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Carbon dioxide posted:Now that Nat has the Screw Attack, this game has the pseudo-Screw attack right, and Nat never found about it because he never uses charged shots unless forced to? It actually doesn't hurt you if the enemy's weak enough to die from it, but it always consumes the charge. It's actually one of the techniques shown off in the demo reel if you let the title screen loop a couple of times.
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Mar 14, 2020 15:04
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Yeah using the stick for movement can't be making the Space Jump easier. As for the thing, go with the canon ending, especially if Fusion may happen eventually
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Mar 14, 2020 15:25
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Don't tell Nat anything.
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Mar 14, 2020 15:33
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I feel like Nat's too quick to dismiss elements he doesn't personally like or find intuitive as bad / outdated game design. I find the space jump as tricky as the next person and it always takes me a minute to get out of draygon's room, but at that point I've got it and it literally is the ability to fly, provided you don't go into a standing jump on accident. Conversely, I've never gotten the hang of wall jumps or the grapple beam beyond the necessary and Nat has no trouble, and no problem, with them at all. I wonder how Nat will react to Fusion's most common complaint. It sounds like he won't take issue with it, but being what it is, to the degree that it is, I'm not certain. Symphony vs Super Metroid is an interesting question. Symphony has a lot of points in its favor, the castle is a more interesting environment, your equipment is more varied, it looks and sounds amazing, but on any play after maybe the first it's an absolutely trivial game, you have to willfully and to a great extent handicap yourself to not waltz through everything completely unchallenged. Nat's been crushing SM, but I feel as a game it asks more of the player to complete and thus holds up better as a thing to come.back to.
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Mar 14, 2020 16:01
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Shitenshi posted:I'm surprised to hear you complain about the Space Jump when right before your rematch with the Golden Torizo and you were farming energy/missiles, you were using it like a boss across those lava pits. It's only in specific instances like that door in Brinstar that it's kind of irritating. From the last few videos I've noticed that Nat's ability to use the space jump seems to be the exact inverse of how frustrated he is sounding at the time. Which, of course, means that once he starts complaining about the space jump he gets more frustrated and thus gets worse at the space jump.
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Mar 14, 2020 16:59
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 A double bill! Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Mar 17, 2020 |
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Mar 17, 2020 00:13
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Natural 20 posted:
Super Metroid doesn't have a bonus for 100%, only for finishing it fast. Zero Mission and Fusion have different ending screens for speed and/or item collection.
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Mar 17, 2020 01:10
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Eagerly looking forward to the promised "Nat and Tea watch a speedrun"
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Mar 17, 2020 01:48
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Honestly, Nat did good overall. 76% in 6:40 on his first real play through the game is better than I did. I really do think he should have been able to get one more energy tank and one more Super Missile expansion; the one in Brinstar, where he kept looking for the entrance to the area, and the other in the wrecked ship, where he exposed the path on the way down to the boss and didn't make note of it. Some of the missile tanks are hard to find, especially on a first time through. I say they should watch a 100% speed run so they can see what he missed. I myself was tempted to do a 100% non-speedrun of the game to show off "normal player" tricks and strategies, but I haven't got any way to record footage other than pointing a cell phone at my TV screen. Good options for recording off older systems are really expensive, I found out.
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Mar 17, 2020 02:30
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Between your remarks on linearity vs open-ended as well as preferring games with narrative, in addition to the overall quality of life improvements? You'll have a blast with Fusion.
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Mar 17, 2020 04:33
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I can't believe you told him, you should have just told him about it after it was a thing. 
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Mar 17, 2020 04:48
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Remembering "Oh yeah, I had reserve tanks set to manual!" makes that Metroid friend scene a bit off in my own replay inspired by the LP. Pause, manual refill, and!... Oh I still can't move, okay then. Send in the metroid!Carbon dioxide posted:Now that Nat has the Screw Attack, this game has the pseudo-Screw attack right, and Nat never found about it because he never uses charged shots unless forced to? Late comment but I think I only ever, EVER used that on the "Toxic seahorse" because those guys are assholes with way too much health, and I need to hoard my ammo obviously 
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Mar 17, 2020 07:45
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Omnicrom posted:Eagerly looking forward to the promised "Nat and Tea watch a speedrun" Especially if they watch a reverse boss order speedrun.
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Mar 17, 2020 11:17
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2p1c and 90° are both ace too (but not ACE).
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Mar 17, 2020 15:59
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I'm really looking forward to the speedrun video. Now that I've watched this I might recognize enough of the game to properly appreciate a run of it.
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Mar 17, 2020 17:22
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Cerebral Bore posted:Especially if they watch a reverse boss order speedrun.
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Mar 18, 2020 12:17
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 And that my friends is all she wrote for this LP. Tea and I will as always be taking a short break between LPs and as we often like to do we'll be putting our next LP to a vote. We'll also be taking a short break from Metroidvanias so that they don't get old! Coronavirus permitting we're hoping to start up again at the end of April or beginning of May. The options are: 1. Trials of Mana remake: Controller Passing challenge. (Tea and I each play one character and must pass the controller if we ever need to switch) 2. Bioshock Blind: Yorkshire Tea running Blind through Bioshock. 3. Resident Evil 2 Remake Blind: Natural20 continues a blind run he recorded in December but never aired and gave up on a few hours in. (Alongside the original footage.) https://www.strawpoll.me/19573590 Thanks so much for watching along and we hope you catch up with us on our next adventure.
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Mar 20, 2020 01:20
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If I rememeber right, Mother Brain's Plot Laser checks for Varia Suit for its damage calculation. So without it you'd need to get more energy tanks to survive. In a 100% run you'd either not avoid damage in tourian or if you had too high health take the varia suit off to take more damage to enable the baby script to trigger. e: also even if you had missiles and supermissiles after knocking out Mother Brain's first form, the Plot Laser zeroes out all your weapons so you have no choice but to use the Hyper Beam. FeyerbrandX fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Mar 20, 2020 |
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Mar 20, 2020 01:58
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Grats on completing the run! Regarding Phantoon: It'll disappear and do the sweeping attack sequence if Samus exceeds a certain damage threshold with a single attack. Super missiles go over that threshold while normal missiles don't which is why speed runners prefer to use normal missiles followed by a single super finisher. On top of this they also go for a "doppler" technique where they'll fire missiles while running to stack them causing Phantoon to swallow a lot more hits in a single pass than it otherwise normally would.
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Mar 20, 2020 02:16
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Are all the bosses naturally that easy on their own (because that's the first time I've seen them die that fast) and the standard longer fights that people will usually have is due to them being cautious, or is that guy taking advantage of some glitch in their patterns that makes them squishier?
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Mar 20, 2020 02:19
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Shitenshi posted:Are all the bosses naturally that easy on their own (because that's the first time I've seen them die that fast) and the standard longer fights that people will usually have is due to them being cautious, or is that guy taking advantage of some glitch in their patterns that makes them squishier? No squishy-glitch, just knowing the routines and having techniques (such as the aforementioned dopplering on Phantoon) to maximise damage.
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Mar 20, 2020 02:21
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Re: Phantoon: Phantoon goes into his Hell Jumping Rope mode ONLY if he is hit with a Super Missile. The Speedrun fills him with regular missiles until he explodes specifically so they don't have to deal with that pattern and the long period of invincibility. Re: Varia Suit: The Speedrun grabs it to survive Mother Brain's Rainbow Beam. You need to be hit with it at least once and it deals 300 Damage with the Varia suit. The Gravity Suit DOES NOT reduce the damage from the Rainbow Beam, with only the Gravity Suit you need 6 energy tanks to survive it, so the choice is between one suit pickup or three extra tank pickups. I believe Reverse Boss Order does skip the Varia suit because it needs about that many E-Tanks to get through Norfair without the Varia Suit in the first place. Re: Weird Purple Attack on Draygon: That's known as an "X-Factor". If you equip Charge and only one other beam, charge up, select Power Bomb, and roll into a ball you'll use a Power Bomb to do a special attack, one different for each beam. The Wave Beam is 4 bouncing wave beams, hence why it's called "X-Factor". It's quite strong if you hit 3 or 4 of them. Re: Zebetites: Mother Brain's weird barrier things fall victim to a similar clip you saw where the runner just yoinks Samus up through the ceiling in a couple of rooms. By freezing a projectile in a certain way you can wedge yourself in the wall and go through. Each Zebetite only spawns after the last one is killed (SNES game, gotta save on sprites SOMEWHERE) you can clip through one and just waltz on over to fight Mother Brain. Easy Peasy. They get exactly the number of Missiles/Supers to kill Mother Brain's first form, then they just have to play perfectly with Charge Beam Shots.
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Mar 20, 2020 02:48
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So it's weird. After watching a recent GDQ, it seems like there are tricks to make the mother brain fight much faster, but they don't do it. It's supposed to be possible to shoot mother brain while the metroid heals you. If this is a world record run, it seems like that should be part of it.
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Mar 20, 2020 15:22
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ikanreed posted:So it's weird. After watching a recent GDQ, it seems like there are tricks to make the mother brain fight much faster, but they don't do it. It's supposed to be possible to shoot mother brain while the metroid heals you. If this is a world record run, it seems like that should be part of it. I believe you have to collect more energy tanks for that trick, which takes up far more time than it saves. It also has a softlock associated with it.
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Mar 20, 2020 15:39
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That means that someone is probably working on it right now, but it takes upwards of 100s of attempts before everything falls in place for a WR. It might be a month or two after a new technique is discovered before it shows up on the leaderboards. Edit: Or that. That's another good reason up there.
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Mar 20, 2020 15:40
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ikanreed posted:So it's weird. After watching a recent GDQ, it seems like there are tricks to make the mother brain fight much faster, but they don't do it. It's supposed to be possible to shoot mother brain while the metroid heals you. If this is a world record run, it seems like that should be part of it. Looks like it requires 700 health minimum to execute, so any% would lose time getting extra tanks to do so. That'd be a 100% trick. There was also a point where you'd use the murder beam (glitched beam) that causes a constant damage stream which didn't need you to do anything but just stay alive. I think that went away when they stopped using in game time due to the lag. Also I remember old paths where Phantoon was done later and they did some crazy card counting bullshit of hitting him with certain charge beam combos (like ice and spazer charge, ice and wave charge, then eventually all beam charge) to keep him in a vulnerable state long enough and then hammer him hard with the last hit.
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Mar 20, 2020 15:42
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I was so happy when Super Metroid disappeared from GDQ for a while because of a runner having meltdown. But now that it's back, it's also got its lovely save/kill donation incentive that makes it impossible to watch any run scheduled before (or sometimes even directly after) Super Metroid without every single donation being read out ending with "and of course ... the animals", making them excruciating to watch.
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Mar 20, 2020 17:07
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Super Metroid feels best to casually speedrun. I save, take breaks, and go by the in-game time at the end. Never agreed with the whole "every game must be single-session, even RPGs" thing they've got going now.
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Mar 20, 2020 20:13
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Geemer posted:I was so happy when Super Metroid disappeared from GDQ for a while because of a runner having meltdown. Marathon drama shelved Super Metroid? I thought it was because they ran out of gimmicks to do with it. What happened?
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Mar 20, 2020 21:02
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Some guy got tired of the GDQ memes (WAH!), bummed a mic off one of the couch and told everyone to walk in front of a bus. Year before that they did a very risky low% run/route for a race and 3/4 of the runners died early. Also the save/kill donation incentive overshadowed other runs. I don't think any one of those was responsible for the break, but the combination of them led to the game taking a year off and now though they still have it as a highlight at the end of the week save/kill isn't even an option until all the week's other donation incentives have been met. They don't want the animals memewar distracting from "play this game at all" incentives, or it becoming the focus of the whole week.
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Mar 20, 2020 21:15
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magikid posted:Super Metroid feels best to casually speedrun. I save, take breaks, and go by the in-game time at the end. Never agreed with the whole "every game must be single-session, even RPGs" thing they've got going now. Its, as far as I know, to stop people from splicing runs.
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Mar 20, 2020 21:51
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ItBreathes posted:Its, as far as I know, to stop people from splicing runs.
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Mar 21, 2020 00:03
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Bruceski posted:No squishy-glitch, just knowing the routines and having techniques (such as the aforementioned dopplering on Phantoon) to maximise damage. Hot drat. Super is the game with the legacy and SOTN would probably never have existed without it, but objectively speaking, Fusion is looking more and more like the better game. I don't think any of that one's big bosses can be abused like that save the final two, yet they're chump change to start with.
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Mar 21, 2020 01:16
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Low-HP bosses isn't a bad thing. Look at the LP's attempts and most of the fights are missed shots or trying to find an opening while learning what they throw. A large life bar on top of that would be maddening.
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Mar 21, 2020 01:21
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bosses in Fusion have their own host of issues. some are fun and some are meaningless slogs. between the two, i'd take Super's over Fusion's any day. but i suppose we don't want to give anything away... i always thought Fusion was more of a sidegrade to Super: buncha things improved, others lost. now Zero Mission... that one's my jam. captured both what i loved about Super and Fusion.
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Mar 21, 2020 01:38
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Dash Rendar posted:now Zero Mission... that one's my jam. captured both what i loved about Super and Fusion. Too bad Samus Returns dropped most of it to focus ridiculously hard on its new gimmick, leaving Zero Mission as still the best 2D Metroid.
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Mar 21, 2020 01:42
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at least we still have AM2R... though i didnt play beyond the spiderball so i dunno how later levels hold up
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Mar 21, 2020 02:05
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Geemer posted:Too bad Samus Returns dropped most of it to focus ridiculously hard on its new gimmick, leaving Zero Mission as still the best 2D Metroid. Samus Returns made intensely stupid and obnoxious decisions about a number of aspects of its gameplay. To date it is the only Metroid since the original I genuinely do not like. Also if we're talking about pain watching GDQ you should check out the GDQ run of Samus Returns which twice has the runner sitting there in morph ball rolling back and forth for literal minutes while the commentator is on unlimited donation mode until he succeeds at a glitch randomly clips into the floor to skip a huge chunk of the game. Alternately if you really hate yourself watch the Super Metroid 100% Map Speedrun where the runner and couch talk like they walked in off of /v/ and mock donation comments. I have plenty of regard for many speedruns and speedrunning, but I'm just done with GDQ and many of its adjacent events.
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Mar 21, 2020 05:03
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Omnicrom posted:Samus Returns made intensely stupid and obnoxious decisions about a number of aspects of its gameplay. To date it is the only Metroid since the original I genuinely do not like. e...even Other M!?
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Mar 21, 2020 05:21
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Dash Rendar posted:e...even Other M!? I want to dislike Other M, but I'm not authorized. 
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Mar 21, 2020 05:25
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