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This movie kept me the gently caress in my seat. Goddamn, that's a big screen experience.
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Dec 6, 2021 13:14
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Back on Dune movie topic, read elsewhere an interesting take on the movie's version of the Baron: His use of the antigravity implants combined with a massive robe that touches the floor even when he's near the ceiling makes him able to project a massive presence- and look a little like a sandworm himself. As well as foreshadowing the fate of his great-grandson, it seems to more readily symbolise the power he represents over Arrakis to the point of resembling its most important inhabitants.
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Dec 10, 2021 12:46
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Halloween Jack posted:I would've enjoyed it more if the ending wasn't a setup for a Part II which is about as likely to be made as a remake of The Day the Clown Cried. Going through old pages here, but this seems like a helluva case of 'be careful what you wish for' given modern Hollywood. Hell, apparently in the 90s there were talks of a remake starring Robin Williams.
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Dec 11, 2021 15:19
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Halloween Jack posted:My assumption has always been that those two planets managed to achieve some kind of global bourgeois capitalism before they were reintegrated into the Imperium following the Butlerian Jihad. So they're allowed to keep their weird technocratic society and develop technology for the Imperium. They're adjacent to the feudal system, like the Guild and BG, but less important. Until God-Emperor when they suddenly become really important. While I'm also digging up old posts; suddenly realising this is probably where Warhammer 40k, while it was plundering Dune in general, got the idea for the Adeptus Mechanicus, though in that setting they're literally right next door to the imperial core. Technically, they break a shitload of core spiritual rules and run their society extremely differently from the order that's brutally enforced by every other aspect of the Imperium, but their expertise and the stuff they make is too important for anyone to actually make a fuss about it. (Though the Ixians and Tleilax are more making nice toys and conveniences for the nobles rather than the crucial importance of the AdMech having a monopoly on advanced technology) And in both cases, the society-wide hypocrisy that they represent is very much the point, that they're distrusted and disdained but at the same time relied upon and their creations trusted implicitly. The running theme also with people like Mentats, Suk doctors, Truthsayers etc is that the Butlerian Jihad has ended up a Pyrrhic victory because of its core principles; it's not and never was about Skynet, but 'machine thinking' that makes humans obsolete; but given the roles of thinking machines were absolutely required for an interstellar society to function, they just ended up turning people into machines as well. (ironically taking 'computer' back to its old meaning as a person with a job) The Bene Gesserit breeding programs also result in this, using noble lines as basically ways of keeping track of key bloodlines where you can see them and can pair up, winnow and manipulate as necessary, controlling and inbreeding like show dogs. Kinda the whole theme of God-Emperor of Dune is Leto II recognising all the contradictions and hypocrisies and basically making the galaxy smoke the whole pack.
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Dec 11, 2021 16:36
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Another big reason why Paul changes the game is that he actually controls Arrakis. The comparison earlier of the royal palace to the Green Zone in Iraq is apt, as it's made clear that the Harkonnens despite their long regime are still basically just an occupying force on Arrakis right up til they're made to leave, constantly clashing with the Fremen. Hence why the Atreides upon being given the fief immediately go about trying to form an alliance with the Fremen, getting an asset the Harkonnens don't have. Once Paul (spoilers, but not really) becomes the undisputed ruler of the Fremen, he becomes basically impossible to dethrone by any standards, hence the whole events of Messiah.
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Dec 14, 2021 04:56
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The United States posted:It's too bad Dennis Hopper is too old and too dead because he would have been great as well There's a King Koopa joke in there somewhere.
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Dec 14, 2021 09:50
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Feels like this article is missing a lot of things; that Frank Herbert's politics were a lot more idiosyncratic, that his inspirations for Dune are a lot more specific than just general Islam and Middle Eastern history, and seems to have only seen the movie and maybe read the first book, not looked at the sequels and how they deal with it. At least they do get that Paul is both TE Lawrence and the Prophet Muhammed in his various acts and roles.
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Jan 1, 2022 11:17
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No Mods No Masters posted:The spice must flow is from the david lynch adaptation. Say what you will about that film but it's a durable catchphrase The Litany Against Fear also. ed: vvv My mistake. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Jan 2, 2022 |
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Jan 2, 2022 11:42
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Really is funny how that specific adaptation of Dune ended up basically creating a whole new genre- Dune 2 for those not in the know is basically the original template for the real-time strategy game, with Command and Conquer being one of the heavier borrowings from it. (Just using totally-not-GI Joe and Cobra instead)
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Jan 2, 2022 16:46
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vessbot posted:Said Wikipedia, There's an Anakin Skywalker joke in there somewhere. And that's how a lot of video games work, iterative design combined with taking advantage of what new hardware can do. Genre becomes a very funny thing in an interactive medium.
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Jan 2, 2022 17:28
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Halloween Jack posted:In the past year or so I've noticed a huge spike in literally sophomoric writing from people who are supposed to be professional academics, journalists, and/or people who have a writing job because they can write. If you're rich enough, The Atlantic will publish your dumbest nephew. The only people who've been allowed to become journalists have been failchildren ever since it started being all about unpaid internships.
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Jan 4, 2022 03:45
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DeimosRising posted:That’s funny, I’ve always thought the setting of dune, with its absurd economics and warfare, seemed very small. Notionally there are trillions of people or whatever, but they lose a war to a couple thousand mega ninjas. Incidentally that’s also how I feel about lotr, where the paucity of economics makes the whole thing obviously fake. It’s confusing to me that these two books are so famous for their “world building” That's kinda on purpose, I'm pretty sure. Like, the ranks and organisation of the noble houses is deliberately meant to emulate feudal lords with their fiefdoms rather than planetary civilisations, and probably emphasising how the rulers are still basically playing war games with these people with little regard for their wellbeing. Also that warfare between houses is deliberately limited and almost ritualised, with the extremely high prices the Guild charges meant to be a bottleneck for how large-scale warfare can get, also emphasising how surprising it is that the Harkonnens AND the Emperor go all in on crushing the Atreides, spending the equivalent of decades of GDP on it. Grendels Dad posted:I'm not a history buff but numerical superiority seems to only be important when fighting another army and not when you occupy stuff. One single mega ninja would be enough to intimidate hundreds of people into obedience, that's how conquering stuff works. Also yeah, having sheer numbers can be helpful but a lot about advanced warfare is force multiplication, and merely throwing bodies at a problem only gets you so far. Like, the whole reason the Emperor is afraid of the Atreides is because they have troops who are well trained and loyal, almost as much as his own personal death troops, and not needing an entire nightmare prison planet to train them on. While the Fremen have massive numbers on Dune, lots of experience and a huge home turf advantage.
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Jan 4, 2022 13:07
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The Fremen aren't just using knives. A big point is that Paul explicitly moves the Imperial seat of power to Arrakis, cutting out the middleman, and emphasising that he has the galaxy by the balls because he controls the source of the magical space cocaine that the entire society needs to function.
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Jan 5, 2022 12:23
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Alchenar posted:I think the only way a 13 year jihad with a few million Fremen at most gets to those numbers is if only a tiny fraction of worlds openly rebelled and they got very nuked to oblivion. IIRC that's pretty much what happened, the Fremen legions are explicitly noticed to have flat out glassed some planets.
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Jan 5, 2022 12:40
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Alchenar posted:I don't think there are more than a few offhand sentences about it in the original trilogy. The point is it makes more sense to see the Jihad as more a series of hyper-brutal put-downs of isolated rebellions, rather than a reconquista that spread outwards from Arrakis and 40k style had to pacify every single planet in its way. Oh yeah, iirc the point is that the Emperor was quite tolerant of religion and culture diversity so long as people paid their taxes and random isolated monasteries weren't causing him any trouble, while the Fremen could not be talked out of brutally suppressing anything going against the word of Muad'Dib.
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Jan 5, 2022 13:00
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vessbot posted:Eating scenes in D U N C rivaling mafia movies I've said before, but a LOT about feudal power structures makes sense when you realise they work almost exactly the same way as the Mafia, and are often directly related. (or at least, both are based on the Roman Empire's norms) Vaguely related; one of the big themes of Dune that's almost too on the nose but rarely noted is dehumanisation, the reduction of thinking, feeling human beings to their raw utility, and the results of that when people forget they're still human on top of all that. From the Bene Gesserit's breeding programs to the Suk doctor, everything with the gholas, mentats... not even getting into the big irony that the Butlerian Jihad clearly backfired in the worst possible ways as 'machine thinking' without machines was taken to its most horrific logical conclusion. It flows very well into the 'space feudalism' themes, given under such a system people are explicitly reduced to resources and functions; most people are serfs who exist to labour, women exist to bear children, soldiers exist to make war. The Bene Gesserit explicitly exploit such a system by appealing to its base impulses encouraged in its ruling class, but even they are big offenders. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Jan 22, 2022 |
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Jan 22, 2022 07:20
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Blood Boils posted:He didn't avoid it because Paul is honestly pretty lazy It is pretty much text that powerful prescients tend to suffer from ennui and depression in part because everything becomes so literally predictable for them. And been pointed out that they get pretty giddy and excited when things start to go off the rails, even if it results in their death, because it's finally something new happening. Reminded of Jake Long: American Dragon of all things, which has a pair of oracle twins- one only foresees good things happening, the other only forsees bad things. The former is a dour goth who's used to having every pleasant surprise thoroughly spoiled for her beforehand, the latter is incredibly cheerful and friendly because any moment she's not seeing horrible things happening is fantastic in comparison.
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Jan 29, 2022 17:08
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Slower pacing and not desperately trying to keep the audience's attention with quips, probably.
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Feb 22, 2022 08:05
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I think it's probably very much a deliberate choice to make DUNC look like it does now, as a deliberate contrast to what everyone expects out of sci-fi for the last couple decades. The whole Space Pope aesthetic of the Guild in particular I think is basically the highlight because it so demonstrates what they're going for. (and I think it says a lot about a Dune adaptation in how they handle the Navigators) The choice of uniforms in particular looking like early 20th century Europe, the palace on Arrakis being like an overgrown bunker (and someone compared it to the Green Zone in Iraq, a fortified holdout by foreign occupiers where the only natives allowed are servants) and the mix of smooth lines, curves and minimalism that makes the extravagant elements stand out all the more. poo poo doesn't work the same way it does in Star Wars, or Star Trek, or real life, and everything's meant to emphasise that.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:01
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kalel posted:our only hope is Warner Bros playing the part of the evil capitalist machine and forcing DV to release a longer cut against his will Ah, the ol' reverse snyder
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Feb 28, 2022 13:45
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DarkSol posted:For the people complaining that Denis Villeneuve's treatment of Dune is slow, all you're doing is making me wish that Andrei Tartovsky had done one before his untimely demise. That would be absolutely glacial in its pacing and somehow involve a horse, but I'd be there for it. Given the bullfighting a horse seems not particularly out of place. Hell, can picture Paul and Leto having conversations on horseback.
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Feb 28, 2022 16:37
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Jessica going 'Use the Voice' literally over breakfast like she's teaching a little Paul to say 'please' is kind of a hilarious bit. And it demonstrates how she treats it and wants Paul to treat it- to be able and willing to use it casually, because it very much can mean the difference between life and death. Bene Gesserit don't do fair fights.
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Mar 1, 2022 12:39
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Jessica's always been my favourite character in the series probably because she's basically Cool Mom Space Witch. She feels like one of the most human characters in the series, probably helps that her own relationships with others and her own agency are majorly important themes that set everything in motion.
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Mar 2, 2022 06:46
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If you're gonna do a two-parter I feel it makes sense to introduce Feyd in the second, as an explicit contrast to everything built up about the Harkonnens thus far- being presented to the audience in the same way he's meant to be presented to the people of Arrakis. I bet his intro scene will be set up to make it hard to believe he's really a Harkonnen. Also given the storytelling approach of the movies- which thus far seems to have been quite the success in getting people interested and understanding the story even if they're not at all familiar with the books- it makes sense to do the setup for the broad strokes of the characters before you start getting into the implications. Part 2 strikes me as likely to start taking apart and knocking down the thematic dominoes that Part One set up.
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Mar 19, 2022 07:08
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Thing is about DUNC is that I think it understands that a lot of the book's content and style doesn't really work for movies, so they instead use content and style that does work for movies- hence all the visual language, establishing shots, and the things added, changed and invented for the film are all contributing to establishing the nature of the story, the setting and the characters. Basically, I think you can give them a little credit in finding a way to incorporate stuff we haven't seen yet in a way that works. Probably.
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Mar 19, 2022 14:34
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Given the whole brutalist Cenobite freak approach with the Harkonnens, I really wanna see what they do visually with Feyd.
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Mar 21, 2022 12:13
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Gonna be lol if 2une ends up a Return of the King style sweep.
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Mar 28, 2022 12:18
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I just love the whole design and look of the spice harvesters, they have that satisfying style of heavy machinery that sees lots of use with lots of ridiculous and probably unnecessary cool bits like treads and the balloon attachment. (Comes to mind, of course that's the point of failure during the harvester sequence given how unnecessarily complex and precise it is) I suppose it comes off as quite a contrast to the style of the other technology; the dragonfly-like Ornithopters being all smooth and sleek, and the 2001 Monolith style Atreides ships.
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Apr 24, 2022 17:41
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Not entirely sure whether this is satire or canon... It's basically the Adeptus Mechanicus. Honestly, it might work, especially given Earth apparently got remade as a nature preserve- the remnants of the cradle of human civilisation might have been buried or destroyed unless you know where to look. The whole point of the timeline is that so far in the future, most humans find it difficult to comprehend the scale of how much has changed, and also they've lived in a feudal empire so long they have trouble thinking of things like nation-states on individual planets, different systems of government, and how relatively short-lived empires and nations were in the olden days. Like, it's supposed to show first and foremost that they have a very poor idea of their own ancient history.
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Apr 30, 2022 06:18
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Failed Imagineer posted:Florence Pugh owns, sorry about your catgirl fantasies We gotta wait for the sequels for those.
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May 21, 2022 03:13
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I keep mentally mixing up Christopher Walken and William Dafoe.
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May 23, 2022 13:43
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I don't think it's necessarily even subtext in any of the books even that the Fremen's attitude to water conservation is as much or more about principle than practical concerns or cold hard math, even if the latter is how it started. Hell, even makes sense given how the Fremen are able to function as a society. Kinda the whole point is that they are people, who act on emotional and personal reasoning, not beep boop machine logic, and that is literally the entire reason Paul is able to do anything at all.
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Aug 1, 2022 12:36
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Pretty sure the Atreides troops are skilled and dangerous because they're actually disciplined, motivated AND loyal as gently caress because the Duke puts effort into their welfare and making people like him, and attracts some of the best talent from across the galaxy, while the Harkonnens treat everyone like poo poo and their troops are probably poo poo at everything but war crimes. While the Sarduakar are the best of the best from a planet whose only real export is soldiers, and the Fremen have to live an incredibly disciplined, dangerous and violent lifestyle by default. Environmental, maybe, but also material conditions and context at play.
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Oct 14, 2022 02:57
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I'm also reminded again that there's an episode of The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy which is basically a whole reference specifically to God-Emperor of Dune.
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Oct 14, 2022 03:36
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Aces High posted:Ah, so the Fremen are Ukrainians and the Harkonnen are Russians, checks out. You probably accidentally have it about right there because the Harkonnens are literally based on Imperial Russia, the whole premise is loosely based on a war in the Caucasus, especially a book written about it. I forget the details, but the vibe is absolutely that the expendable and poorly trained soldiers of a decadent and cruel superpower running up against hardened warriors with a huge home turf advantage. (Of course, a very familiar theme in the decades since Dune) Sardukar don't necessarily have a direct counterpart, though they might be Janissaries. Or Australians.
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Oct 14, 2022 05:12
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Wafflecopper posted:lmao your average Australian is at best on a par with your average American in terms of combat ability Australians actually used to have a reputation for being incredibly good soldiers, and y'know, prison colony.
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Oct 14, 2022 06:58
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Grendels Dad posted:Most of those prisoners got there for petty theft/being poor, it wasn't like your average American prison where everybody is in a gang and there is lots of fighting. While I get you, there's A: no reason to assume that everyone sent to Salsa Secundus actually deserved it, especially for a setting that's basically medieval in culture, and 2: Australia actually did have a full on Wild West period that arguably went on longer and was more violent than America's. And historically, I'm talking World Wars era, and supposedly Vietnam.
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Oct 14, 2022 08:15
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:I feel like this gets glossed over a lot, but the Fremen aren't some kind of noble savages that Paul magically converts into a force capable of fighting and taking on an entire galaxy - they're a people who within two (admittedly long) generations have amassed water at industrial scales on a planet everyone thinks has absolutely none of it, while sustaining a multi-million person society in a very harsh environment, and they're a people who have spent thousands of years fleeing persecution and actual war-crimes that even Harkonnen would say "Hey now.." committed against them. Yeah, the Fremen's whole deal is that absolutely everyone underestimates them, with the Atreides being the only partial exception- Leto I is very aware that they're being moved to Arrakis where they're stripped of almost all their strengths, and their only real hope to secure the planet like they do Caladan is to actually make friends with the locals. Surviving on Arrakis requires not only incredible personal discipline and a terribly pragmatic and careful lifestyle but also use of advanced and specialised technology, and optimum use of their environment. Let alone how they're able to use and even weaponise sandworms.
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Oct 15, 2022 06:59
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I still say a Dune stage musical worthy of Troy McClure.
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Nov 3, 2022 06:22
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Trying to fool a precognitive is kind of a dumb idea in general. Even when he's actively trying to get himself assassinated, the best Leto II can do is spend ten thousand years making everyone in the galaxy including his inner circle and the guy he keeps cloning every time he dies desperately want to kill him until someone finally manages it through a ludicrous scheme. Even moreso than the laza tigers.
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Nov 5, 2022 08:44
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