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wearing a lampshade
Mar 6, 2013

just following up to say this book is good

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Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN

THIS DAY IN HISTORY APRIL 16TH posted:

1943
April 16

Hallucinogenic effects of LSD discovered

In Basel, Switzerland, Albert Hofmann, a Swiss chemist working at the Sandoz pharmaceutical research laboratory, accidentally consumes LSD-25, a synthetic drug he had created in 1938 as part of his research into the medicinal value of lysergic acid compounds. After taking the drug, formally known as lysergic acid diethylamide, Dr. Hofmann was disturbed by unusual sensations and hallucinations. In his notes, he related the experience:

“Last Friday, April 16, 1943, I was forced to interrupt my work in the laboratory in the middle of the afternoon and proceed home, being affected by a remarkable restlessness, combined with a slight dizziness. At home I lay down and sank into a not unpleasant, intoxicated-like condition characterized by an extremely stimulated imagination. In a dreamlike state, with eyes closed (I found the daylight to be unpleasantly glaring), I perceived an uninterrupted stream of fantastic pictures, extraordinary shapes with intense, kaleidoscopic play of colors. After some two hours this condition faded away.”

After intentionally taking the drug again to confirm that it had caused this strange physical and mental state, Dr. Hofmann published a report announcing his discovery, and so LSD made its entry into the world as a hallucinogenic drug. Widespread use of the so-called “mind-expanding” drug did not begin until the 1960s, when counterculture figures such as Albert M. Hubbard, Timothy Leary and Ken Kesey publicly expounded on the benefits of using LSD as a recreational drug. The manufacture, sale, possession and use of LSD, known to cause negative reactions in some of those who take it, were made illegal in the United States in 1965.

Spergin Morlock
Aug 8, 2009


lol that misses the part about how he rode his bike home after accidentally dosing himself, tripping balls the whole time

Beaucoup Cuckoo
Apr 10, 2008

Uncle Seymour wants you to eat your beans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J36xPWBLcG8

Just in case you guys didn't know.

animist
Aug 28, 2018
i've been reading Chaos and it's fascinating. kinda reminds me of The Management of Savagery, which also traces a bunch of career criminals through their spooky dealings with the us government... although with a background of hardcore Islam instead of hippies and LSD.

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN

This is a great in depth discussion of the book and also Rogan does a good job of getting O'Neill and open up and speculate a bit more regarding some of the implications of what he discovered. I highly recommend this, perhaps more so to anyone who has already read to the end of Chaos.

Beaucoup Cuckoo
Apr 10, 2008

Uncle Seymour wants you to eat your beans.
Sounds like he's got two more book to write before he croaks.

Centrist Committee
Aug 6, 2019

Helsing posted:

This is a great in depth discussion of the book and also Rogan does a good job of getting O'Neill and open up and speculate a bit more regarding some of the implications of what he discovered. I highly recommend this, perhaps more so to anyone who has already read to the end of Chaos.

it’s three hours, what’s the gist of his speculation?

I just read the book and it sounds like oneil was really hoping to directly connect west to manson. personally that’s not as important to me as what the book says about the nature of class power. I came away with the sense that the cia either unleashed or encouraged the spread of amphetamines to break the counterculture. other than that, there’s no “grand conspiracy,” just a highly compartmentalized network of amoral psychopaths doing mengele-level “science” to maintain social control. it’s not so much that west personally programmed the manson family mkultra style, but rather that david smith saw manson as a savant and enabled his crimes, just to see what happened. because hey, what’s the worst that could happen? it’s not like he was disseminating a class analysis

my guess is that roger smith was enough to vouch for him in SF and david smith kept him full of drugs and “participant-observed” his way through the harem while pumping rats full of amphetamines. down in hollywood, reeve whitson partied with all the celebrities to collect blackmail material just in case they ever stopped doing epstein poo poo and stumbled onto communism. he probably got a list of names with manson on it from his handler and his word was enough to keep the lapd off his rear end.

when the whole thing blew up in their faces, everyone closed ranks. there were probably a few weeks when a bunch of administrators and politicians realized they exposed, then Bugliosi came along and offered a way out of analysis paralysis, so they all fell in line, kind of like how everyone made way for Biden after Super Tuesday.

to me this all says that the real danger isn’t so much “men in small rooms,” as it is bourgeois science, which will disregard any ethical and moral restraint to ensure the ruling class is never materially threatened. I’m interested in what the “amphetamine contagions” of our contemporary moment are. I suspect it’s connected to the way we use the Internet

Beaucoup Cuckoo
Apr 10, 2008

Uncle Seymour wants you to eat your beans.
I think it might be 3hrs well spent for you.

Not that any of us are busy right now.

First hour focuses on Chaos.

Second hour gets into the before and after of the book more.

Third hour is touch and go and most of where Joe goads him into being more speculative in his claims.

Last 20 minutes are probably the most entertaining.

Centrist Committee
Aug 6, 2019

Beaucoup Cuckoo posted:

Not that any of us are busy right now.

this is true!

Centrist Committee
Aug 6, 2019
yeah the joe rogan interview is good, I’m not sure what I’m supposed to do with this information lol

e: I’d forgotten there was a strain of white hollywood celebs who supported the panthers and poo poo

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

The JRE ep was great, and as others have said, Joe was able to push him closer to speculation than he was in the book or on the Chapo episode.

I had heard that Sirhan Sirhan had weird amnesia but always dismissed that. If there’s a connection to Jolly West, I’m all-in.

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011


I went and put this book to "fun reads" list to get and queued Twenty Days of Turin afterwards, drugless brain frying techniques being developed as I post

(very good read so far, I am at chapter 3)

Centrist Committee
Aug 6, 2019
Billionaire Dark Enlightenment prince Peter Thiel, the rear end in a top hat behind Palantir, invested in a psychedelic research startup:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-23/thiel-backs-psychedelic-drug-startup-in-latest-funding-round

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"
The actual scariest thing in this book is the more-or-less throwaway lines in Chapter 12 regarding Merlin. Apparently, and I didn't know this, private investigators are license AND if you're licensed you automatically get access to a database that allows you to cross reference directories to find anyone who doesn't want to be found. What? WHAT?!

Beaucoup Cuckoo
Apr 10, 2008

Uncle Seymour wants you to eat your beans.
Maybe a naive thing to say, especially in the context of this thread, but getting licensed isn't the easiest thing to do.

The Kingfish
Oct 21, 2015


I thought the scariest thing in the book was when Jolly West hypnotized that soldier into murdering someone without remembering it and then got the soldier sentenced to death after forcing him to confess by pumping him to the gills full of sodium pentothal.

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"
Oh yeah there's scarier things. I figured it's not that hard? How hard is it?

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1260767010872610819

Anybody read this book? Any good?

I need more CIA exposes after reading CHAOS. "Legacy of Ashes" gets mentioned quite a bit, but just as many people say it's succlib drivel.

gh0stpinballa
Mar 5, 2019

Ramrod Hotshot posted:

https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1260767010872610819

Anybody read this book? Any good?

I need more CIA exposes after reading CHAOS. "Legacy of Ashes" gets mentioned quite a bit, but just as many people say it's succlib drivel.

poisoner in chief
politics of heroin
devil's chessboard

inferis
Dec 30, 2003

Ramrod Hotshot posted:


I need more CIA exposes after reading CHAOS. "Legacy of Ashes" gets mentioned quite a bit, but just as many people say it's succlib drivel.

blowback is pretty good

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy
book threads are good

just my 2 cents

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"
After reading Programmed to Kill I sincerely believe that Manson's quote in the Epilogue (which O'Neill puts no stock in) - "The U.S. Navy holds the purse strings, man" - is very much worthy of investigation.

The Kingfish
Oct 21, 2015


Ramrod Hotshot posted:

https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1260767010872610819

Anybody read this book? Any good?

I need more CIA exposes after reading CHAOS. "Legacy of Ashes" gets mentioned quite a bit, but just as many people say it's succlib drivel.

If you can get past its horrendous framing, Legacy of Ashes contains a lot of irrefutable proof that the CIA is as evil as it is incompetent (very). Lots of humorous stories about the US intelligence getting absolutely dunked on in the Cold War. Lots of infuriating stories about the US installing/propping up right wing dictators.

gh0stpinballa
Mar 5, 2019

"the CIA as organized crime" is good

Happy Thread
Jul 10, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
Plaster Town Cop

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN
Today I learned about the existence of Michael Bear Carson and Suzan Carson, the "San Fransico Witch Killers", and Michael sorta sounds like a B list Charles Manson. He was a hippy stay at home dad and sometimes pot dealer who lived in Haight-Ashbury and who seems to have undergone some kind of violent psychotic break that caused his wife to divorce him and later to flee in the night with their young daughter. Michael renamed himself Bear, found a new and appropriately crazy wife, and then became convinced he was supposed to hunt and kill "witches". The two of them were eventually convicted of three murders though apparently there are suspicions that they killed up to a dozen people. They murdered an aspiring actress and also plotted to kill various celebrities and politicians including then president Ronald Reagan. While they were on the run from the cops they were arrested by the LAPD in 1982 but quickly released due to police error, apparently leaving a gun behind. A few months later they were apprehended after violently murdering a man who was giving them a ride in his car and being seen by other motorists on the road.

Happy Thread
Jul 10, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
Plaster Town Cop
What just happened to the thread title lol

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 235 days!

Dumb Lowtax posted:

What just happened to the thread title lol

i think the kids are calling it a crack ping

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN
On a whim I decided to temporarily zhuzh up the thread title just in case it pulls in a few fresh posters.

nut
Jul 30, 2019

Helsing posted:

Today I learned about the existence of Michael Bear Carson and Suzan Carson, the "San Fransico Witch Killers", and Michael sorta sounds like a B list Charles Manson. He was a hippy stay at home dad and sometimes pot dealer who lived in Haight-Ashbury and who seems to have undergone some kind of violent psychotic break that caused his wife to divorce him and later to flee in the night with their young daughter. Michael renamed himself Bear, found a new and appropriately crazy wife, and then became convinced he was supposed to hunt and kill "witches". The two of them were eventually convicted of three murders though apparently there are suspicions that they killed up to a dozen people. They murdered an aspiring actress and also plotted to kill various celebrities and politicians including then president Ronald Reagan. While they were on the run from the cops they were arrested by the LAPD in 1982 but quickly released due to police error, apparently leaving a gun behind. A few months later they were apprehended after violently murdering a man who was giving them a ride in his car and being seen by other motorists on the road.

posting in the chaos thread that the LAPD released known killers because of police error

gh0stpinballa
Mar 5, 2019

i've been checking out visup a lot and cross referencing with chaos, and i'm truly surprised they have not yet paid some spree killer to go at the protesters

inferis
Dec 30, 2003

gh0stpinballa posted:

i've been checking out visup a lot and cross referencing with chaos, and i'm truly surprised they have not yet paid some spree killer to go at the protesters

theres plenty of cops out already????

Pryor on Fire
May 14, 2013

they don't know all alien abduction experiences can be explained by people thinking saving private ryan was a documentary

gh0stpinballa posted:

i've been checking out visup a lot and cross referencing with chaos, and i'm truly surprised they have not yet paid some spree killer to go at the protesters

why would you do that when you can just put pallets of bricks all over the place and then get a massive increase in your budget to deal with rioters. Killing people is so 1960s.

Impkins Patootie
Apr 20, 2017





does this book touch upon the CIA's connection to Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple? is there a better book for that??

Centrist Committee
Aug 6, 2019

Impkins Patootie posted:

does this book touch upon the CIA's connection to Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple? is there a better book for that??

no I don’t remember seeing anything like that in the book

Impkins Patootie
Apr 20, 2017





ok cool thanks

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN
This is an article from 1999 that describes the long running tradition in the LA Sheriff's department of maintaining fraternity like secret societies that often had very fascy or racist symbols. It's worth noting that this article concerns the LA sheriff and not the LA Police Department. The Tate-LaBianca murders involved personnel from both the LAPD and the Sheriff's office, and also none of the groups described here are traced back that far, but I still found this article to be an interesting little behind the scenes glimpse into what late 20th century policing in Los Angeles and its surrounding environs looked like.

The LA Times posted:

The Secret Society Among Lawmen

By ANNE-MARIE O’CONNOR AND TINA DAUNT

MARCH 24, 1999 12 AM

TIMES STAFF WRITERS

He is still proud of his tattoo.

The somber image of Death’s hooded skull and scythe tattooed onto the inside of the deputy’s left ankle in 1989 initiated him into a select fraternity called the Grim Reapers. Then a street cop at the Lennox station, this deputy has risen to a key position in the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department--along with other members of his “club.”

The groups--with macho monikers like the Pirates, Vikings, Rattlesnakes and Cavemen--have long been a subculture in the country’s largest Sheriff’s Department and, in some cases, an inside track to acceptance in the ranks. Senior officers say they began with the creation of the Little Devils at the East Los Angeles station in 1971. Membership swelled in the 1980s at overwhelmingly white sheriff’s stations that were islands in black and Latino immigrant communities.

A federal judge hearing class-action litigation against the department described the most well-known of the groups, the Lynwood Vikings, as a “neo-Nazi, white supremacist gang” and found that deputies had engaged in racially motivated hostility. The county paid $9 million in fines and training costs to settle the lawsuits in 1996.

But today, groups like the Grim Reapers are enjoying renewed popularity among young deputies, who say the groups are fraternities that bond on morale-building values, not race. A new group--the Regulators--has formed at Century station, and even suburban deputies are thinking about getting tattoos. Some senior officers say the groups provide emotional support for deputies who contend with a grueling regimen of violent crime and an 11-to-7 overnight schedule that strains family life.

The groups have their detractors. One deputy characterized the Lennox Reapers as “cowboys,” and another complained that the Regulators were “acting just like Vikings.”

Sheriff Lee Baca has long been a critic of the groups, though he believes an outright ban would be unconstitutional. He urges deputies to stay away from the organizations, saying they encourage unprofessional behavior.

Critics of the department go even further. They charge that the stations with the department’s most troubled records--meaning the most frequent excessive-force lawsuits and discrimination complaints--are home to the most active deputy groups.

And the groups are viewed with mistrust by many in the inner-city communities.

“They are generally perceived as rogue cops who have often been accused of acting in very inappropriate ways in the street,” said Joe Hicks, executive director of the city’s human relations commission. “It doesn’t seem to be good for morale or community relations.”

Uncovering Evidence

Some of the lawyers now suing the Sheriff’s Department on behalf of clients who say they were beaten, shot or harassed have demanded that deputies accused of misconduct roll down their socks and reveal if they have one of the distinguishing tattoos. In one case pending in federal court, attorneys want two deputies who allegedly shot a man to death to show whether their ankles bear the Vikings insignia.

Kevin Reed, an attorney with the National Assn. for the Advancement of Colored People’s Legal Defense Fund, who worked on the class-action suit involving the Vikings, thinks the deputy groups encourage a pattern of excessive force.

“There is a bond, not just of being a fellow deputy, but being a Viking, that gives you the comfort that no one is going to write the report that will hang you out to dry,” Reed said.

One Viking tattoo displayed in court bore the number “998"--the code for “officer-involved shooting"--Reed said, giving the impression that such shootings were celebrated as a rite of passage.

Former Undersheriff Jerry Harper, who was Baca’s boss until he retired after the November sheriff’s race, said the 998 tattoos reflect a camaraderie not unlike that of soldiers who have experienced combat for the first time.

“It’s a mark of pride. They’ve been in a deputy-involved shooting and they’ve survived it,” he said. “Obviously, it’s a lot more serious than getting a Boy Scout patch.”

But David Lynn, a private investigator who testified on the deputy groups to the U.S. Civil Rights Commission--which is to address the issue in a report due in April--has called for the names of tattooed deputies to be cross-referenced with excessive force allegations.

For all his objections, Baca believes such a registry might actually absolve the groups of the most serious suspicions. He thinks many deputies acquired the tattoos for reasons no deeper than peer pressure and heavy drinking.

“Many of them regretted it the day after, when they got a little sober,” said Baca, “especially when their wife saw the thing and was very upset.” He said the deputies were “caring, hard-working, not prejudiced. And they literally destroyed their lives, many of them, with this nonsense of the drinking and the tattoos. . . .

“I cannot dismiss it as a little club or as a social group,” Baca said. “I see it as the wrong message to a public that desperately wants to be close to us, desperately wants to trust us. Having a Grim Reaper tattoo does not bring confidence in you as a deputy.”

By Invitation Only

Although their total numbers are not known, the tattooed officers are found throughout department ranks. Many have risen to positions of leadership. Group members are said to be predominantly white and male, though Latino members are reportedly common. There are few black or female initiates, group members say.

“It’s no more than some of the fraternities at different schools,” said the deputy who became a Grim Reaper at Lennox.

The deputy, who is white, was honored the day he was asked to become a Reaper. His buddies drove him to a tattoo parlor and gave the artist the secret stencil with the Reaper icon. The tattoo was numbered and his name entered into a ledger kept by a veteran officer.

To him, the tattoo “showed that you were respected by your peers.” The symbols are not meant to be sinister, but the more forceful logos--like a bolt of lightning--have higher status, he said.

“What am I going to get--a tattoo of Winnie the Pooh?” the deputy asked.

Even Baca acknowledges the appeal of the groups.

He recalls confronting the issue of Viking membership two years ago when he was a regional department chief. He was meeting with deputies at the new Century station, which replaced Lynwood. His superiors warned him to be cautious, Baca said.

“I think there was more of an interest of protecting me from what they perceived to be a backlash,” Baca said. “Since I was the only one out there voicing an objection to it, they didn’t want me so far out on a limb that my overall effectiveness as a chief might be mitigated.

“Well, now I’m the sheriff, so I’m not worried about mitigation,” Baca said. “Don’t like it. Never have. Never will.”

Today, some officers have told Baca they’re thinking about getting their tattoos removed.

One of them, Lt. Paul Tanaka, was made a top aide to the sheriff just after the election in August. Tanaka was tattooed as a member of the Vikings while a young deputy in 1987--a year before he was named in a wrongful-death suit stemming from the shooting of a young Korean man. The department eventually settled for close to $1 million.

Now Tanaka, a recently elected Gardena city councilman with aspirations to rise in the department and local politics, would like to disassociate himself from the group.

“Paul doesn’t have anything to say about [the tattoo],” said Sheriff’s Department spokesman Capt. Doyle Campbell. “It is perceived by some in a way that was never intended. He’s having it removed. He wants it behind him.”

It was 1990 police misconduct litigation that first hurled the deputy clubs--and the Vikings--into the public eye.

The lawsuit, which asked the federal court to take over the Lynwood station, produced numerous accounts of “Animal House"-style thuggery. There were the deputies who shot a dog and tied it under their commanders’ car; the deputies who smeared feces on a supervisor’s engine. There was the map of Lynwood in the shape of Africa, the racist cartoons of black men, the mock “ticket to Africa” on the wall.

U.S. District Judge Terry Hatter concluded that many deputies engaged in racially motivated hostility against blacks and Latinos. In 1996, the department was ordered to pay $7.5 million to 80 alleged victims of excessive force in the area policed by the Lynwood station, and spend $1.5 million for mandatory training.

Then-Sheriff Sherman Block said Hatter’s characterization of the Vikings as a “neo-Nazi” group was “irrational and wrong.” He said the Vikings were primarily a social organization, and he found no proof they ever acted against minorities. Block said then he believed the group no longer existed.

The 1992 Kolts Commission report on police brutality in Los Angeles said deputy “cliques” like the Vikings were found “particularly at stations in areas heavily populated by minorities--the so-called ‘ghetto stations'--and deputies at those stations recruit persons similar in attitude to themselves.”

The report said evidence “does not conclusively demonstrate the existence of racist deputy gangs.” Nevertheless, it went on to say, “it appears that some deputies at the department’s Lynwood station associate with the ‘Viking’ symbol, and appear at least in times past to have engaged in behavior that is brutal and intolerable and is typically associated with street gangs.”

There never has been a follow-up report or investigation by an independent entity since.

Within the department, Baca said, he was sufficiently concerned about the Vikings to send in a no-nonsense Latino commander to run the Lynwood station in 1989.

He said he sent in Capt. Bert Cueva “to specifically stamp out this Viking phenomenon.”

Cueva “looked like Clint Eastwood, and you didn’t mess with him,” Baca said. “He was the right guy to go in and say, ‘OK, folks, all this Viking crap is over with.’ ”

A Viking Funeral

But when Cueva ordered the transfer of reputed Vikings out of the station, four sued him for discrimination. The suit was eventually dismissed, and in 1992, Cueva retired from the force.

The Vikings continued to operate. In May 1995, Deputy Stephen Blair was shot and killed in the line of duty. His buddies passed out lapel pins bearing the Viking symbol so deputies could wear them at his funeral, said Deputy Mike Osborne, who became a trainee at the Lynwood station in 1994.

To Osborne, the Vikings mirrored the race and gender caste system at a station where deputies had to win acceptance from white male veterans, many of whom routinely used racist and sexist slurs.

Being invited to become a Viking was considered a tremendous compliment, Osborne said. “If you’re hard-charging, one of the boys, you’ll be asked. If you’ve paid your dues and you’re not an idiot.”

Becoming “one of the boys” implied more than simple fellowship, Osborne said.

“You keep your mouth shut and obey the code of silence. Any illegal acts you witness by other deputies, you don’t say anything. If you’re asked, you say, ‘I didn’t see nothing,’ ” said Osborne.

Osborne and his wife, fellow Deputy Aurora Mellado, retired in 1996 after Mellado broke that code by accusing her training officer of fabricating or destroying evidence to harass blacks and Latinos. The officer, Jeffrey Jones, pleaded no contest to felony charges of falsifying police reports that August.

The month Jones was arraigned--March 1996--someone shot at the Osbornes’ home just before midnight, as their children slept in the rear bedrooms, he said. Osborne said he suspects renegade sheriff’s deputies were involved.

John Hillen, a retired Army captain at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said the intensity of military life, which parallels the law enforcement experience, fosters subcultures of unit identity.

“A lot of these subgroups can be as harmful as helpful,” he said. For example, Ret. Col. Dan Smith, an analyst at the Center for Defense Information, said “underground groups” that arise within military ranks often have white supremacist leanings.

Reports of such a culture in the Sheriff’s Department have led attorneys pursuing misconduct complaints to try, with little success, to make membership in deputy groups admissible in court.

“It goes to motive, it goes to credibility, it implies a treatment of people of color,” said civil rights attorney Hugh Manes. “Gang membership has long been accepted in courts in the context of criminal law. If it has relevance for the criminal courts, it certainly has relevance for the Sheriff’s Department.”

That kind of talk outrages tattooed deputies, who say the misdeeds associated with the Vikings gave everyone else a bad name.

One such deputy called the tattoos a “harmless expression of camaraderie. It’s like a Marine Corps tattoo.” The day he got tattooed, three of his buddies picked him up and took him to a tattoo parlor, he thinks in East L.A. The artist already knew the tattoo by heart.

Would he get one again? “No. Just because of the negative connotations,” said the deputy, who is white. “I want to move forward in this career.”

And while he knows “many people” in the higher ranks of the department who have tattoos, he doesn’t know anyone who did not think it would hurt them in court.

“If we had a tattoo with a doughnut dipped into a cup of coffee, they’d criticize us for that,” he said. “If they want to see my leg, they’re going to have to get a warrant.”

A white department veteran in a position of authority claims he got the first Viking tattoo back in 1980, when there were very few women or blacks in the department. He and a buddy were talking one day and decided they wanted a tattoo for their station. One day, he was at a tattoo parlor in Long Beach when he spotted the helmeted Nordic marauder on the wall. He got one, and when he showed his buddies, they got them too. He said it wasn’t racially motivated--he recalls a black man and some Latinos being tattooed--but looking back, he thinks “maybe Vikings weren’t a good choice.”

Baca wishes deputies would just stop joining the tattoo subculture. California Highway Patrolmen get killed in the line of duty more often than sheriff’s deputies, he says, and they don’t get tattoos. When Marines get tattoos, they use official emblems, he said.

“You ought to be proud to be a member of the Sheriff’s Department,” Baca said. “Tattoo your badge on your ankle, if that’s what you want to do.”

*

Times researcher William Holmes contributed to this story.

gh0stpinballa
Mar 5, 2019

Pryor on Fire posted:

why would you do that when you can just put pallets of bricks all over the place and then get a massive increase in your budget to deal with rioters. Killing people is so 1960s.

true but since my op and your post there have been several lets say bizarre incidents

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Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN
Saw this posted over in the Epstein thread. Maybe now that the dust is settling over the website drama I'll push myself to try and make this thread active again.

quote:

Pont-Saint-Esprit poisoning: Did the CIA spread LSD?

By Mike Thomson

BBC News

23 August 2010

Nearly 60 years ago, a French town was hit by a sudden outbreak of hallucinations, which left five people dead and many seriously ill. For years it was blamed on bread contaminated with a psychedelic fungus - but that theory is now being challenged.

On 16 August 1951, postman Leon Armunier was doing his rounds in the southern French town of Pont-Saint-Esprit when he was suddenly overwhelmed by nausea and wild hallucinations.

"It was terrible. I had the sensation of shrinking and shrinking, and the fire and the serpents coiling around my arms," he remembers.

Leon, now 87, fell off his bike and was taken to the hospital in Avignon.

He was put in a straitjacket but he shared a room with three teenagers who had been chained to their beds to keep them under control.

"Some of my friends tried to get out of the window. They were thrashing wildly... screaming, and the sound of the metal beds and the jumping up and down... the noise was terrible.

"I'd prefer to die rather than go through that again."

Over the coming days, dozens of other people in the town fell prey to similar symptoms.

Doctors at the time concluded that bread at one of the town's bakeries had become contaminated by ergot, a poisonous fungus that occurs naturally on rye.

Biological warfare

That view remained largely unchallenged until 2009, when an American investigative journalist, Hank Albarelli, revealed a CIA document labelled: "Re: Pont-Saint-Esprit and F.Olson Files. SO Span/France Operation file, inclusive Olson. Intel files. Hand carry to Belin - tell him to see to it that these are buried."

F. Olson is Frank Olson, a CIA scientist who, at the time of the Pont St Esprit incident, led research for the agency into the drug LSD.

David Belin, meanwhile, was executive director of the Rockefeller Commission created by the White House in 1975 to investigate abuses carried out worldwide by the CIA.

Albarelli believes the Pont-Saint-Esprit and F. Olson Files, mentioned in the document, would show - if they had not been "buried" - that the CIA was experimenting on the townspeople, by dosing them with LSD.

The conclusion drawn at the time was that one of the town's bakeries, the Roch Briand, was the source of the poisoning. It's possible, Albarelli says, that LSD was put in the bread.

It is well known that biological warfare scientists around the world, including some in Britain, were experimenting with LSD in the early 1950s - a time of conflict in Korea and an escalation of Cold War tensions.

Albarelli says he has found a top secret report issued in 1949 by the research director of the Edgewood Arsenal, where many US government LSD experiments were carried out, which states that the army should do everything possible to launch "field experiments" using the drug.

Using Freedom of Information legislation, he also got hold of another CIA report from 1954.

In it an agent reported his conversation with a representative of the Sandoz Chemical company in Switzerland.

Sandoz's base, which is just a few hundred kilometres from Pont-Saint-Esprit, was the only place where LSD was being produced at that time.

The agent reports that after several drinks, the Sandoz representative abruptly stated: "The Pont-Saint-Esprit 'secret' is that it was not the bread at all... It was not grain ergot."

'Wrong symptoms'
But American academic Professor Steven Kaplan, who published a book in 2008 on the Pont-Saint-Esprit incident, insists that neither ergot nor LSD could have been responsible.

Ergot contamination would not, he says, have affected only one sack of grain in one bakery, as was claimed here. The outbreak would have been far more widespread.

He rules out LSD on the grounds that the symptoms people suffered, though similar, do not quite fit the drug.

He also points out that it would have not have survived the fierce temperatures of the baker's oven - though Albarelli counters that it could have been added to the bread after baking.

While they disagree on the cause of the hallucinations, on one point they are united - the need for a French government inquiry to get to the bottom of what really happened in Pont-Saint-Esprit all those years ago.

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