|
Surprised you didn't freeze the green eldritch abominations and use them as stepping stones to navigate that room of quicksand. Haven't seen the DQ movie either, but it's an adaptation of the fifth one and all of those games are like FF in that they don't have a shared storyline/world.
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 03:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 20:42 |
|
|
Shitenshi posted:Surprised you didn't freeze the green eldritch abominations and use them as stepping stones to navigate that room of quicksand. Haven't seen the DQ movie either, but it's an adaptation of the fifth one and all of those games are like FF in that they don't have a shared storyline/world. That's not entirely true, in DQ2 you play the distant descendants of the first game's hero and even visit the entirety of the first game's continent at some point. DQs 4-6 are called the Zenithian trilogy, though I unfortunately don't really know if they're as connected as the first DQs or if they only share having the Zenithian gear and such.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 11:10
|
|
|
Zanzibar Ham posted:DQs 4-6 are called the Zenithian trilogy, though I unfortunately don't really know if they're as connected as the first DQs or if they only share having the Zenithian gear and such. There's a couple of odd references back and forth across the three games, but nothing actually plot relevant. Mostly it's just the Zenithian gear.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 17:35
|
|
|
As someone who also still struggles getting stuck in Maridia's mud, I was pretty impressed that Nat got the Spring Ball so easily. I've never been able to jump through the gap consistently and always hold off on that item until later.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 20:22
|
|
|
Those sand rooms were incredibly frustrating to watch and I never even played this far into the game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 20:53
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:Those sand rooms were incredibly frustrating to watch and I never even played this far into the game. Fortunately, those rooms are about as bad as it gets. Most of the rest of Maridia is pretty non-threatening. That said, it's also probably why it happens to be my least-favorite area: it feels like there's not a whole lot going on for as big an area as it is.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 23:32
|
|
|
Ah... The spring ball room. The location of the first sword in the last seed of SMxLttP I played. What a pain in the dick. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 23:43
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2020 00:08
|
|
|
I've seen people do diagonal shinespark jumps for out of the way upgrades like that later on down the road.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2020 05:53
|
|
|
My first time through, I couldn't figure out that jumping while Speed Boosting would get me up to the Grapple Beam door, so I did something weird with a Shinespark to get it. I don't think I managed a diagonal one - I think I just charged it, jumped as far out as I could, went straight up, and somehow made it to the door that way. When one of my younger brothers figured out the intended way to do it, I felt really bad.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2020 17:17
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2020 00:06
|
|
|
I absolutely forgot that miniboss was even a thing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2020 02:18
|
|
|
I appreciate the progression of "ooo, poo poo, gently caress, I am so mad right now."
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2020 06:12
|
|
|
I guess I'm kind of weird, or at least different, because I find the high speed action and jumping of modern platformers very frustrating but find the slower, more laid back jumping and grappling beam swinging we saw in this video to be a lot of fun. It actually took me by surprise when Nat spontaneously started talking about how frustrating it was. Not the quicksand though. That stuff is definitely annoying.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2020 06:48
|
|
|
Bremen posted:I guess I'm kind of weird, or at least different, because I find the high speed action and jumping of modern platformers very frustrating but find the slower, more laid back jumping and grappling beam swinging we saw in this video to be a lot of fun. It actually took me by surprise when Nat spontaneously started talking about how frustrating it was. See, I actually like high speed platforming action, but I also really enjoyed the Maridia Grapple Beam portions. It felt a lot like Ristar, and Ristar is maybe my favorite or second favorite platformer ever.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2020 18:41
|
|
|
"Hahaha - tit-tular." I laughed. Edit: I also had no problem with the grapple beam sections, but everybody enjoys different things in games. I also did a lot more shinesparking, because that always felt like a lot of fun to me. Torrannor fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Mar 3, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2020 19:42
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 00:32
|
|
|
No offense, but I don't see how the hell you can love walljumping so much and then complain about the spacejump being frustrating and difficult  . I played Super Metroid for years and never got good at wall jumping but the space jump always felt quite intuitive to me.As for Draygon, I've always seen the "easy" way of beating him to be practically a secret/easter egg. I mean, I can see how you could stumble onto it - Nat nearly did in this video - but I don't think it's really the intended or expected way to fight him. Incidentally, he only "grabs" you if you get caught in the stuff he spits out (that slows you down if it sticks to you); spamming missiles wasn't preventing him from grabbing you so much as it was destroying the projectiles before they touched you.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 01:11
|
|
|
Like future games, the space jump here is still a bit wonky, but nowhere hear the flakiness of the problem of falling out of spin jumping and the tight window of wall jumping.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 01:27
|
|
|
Bremen posted:No offense, but I don't see how the hell you can love walljumping so much and then complain about the spacejump being frustrating and difficult And a thing Nat did without noticing is that if you mash buttons and Draygon flails around he can't actually deal damage to you. It reduces 400 damage to about 40, and it's funny Nat missed it because he kept on complaining about how unfair the raw damage of the grab was. Also I guarantee the thing Tea is thinking of isn't used in speedruns anymore, they just Shine Spark Draygon these days.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 01:50
|
|
|
I know Fusion is nowhere near as beloved as this one, but I do like that that game had a greater variety of bosses with the same hit and run patterns the ones here use, as well as avoiding the feeling of waiting for a mack truck to expose itself and being forced to dodge the incoming onslaught while at the same time hoping you get your licks in. At the very least there's nothing as insipidly boring as Crocomire in that one or upcoming for this game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 02:57
|
|
|
Omnicrom posted:Also I guarantee the thing Tea is thinking of isn't used in speedruns anymore, they just Shine Spark Draygon these days. ahahahaha what  It's clear at this point Nat20's a walljump savant. The space jump was great for me, an idiot who could barely get out of the space-monkeys shaft.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 03:58
|
|
|
Bellmaker posted:ahahahaha what yeah, its crazy does a ton of damage, plus saves the charge for a later shinespark, usually through that large mocktroid room that you had to deal with the grapple beam in so you can enjoy the simplicity of the space jump slowly but surely letting you get out in style. Damages the hell out of the ultimate pirates too.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 04:02
|
|
|
Bellmaker posted:ahahahaha what If done wrong it insta-kills you because it removes invincibility frames. You just immediately go down to zero and get the reserve tank refilling animation to comprehend how much you just screwed up.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 04:04
|
|
|
Once this run is all done everyone please take a moment to watch a Super Metroid Reverse Boss Order run. It's the whole freaking time for the person watching it just as it is for the person playing it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 07:03
|
|
|
Have to admit, I got a bit angry watching this. What kind of entitled attitude do you need to have to expect to never die to a boss? To say with a straight face that "I tried to do everything (reasonable)", when that's simply not true. Mashing buttons when you get grabbed by enemies is a staple in video games, not just Super Metroid. But Nat died to Draygon, so the boss sucks? And then Nat's too uninterested to properly learn the space jump, and I'm seriously getting frustrated. Don't know if I will continue to watch this LP if this continues the next episode. This was my first Metroid game, and perhaps I'm seeing it through rose-tinted glasses, but I still love the game. I liked most of the following Metroid games, too (except Other M, gently caress that), yet I always found the controls in for example Fusion a tiny bit off. Because my muscle memory is just dominated from years of playing Super Metroid as a kid. But I never held that against those other games. Unlike Natural20, who clearly played the later Metroid games first, and is now put off by Super Metroid. And let's us know by constantly moaning about it. To paraphrase: "This is not how Fusion did it, therefore it sucks". I have no problem when people think the later games are better than Super Metroid, it's is clearly dated in some respects. But the constant put downs get on my nerves. There's nothing to be done if Natural20 doesn't enjoy playing the game. It just saps my enjoyment of the LP, too 
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 08:18
|
|
|
At least with Draygon the problem to me lies in the visual language around the boss. If I get grabbed in say Smash and mash my way out then two things happen. 1. The grab ends early. 2. The attacking character has an animation indicating their surprise. With Draygon neither of these happen. So I tried to mash out only to just be held by the boss for around half a minute. I concluded, reasonably I think, that mashing didn't work and tried something else. The only indicator that mashing is doing anything is the health indicator which will vary based on how much you mash. The problem is here that for a new player, you don't A) know how much damage the attack is meant to do. B) know what causes less damage to be done. But mostly, I dislike it because it's just so long of not being able to do anything. I'd much rather touching the boss hit me for 400 damage because then I'd still be playing the game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 10:39
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:Have to admit, I got a bit angry watching this. What kind of entitled attitude do you need to have to expect to never die to a boss? Unironically teach me how to think like you. I get all angry and indignant whenever I experience the slightest difficulty with a game and I hate it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 11:01
|
|
|
It seems to be more of an issue of backseating that happens with well-liked games; the more modern exaples would be Dark Souls fans constantly commenting on how the player hasn't figured out the boss gimmick immediately. From what I can tell just from watching the fight, having never played this far myself, I would speculate that there are two visual tells for the grab attack: 1) The sticky shots that land on you and stay on you before he grabs you. A lot of projectiles in this game seems to be destructible. 2) The fact Samus can still move and aim while he holds you. I don't know, maybe you can wiggle out by sufficiently controlled buttonmashing (leftrightleftrightleftrightleftrightAAARGH)? Grapple to walls in the room and hope the beam is stronger than the monster? Hold the run button since Samus' legs still move and try to get into a dash in place? Thing is, none of these (provided some of them even work) is obvious on a first or second try and some can be reasonably expected to be parts of more modern design (such as a potential wiggle QTE). Besides, these came out of watching the video - a much more detached position than actually playing the game and dodging for your life. tl;dr: I fully understand the frustration with this boss.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 11:47
|
|
|
Draygon is annoying and mean and I'm amazed Nat had as little trouble as he did, I guess younger me never thought to just unload missiles, or maybe Nat got a good pattern or something. Not mashing more when grabbed had me  too. It does end the attack sooner, but it's such a long-rear end attack I can see how you'd think otherwise. What I don't get is how you'd ever come to the conclusion that there was nothing you could do (here or in many other cases). What games are you playing where your only option is 'get hosed'?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 17:24
|
|
|
i always had more trouble with Phantoom. I love the Draygon fight!
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 17:31
|
|
|
Mashing while you're grabbed makes you flail all around the arena without getting poked by the tail instead of floating in the middle while getting hosed up. The comment that there's no feedback to confirm mashing helps is really weird to me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 18:14
|
|
|
Draygon is an rear end, and that's all there is to it
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2020 20:19
|
|
|
I myself have never managed to beat Draygon through conventional means; I figured out the One Weird Trick for this boss on my first play through and figured that was the way you're supposed to do it, and that it probably had too much health to make a conventional fight practical. By the time I found out how little health Draygon actually had, I still figured, "eh, I still prefer the easy way."
Meaty Ore fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Mar 6, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2020 21:13
|
|
|
So the latest update was already posted on Youtube and having caught it... Is the Space Jump in this game really that bad? Last Metroid I played was Fusion, haven't played this one in forever to the point that I might as well have not played it, but from little I remember, that ability was never an issue. This is a pretty tough game relatively speaking, but the difficulty always seemed to lie with the bosses as opposed to any of the controls.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2020 02:14
|
|
|
The Space Jump has a really weird activation window in Super Metroid. You need to be falling for a bit before you can activate it. But not too little, and absolutely not too much. Gently going down with it is a huge pain in the dick because if you fall more than two Samus heights you miss your window and are committed to landing. It's fine once you're used to it, but the second you get the space jump in any more modern 2D Metroid, you know it was actually real bad.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2020 02:37
|
|
|
It's definitely finicky, but once you get the hang of it it works pretty well.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2020 03:35
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:It's definitely finicky, but once you get the hang of it it works pretty well. The irony is I think it works pretty much exactly like wall jumping without a wall. But yeah, it's one of those things where it's confusing at first, then you get the hang of it and suddenly it just works like magic.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2020 04:48
|
|
|
I keep getting irrationally angry with Nat20 whenever he blames the game designers for his own inability to get the hang of something millions of other people can do with no issues, despite the face that I do the exact same thing all the time with this same game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2020 05:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 20:42 |
|
|
Truthkeeper posted:I keep getting irrationally angry with Nat20 whenever he blames the game designers for his own inability to get the hang of something millions of other people can do with no issues, despite the face that I do the exact same thing all the time with this same game. It's kind of making me realize how much the fundamentals of games have changed over all these years. Take Draygon - Nat20 complained that none of the information you needed was obvious, and I think that might be because modern games make an effort to try to be very obvious about important gameplay info like that, while older games didn't (also in the SNES days dying a few times to learn a boss's patterns wouldn't have been seen as out of the ordinary). I don't really think of it in terms of "x is better and y is inferior", just how things have changed.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2020 07:15
|
|