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Oh my loving god, this is gonna be a trainwreck, isn't it?
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Feb 13, 2020 00:40
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| # ? May 16, 2024 21:47 |
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Cerebral Bore posted:Oh my loving god, this is gonna be a trainwreck, isn't it? 
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Feb 13, 2020 03:06
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Zanzibar Ham posted:When I saw the above post I figured what was likely coming. As for the new area, the start of the music there always gave me this Dune 2-ish vibe, not exactly sure why. For some reason that really makes no bloody sense to me when I hear the song I think of Smashing Pumpkins 1979. also Yorkshire saying there's multiple ways to do something and usually the incredibly obtuse inefficient method is not the intended one and we end up in grav suitless maridia
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Feb 13, 2020 03:57
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SSNeoman posted:Oh no. OH YES
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Feb 13, 2020 04:37
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This is some top tier sequence breaking. Just keep doing your thing, this can't possibly go wrong! That random save point you dismissed earlier is starting to look pretty awesome in hindsight huh.
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Feb 13, 2020 08:22
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I barely remember anything about my playthrough of Super Metroid, compared to the NES original. I did play through the whole thing and beat it, but only once I think, ages ago. I don't have any fleshed-out memory of what the standard sequence is supposed to be, to be able to tell when it's being broken. So right now I'm seeing all the reactions in here and thinking, how is this even sequence breaking? He's had power bombs for a while now, and that was literally the only thing he needed to get into Meridia and stumble into this weird roadblock right away... I don't get it!
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Feb 13, 2020 12:18
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Iirc it isn't.
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Feb 13, 2020 14:07
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There's some disagreement about it, but I've come to believe quote and edit are different things.
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Feb 13, 2020 14:08
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ItBreathes posted:Iirc it isn't. Yeah, this part is intended to be accessible at this point. However, you can use it for some primo sequencebreaking if you're really good and know all the speedrunning tricks. Cerebral Bore fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Feb 13, 2020 |
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Feb 13, 2020 14:29
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This is as much a sequence break as going into the wrecked frigate as early as possible in Metroid Prime is: it's certainly inadvisable and won't get you far (at least in Prime you get an E-Tank, I forget what kind of goodies you might get early here), but it's very much allowed by the items you have available to you at that point, and there's no immediate reason why you'd think "oh no this is clearly the wrong way". After all, water doesn't kill you. One could argue that the game wouldn't force you to go through water rooms much like it doesn't force you to go through hot rooms, but the first two Primes (one room in 1, many more in 2), Fusion and Samus Returns just off the top of my head absolutely do, so
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Feb 13, 2020 15:37
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ItBreathes posted:Iirc it isn't. The game is totally fine with you getting into Maridia at this point in the game and actually probably quite pleased you figured out you can use power bombs for this. PROGRESSING through Maridia though? That's not what the devs were expecting
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Feb 13, 2020 18:05
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Yeah, there's a fairly interesting example of how game design might have moved on (or not) - modern games would expect you to go through a couple of rooms in that slowing water before you get an upgrade that would make your movement easier so you can really appreciate your new toy. On the other hand, it could just as well be a means of discouragement, of telling you "nope, go find the upgrade first". And they are probably both valid design techniques, it's just that you have to keep guessing. I have no idea where the upgrade actually is. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Feb 13, 2020 |
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Feb 13, 2020 18:23
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Simply Simon posted:This is as much a sequence break as going into the wrecked frigate as early as possible in Metroid Prime is: it's certainly inadvisable and won't get you far (at least in Prime you get an E-Tank, I forget what kind of goodies you might get early here), but it's very much allowed by the items you have available to you at that point, and there's no immediate reason why you'd think "oh no this is clearly the wrong way". After all, water doesn't kill you. Unless you engage in shenanigans, there is nothing to really get here without the gravity suit, well except for the maridia map I guess. All the items are just out of reach and you're also trapped in floaty platforming hell. To be honest, that super missile gate is a loving dick and the reason I think this area has genuinely bad design. Forcing players to do a loop while having to move and platform at like 50% speed is cruel.
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Feb 13, 2020 22:13
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Feb 15, 2020 00:18
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"the power bomb bricks..." Yes! You know! "by Kraid"? what. Oh, that, the missiles.... So, so close to the ice beam route power bomb blocks that would also lead to Crocomire
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Feb 15, 2020 00:46
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I don't know if you consider technique a spoiler, but the way I reliably pull off a bomb jump is a waltz rhythm. Bomb-wait-bomb-bomb-wait-bomb-bomb-wait and so on. Getting the tempo right takes fine tuning but if you're musical that may help.
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Feb 15, 2020 01:23
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Ah, the back way into Croc. Glad you didn't stumble into there afer wave beam without power bombs or ice beam. That can be painful.
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Feb 15, 2020 01:49
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I actually found missiles to be pretty useless, with the notable exception of the final few bosses. Super Missiles are the poo poo though.
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Feb 15, 2020 02:27
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I forgot how annoying that Crocomire fight can be. Also, surprised you didn't try a running jump to the other end of the room right after killing Crocomire. Wouldn't be the most fortune favors the bold thing done in this playthrough so far.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:33
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When did the maps first start becoming really decent in 2D Metroids? Was it Fusion? Feel like it'd be interesting to see a comparison from Nat's perspective after this.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:56
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Fusion indeed. That was when connecting rooms started to be shown and the circles-and-dots POIs implemented.
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Feb 15, 2020 05:03
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"This feels like a dead end" I'm so glad about this video's ending.
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Feb 15, 2020 09:12
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That boss feels really boring, though. One attack of destructible projectiles, one attack that only becomes threatening if you don't figure out the glaringly obvious weak point and that's it. The worst I can see it doing is tricking the player into thinking they don't have the proper tool to fight this thing yet and re-loading.
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Feb 15, 2020 10:42
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anilEhilated posted:That boss feels really boring, though. One attack of destructible projectiles, one attack that only becomes threatening if you don't figure out the glaringly obvious weak point and that's it. The worst I can see it doing is tricking the player into thinking they don't have the proper tool to fight this thing yet and re-loading. Well, I think the only real way Crocomire wins is pushing you onto the spikes. But mostly it's just a quick miniboss - it looked much harder than normal in this video since Nat didn't realize charge shots work until late.
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Feb 15, 2020 20:27
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Feb 18, 2020 00:04
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As Yorkshire mentioned, this is a different way to get there. You got the wave beam, which isn't a mandatory item (and you sequence broke it) which let you get through the one way gate by the bubble room. Prime path would be Varia and Kraid, Speed Booster, Ice Beam, Up the Red soil area of Brinstar to power bombs, then back to Crocomire via the very visible power bomb blocks that you just went through. FeyerbrandX fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Feb 18, 2020 |
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Feb 18, 2020 00:47
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I always love hearing Brits saying SNES as Sness. For awhile, I thought that you simply had to tough it out in the lava to make it through and as a result died horribly multiple times, not realizing at the time that the density effect in it like the water in this game makes it outright impossible as opposed to simply just another challenge you can grit your teeth through and make it out alive. I had been following Nintendo Power's walkthrough the whole time, so naturally, thought this was the way to go, not even realizing at the time this game's structure is far from linear.
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Feb 18, 2020 01:34
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Coming into this LP with even less Metroid experience than Nat, I have to admit that his "Why is this here if there's nothing there" logic makes sense to me. There do seem to be a lot of paths that don't lead to much of anything, whereas I'd expect like....at least a missile upgrade or something. (also i've had this gangtag for 18 months and I only now, after several references to shinesparking in this video, know what it refers to)
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Feb 18, 2020 03:57
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Shitenshi posted:I always love hearing Brits saying SNES as Sness. I've always done this and I'm not British 
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Feb 18, 2020 03:58
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Tea keeps coming up with great thread titles "You didn't think, just for a second, you weren't supposed to do that?" - Let's Play Super Metroid
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Feb 18, 2020 04:17
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Bellmaker posted:I've always done this and I'm not British I always thought it was pronounced Sness over in the UK and Ess-en-ee-ess over in the states. Same with the NES too, just accommodate the pronunciation to lack the respective S parts. I remember reading a whole thing about that back when the SNES Classic was released.
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Feb 18, 2020 08:34
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It's amazing how super non-genre savvy Natural20 is for Super Metroid. Trying to swim through the lava, leaving rooms after they give him an upgrade without checking if there might be a secret in there, complaining about an alternative route that should at least award a missile pack or something without wondering whether there might actually be an item upgrade in it..., etc. Yet he still makes great progress through the game, it's pretty impressive.
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Feb 18, 2020 08:47
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Shitenshi posted:I always thought it was pronounced Sness over in the UK and Ess-en-ee-ess over in the states. Same with the NES too, just accommodate the pronunciation to lack the respective S parts. I remember reading a whole thing about that back when the SNES Classic was released. The correct terms are "Nintendo" and "Super Nintendo".
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Feb 18, 2020 09:15
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I know that the speed-booster corridor is the "proper sequence" path to Crocomire/Grappling Beam, but getting the Wave Beam early is such a drat easy and convenient sequence break to pull off that I don't really blame Natural20 too much for his confusion. I rarely bother with that path myself.
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Feb 18, 2020 14:05
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oldskool posted:Coming into this LP with even less Metroid experience than Nat, I have to admit that his "Why is this here if there's nothing there" logic makes sense to me. There do seem to be a lot of paths that don't lead to much of anything, whereas I'd expect like....at least a missile upgrade or something. In your defense I've been very confused for the past year about why the Finespark tag has Samus on it when it was clearly referring to a Fox that technique from Smash Melee.
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Feb 18, 2020 14:28
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If anyone cares "Shine Spark" was originally a thing from 70s giant robot series "Getter Robo G", though in practice it works more like the more powerful version performed by the Shin Getter Robo, though I'm not sure whether the Shin Shine Spark actually predates Super Metroid. Also fully agreeing Nat is bizarrely anti-genre saavy. It's kind of fascinating to see how badly he crosses his signals.
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Feb 18, 2020 17:28
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Omnicrom posted:Also fully agreeing Nat is bizarrely anti-genre saavy. It's kind of fascinating to see how badly he crosses his signals. This is what makes blind playthroughs interesting, because there's a lot of stuff we take for granted both in general logic and specific details. I've seen a lot of blind runners get stuck trying to find Kraid because even though his area is on the map the way in's through an elevator room that people don't parse as somewhere to look further, and the only obvious bomb spot before then was the super-obvious charge beam. Or they lose track of what weapons reveal special blocks, shoot it with the normal gun and walk away. But since we already know what the solution is, it's "obvious".
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Feb 18, 2020 20:07
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Bruceski posted:But since we already know what the solution is, it's "obvious". I don't exactly hold it against Nat for not doing things like getting the one missile in the lovely crumble block room in the Norfair cul-de-sac, but it's fascinating how differently he plays blind vs how I played it blind as a kid years ago. Kid me had absolutely zero trouble figuring out "Shoot the block!" in the Morph Ball room, but for the life of me it took forever to get to Power Bombing into Maridia. Natural 20 now has way more experience with the genre than kid me ever had, but both of us played really differently, had very different blind spots, and ended up travelling through the game in very different ways. So in a semi-related note, Placing bets, how long do you think it'll take to get out of Lower Norfair?
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Feb 18, 2020 20:55
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I think people also tend to forget how their first completely blind playthrough of a game like this really went. Nat20 faffing about in a room for 5 min seems like an hour when watching and screaming the solution at the screen, but your own days of simply not finding the next upgrade get lost in memory. There's some moments in the structure of every Metroid game where the game blatantly expects you to do exactly that: get lost and explore. Here, it's after Speed Booster and Powerbombs, which open a lot of things, and which you've been waiting for for a long time, so Grapple is deliberately out of the way to incentivise you to find poo poo. It's actually quite important to not have the main path to be overly obvious, I think, because the type of player who just can't resist the call of the "quest marker" will otherwise lose out on too many powerups that are off the beaten path, and be underpowered for the endgame. Both Prime 1 and 2 have a strong moment of this after getting the Boost ball. In each case, you have to backtrack through half the game so far to a kind of innocuous "pass-through" room to reach the next critical upgrade. In Prime 1, after getting Boost in Phendrana, you have to go back to the room before the Chozo Ruins elevator in Tallon Overworld (the third room of the game) for the halfpipe leading to High-jump boots. You probably didn't even notice the halfpipe. In Prime 2, Boost Guardian is in Dark Torvus Bog. The critical halfpipe, to Seeker Missiles, is after the elevator leading towards the path to Torvus in Temple Grounds. The pipe is more obvious (different material than the rest of the environment), but still very missable. In both games, in my first playthroughs, I faffed around finding small powerups until the hint system told me where to go. You lack that in Super, so you'll get even more lost. I think that's deliberate, and necessary, and you can't blame Nat for that.
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Feb 18, 2020 21:18
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Reaching into the mists of whenever I played this first, but I think one of the things Super Metroid does best is make it feel like the environment wasn't made for you; Samus is the invader here. In most games when you get a power up the next hour of the game is about using that powerup. SM does it a bit with the grapple beam but it's also the most complicated of abilities you get (imo). Most of the time getting a new ability just lets you open some doors, which often have other locked doors behind them since Zebes is an alien base, not a level for Samus to progress through. Also, there's knowing what to do, but there's also power bombing every room in case something is hidden there.
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Feb 18, 2020 22:12
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