture the wildly different requirements of Dune stuff.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2021 02:41

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Blood Boils posted:

Yeah Alia grows increasingly depraved and cuckolds Duncan Idaho until Leto 2 tells her to kill herself

It's a fun book

Also the way you really know she's lost the battle against the Baron's memories is that she starts to get extremely obese like him.

# ¿ Aug 12, 2021 08:31

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Yeah superheroes are so cringe! My boy Paul Atreides who has magic psychic kung fu powers on the other hand...

# ¿ Sep 5, 2021 03:05

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Excuse me, Iron Man is also Hitler

# ¿ Sep 5, 2021 06:01

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Jo Joestar posted:

It's the Baron, it's not hard to guess.

The Baron just lying there, blocking the path like Snorlax

# ¿ Sep 6, 2021 03:19

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Alchenar posted:

You can definitely read Dune as story of a guy being aware he's being cynically set up to be a white saviour and then deciding to earnestly go along with it.

I think that's a great part of what is subversive about it. Leto II later similarly recreates an epically convoluted justification for "I will do insanely bad things...... because I am a great man who must make the hard decisions!"

It's not just about the "hero's journey" being a scam, but that Paul, knowing that, still falls into the trap of wielding the power. Whereas Star Wars uses its influences from Dune to ultimately have Luke make the opposite choice and just say "gently caress this!"

# ¿ Sep 9, 2021 03:45

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

AnEdgelord posted:

hes perfectly willing to let Leto II do it though

He's not exactly happy about it, and I'm not sure he's capable of stopping him by that point

# ¿ Sep 10, 2021 04:23

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Hasselblad posted:

It would be more like potential drug manufacturers not bothering to investigate where this super drug that provides prescience and extends life comes from. Did they all just shrug and accept that it magically appears on top of the sand on a single planet with only 2 notable life forms?

I think it's that the people benefiting from the spice become immediately locked into the cycle of prescience constantly leading them to short-term rewards like a carrot dangling in front of them, at the expense of other considerations (along with the physical addiction). Prescience is a trap after all.

Martman fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Sep 14, 2021

# ¿ Sep 14, 2021 13:06

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

shrike82 posted:

lukewarm on the movie - felt like they had to rush to squeeze in scenes from the book and you barely had the time to take in a scene before they had to jump to the next one

ends on a fairly meh scene too

clearly a Hyperion stan here to poo poo on competing sci-fi, get out!!

# ¿ Sep 16, 2021 11:43

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Libluini posted:

I don't even understand what's the problem with those people, no-one is ranting about how great fast food chains are just because people complain about bad nutrition. But suddenly, with movies it's their identity at threat??? Who cares if your Marvel-movie is just a very expensive Troll 2, you can still enjoy it

Does anyone have that insanely cringe tweet chain (or whatever) where someone was claiming that Marvel movies Literally Saved Cinema? It was like "People forget that in the early 2000s, cinema was a dying art... but then Disney showed up and said, 'No... we care.'"

Some of the fans have to convince themselves that what they're consuming is the Highest Quality product available, if it wasn't it would be bullshit.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2021 12:27

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Part of Herbert's big statement about grand movements is that they become runaway freight-trains and it doesn't necessarily matter what the original intent was.

Like, whatever initial reasons justified the backlash against AI, once it becomes The Jihad of course it's gonna result in angry mobs smashing calculators with baseball bats.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2021 04:27

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

In the world of Dune the Amish might run a whole planet or something, proportionally.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2021 05:48

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

AnEdgelord posted:

There is an incredibly cringeworthy rant about liberals that comes out of nowhere in one of the last two books

I recall some pretty straightforwardly on-point comments from Leto II basically saying liberalism leads to aristocracy and that there's something gross about hiding hatred as opposed to the "in your face" reactionary or whatever (not that the latter is better). I dunno it seemed surprisingly reasonable... maybe I haven't reached some weird part in Chapterhouse

The real cringe is Frank trying way too hard and in very weird ways to Figure Out The Gays

Martman fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Sep 26, 2021

# ¿ Sep 26, 2021 15:00

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Also Duncan is the quintessential Chad to Leto's ultimate Virgin, and Leto is kind of obsessed with his own contradictions and the displacement of his sexuality

# ¿ Oct 7, 2021 02:30

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Strom Cuzewon posted:

Isn't there a bit where Duncan gets all affronted by two of the Fish Speakers being lesbian and Moneo gives him a condescending "I think you've got some real growing up to do"? Feels almost like Herbert acknowledging the homophobic elements in the Baron and apologising/back pedalling a little.

Duncan definitely goes on a boomer rant against the gays and is shut down, but the problem is that the responses against him also get into very strange biotruthy territory. Like, there's a thing about how "male armies are fundamentally rapist" vs. women armies that you can almost see there being a point regarding cultural conditioning of males, violence, etc., but then it starts to speculate about gay stuff being a behavior that arises out of or in response to that rather than simply an orientation. I do think there are points throughout the series where Frank kind of winks at the audience and admits that he doesn't really know poo poo about biotruths and is just coming up with ideas that are interesting to him, but that part is definitely not great given his (alleged, but pretty clear) real life discomfort with homosexuality.

# ¿ Oct 13, 2021 01:05

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Yadoppsi posted:

As a queer man myself I was never that bothered by those parts in God Emperor- if Herbert asked a mainstream psychologist from the 60's "whats up with homosexuality? What causes it?" Academic opinion of the time wouldn't be much different from what he wrote.

I brought it up in the GBS thread I think, forgive me if I'm repeating myself, but from reading about his gay son it sounds like Frank had some very deep personal discomfort with homosexuality that seriously strained their relationship (and that's maybe a nice way of putting it).

And I'm not disagreeing with you or anything. I think he had feelings that were probably shared by an awful amount of dudes born in literally 1920, and his stuff about homosexuality in God Emperor does seem like he's genuinely grasping to try to make sense of it.

# ¿ Oct 13, 2021 08:40

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

I think the shields' strange behavior generally justifies the quirks of large-scale combat tactics in this movie. They clearly make most projectiles useless, and while their behavior during melee combat feels a bit inconsistent, I think that actually supports the idea that the audience only partly understands the shields.

I definitely stand by my pre-release concerns that the martial arts would be hard to capture. imo when people talk about Dune being unfilmable, they often gloss over the fact that on top of all of its psychedelic sci-fi weirdness it should be a completely legitimate martial arts action movie, and it's kind of impossible to expect that of this kind of production.

Ultimately I was surprised how much I liked it. Most of the tweaks were not just ok but really effective ways to focus the plot (especially the Jamis vision stuff, I had to look up that dude because I realized I loved him in Too Old to Die Young), but I was pretty ok with the things that I found to be straight-up compromises. The martial arts stuff is kind of undeniably a bit watered down imo, but I'm ok with the result. And I may be weird but the Baron is the other compromise from my point of view. Say what you will about his portrayal in the book being problematic, but he's fun. The book baron is literally the evilest dude ever to exist but he has huge George Costanza energy at the same time and it really adds an amazing counterpoint to the overall thread of questioning the "serious hero" narrative. I think you could absolutely attempt to craft a Vladimir Harkonnen for this movie who is not homophobic but still carries the same kind of absurd paranoid scheming villain energy in fun and wacky ways, but it feels like they just gave up on it. He was still cool as kind of a weird Northern European mob boss, and I understand the motivations to simplify his character, but it was probably the thing I missed the most.

# ¿ Oct 29, 2021 11:01

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Horizon Burning posted:

have you seen the miniseries? it feels like they had the adaptation of the baron you're picturing. this isn't a slight, he's by far the best part of it.

No, I haven't... but that does sound good. A lot of aspects of it have seemed kinda lame but once I finally finish Chapterhouse I may be desperate for more Dune media. (don't worry I will never read the Brian stuff)

I remembered, I loved the part where Paul and Jessica are running from the sandworm. We already know Jessica is pregnant at that point, but Paul is the one who stumbles... and Jessica just straight up runs ahead without even considering stopping to help him. Can't remember if that was in the book, but it worked as a great gag on tired movie cliches.

Martman fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Oct 29, 2021

# ¿ Oct 29, 2021 23:23

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Her eyes aren't even blue, epic fail

# ¿ Oct 30, 2021 11:39

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Actually one 2.5 hour movie for half a book is plenty.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2021 12:04

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

This is how you get too much involvement from The Ones That Shall Not Be Named.

The secret Space Jews?

# ¿ Oct 31, 2021 13:15

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Mom, you made me a freak... you know I hate spoilers about the awesome wars I'm gonna do!!

# ¿ Nov 1, 2021 13:55

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Steve Yun posted:

Gimme a Dune dating sim

Marry Chani? YES [ ] NO [ ]

quote:

Marry Chani?

>No

But thou must.

Marry Chani?

# ¿ Nov 2, 2021 13:24

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

From a Dune wiki:

quote:

Shaddam Corrino IV was a slim and elegant man, with red hair, a thin face, and cold eyes. The aforementioned face and eyes reminded the Baron Harkonnen of Duke Leto Atreides I - Shaddam had "that same look of the predatory bird."

Domhnall Gleeson, to continue his movie pairing with Oscar Isaac? (well... except for... you know, the timing, but maybe in a flashback)

# ¿ Nov 4, 2021 02:47

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

I just feel like Shaddam, and ultimately the entire Corrino family, are best expressed as kind of disappointing and lamer than you'd expect.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2021 03:09

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Grandpa Palpatine posted:

I just realized that the film doesn't even hint at Lady Jessica being the Baron's daughter. That's probably for the better? I mean he straight up wants to murder her by leaving her to the sand worms.

As far as I remember, basically no one is actually aware of this fact and it really only comes to light through Paul's powers developing right?

e: Wait, that obviously wouldn't jibe with the Bene Gesserit's breeding scemes and plans for Jessica... I guess they definitely knew, but it is definitely only revealed through visions.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2021 03:13

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Yeah I completely forgot about that, lol

# ¿ Nov 4, 2021 07:56

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

ruddiger posted:

Emperor�s gonna be sting guys, quit playing.

but, the wrestling one

# ¿ Nov 4, 2021 18:28

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

Jewish people have had a secret society that secretly lives in space and infiltrates organizations from behind the shadows.

Not some stand in allegory the way a bunch of dune stuff is allegorical for various groups in the middle east, just regular old space jews. sneakin around, infiltrating organizations secretly and controlling things, using secret jewish magic they didn't tell anyone about. (which they feel the BG copied from them)

This is just from Chapterhouse though. Or did Brian go way further with the Secret Space Jews stuff

e:f,b dats wat I get for not refreshing the page

# ¿ Nov 5, 2021 17:56

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

davidspackage posted:

Bob of Dune

Brigadune

# ¿ Nov 5, 2021 20:22

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

gohmak posted:

Stop after you read The Fall of Hyperion.

Like, stop reading Dan Simmons entirely after that. Not just that series.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2021 02:06

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

bushisms.txt posted:

Do the books go more into Duncan and Gurney's relationship? In the movie at least, I was sure they were a couple.

Yeah they're a couple... a couple of badasses. In the books though Duncan is genuinely homophobic, and is the ultimate super saiyan sexer of women

They kind of have a special bond over being two of the people with the most intense hatred of the Harkonnens in the universe, but beyond that I don't remember them having much of a vibe goin on

# ¿ Nov 9, 2021 13:28

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

Isn't the Kwizats Haderachs just the guy that can have all the male and female memories? Wasn't that the actual point of the thousands of years of breeding and all the other powers are fake/incidental?

Like the mothers could see genetic history all back through all their female ancestors but having male memories was too spooky, so they need to make a special male vessel that that could handle all the male memories without going crazy AND get the female memories, then they would have twice as much memories and presumably be the smartest.

The Dune wiki makes explicit reference to the differences in genetic memory being strictly tied to the X and Y chromosomes, but I wonder if that was something... "clarified" by Brian. As I recall when Frank starts going off about the "male" and "female" aspects of the universe it sounds much more vague, yin yangish even.

Also in God Emperor I think I recall Leto starting to comment on the fundamental sexual forces of the universe or whatever, and then he throws in a kind of hilarious "by the way I dunno if any of this is even really accurate, just doin my best here." Maybe I was reading into it too much and I'd love to find the quote I'm thinking of, but I definitely got the impression Frank was walking back any implication that he was talking about literal differences between men and women.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2021 17:49

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Once Paul embraces his role, the tone and pacing shift drastically all the way through Dune Messiah. It starts jumping around in kind of confusing ways, but I think this is used to emphasize that Paul is now losing himself to the current of this action hero narrative. We're kinda thinking "wait, they're suddenly blowing up the wall... He's already emperor wtf?" And then there's an even more massive skip throwing you into the deep end in Messiah. It worked really well for me when they finally do the big rug-pull moment in Messiah where Paul explains very literally that he has become Worse Than Hitler by a huge margin.

And it's not that you can't see any reveal like that coming at all, I just thought it was a fun way to play with our desire to see the hero story go well while leaving so much unsaid that we start gradually getting less comfortable with what's going on.

I dunno I don't find that excerpt to be particularly bad, but I do remember feeling that things were suddenly changing in very odd ways at that point in the book.

Martman fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Nov 11, 2021

# ¿ Nov 11, 2021 09:35

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 18:46

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Piter, on your way out send in that delectable waifu... my previous body pillow is all worn out

# ¿ Nov 12, 2021 16:29

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > D U N C: suks to be yueh

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