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Gatts posted:There may be something else to consider with the Youth Vote. If you register but in some states do not do it as a Democrat or Republican, you cannot vote in Primaries. Could this have also happened? Texas has open primaries and the turnout among younger voters was abysmal. Nobody's voice is being ignored, they're simply choosing not to speak up.
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Mar 5, 2020 18:34
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TyrantWD posted:Eh, I'm not so sure. There are tons of these suburban households with six-figure incomes, who have excellent insurance, their kids go to great schools, and who may hate Trump, but are not willing to take a hit to their finances to get rid of him. So while Biden will lose the support of some who only vote for Sanders, the reverse is also true. That is why turnout among younger generations matters. Or anyone who works in the health insurance industry, energy industry or any other industry that is sensitive to economic shocks. Being laid off and defaulting on your mortgage isn't a good prospect.
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Mar 5, 2020 18:42
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Eminai posted:They’re “choosing” not to wait in line for 6 1/2 hours to cast a ballot. I "chose" to vote a week before Super Tuesday for precisely that reason!
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Mar 5, 2020 18:44
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VH4Ever posted:Do your research. The governor slashed how long early voting lasts and cut down bigly on the number of early voting sites. You're making a qualitative argument when the quantitative is more relevant. If people have less options to early vote and less time to do it, it compounds on the whole "long lines on voting day" thing. We had *10 days* of early voting in Texas and the norm during early voting is that you can vote at *any* early voting site in your county.
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Mar 5, 2020 18:56
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SKULL.GIF posted:Why is this on McConnell's desk and not signed and passed in 2009 on Reid's desk? The crystal ball that would've predicted Citizens United in 2010 and Shelby County v. Holder in 2013 was in the shop.
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Mar 5, 2020 19:36
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The political blowback from even a compromised student loan forgiveness plan would make the Trump years look tame in comparison.
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Mar 5, 2020 23:06
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Majorian posted:Over half of all Texan Democratic voters view socialism as A Good Thing. Not just socialist or social democratic policies, or Bernie in particular - socialism. It's barely underwater among Tennessean Democrats. And a great chunk of that half walked into a voting booth and pulled the lever for Biden or Bloomberg. When the average American thinks of socialism, they think of universal healthcare and higher education, not ending capitalism.
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Mar 5, 2020 23:39
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Elephant Ambush posted:"Better things aren't possible" People who are fine with reducing or forgiving student debt in cases of serious hardship are not necessarily fine with forgiving a neurosurgeon's student debt.
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Mar 5, 2020 23:57
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Presenting Nipples posted:44 million, mostly young, Americans have student loan debt. A president absolving that debt would win a lot loyalty for decades. And even more Americans either did not attend college, minimized or avoided taking on student debt, paid off their student debt or are not interested in relief from their student debt. That's a lot of potential lifelong Republican voters.
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Mar 6, 2020 00:04
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Majorian posted:They aren't going to become lifelong Republican voters because other young people got their debts forgiven. That's absurd. Anyone who went to a state university will remember their classmates who covered all of their tuition by borrowing the maximum amount and spent the refund check on a mall haul. Many of those will inevitably resent the idea of public money being used to bail those people out, only for them to inevitably load up another stack of credit cards.
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Mar 6, 2020 00:19
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Majorian posted:There's a whole lot of ground between this, which is true, and the bizarre assertion that forgiving student debt is going to be the thing that single-handedly does it for a significant number of people. Those that become lifelong Republicans because of it weren't going to vote Dem anyway. What's your reasoning behind saying that they "weren't going to vote Dem anyway?" We're not talking about medical debt that you often have no choice in taking on. People with six figures of student debt from a private four-year residential university and people with $25,000 in debt from a public four-year in-state university made very different choices.
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Mar 6, 2020 00:30
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Taffer posted:Also stop trying to hide behind "other people won't like this thing" and just admit that you're talking about your own selfish, spiteful rear end. You got me there! Neither those who support nor oppose student debt forgiveness want to pay the supporters’ student loans.
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Mar 6, 2020 01:18
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Bushido Brown posted:Good thing "taxpayer dollars" are a myth and nobody is paying for the debt forgiveness either way, then! When you wipe $1.5 trillion from the national A/R, someone is paying for that.
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Mar 6, 2020 01:23
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skylined! posted:Ya, like, Navient goes belly up. It’s a rounding error in comparison to the full cost of Bernie’s proposals, yes, but it’s not insignificant.
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Mar 6, 2020 01:29
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Herewaard posted:Federal governments that issue their own currency don’t have to pay for things the way you and I do. The federal government can literally just cancel out debts that are owed to it and create currency when needed to meet spending obligations. Not according to actual economists. http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/modern-monetary-theory
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Mar 6, 2020 01:31
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Herewaard posted:lol chicago school Now where does that leave the remainder of the massive cost of Bernie’s plans?
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Mar 6, 2020 01:37
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Bushido Brown posted:Sorry that you don't like to see some fake amounts of "income" never make it to your checking account, but your mindset is busted from both a theoretical and a practical perspective. One not so small problem with MMT is that it essentially requires the end of an independent central bank that sets monetary policy. This doesn’t just cause our Treasuries to be downgraded on the market, it causes the price of the dollar to fall and prices of imports to consequently skyrocket.
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Mar 6, 2020 01:53
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Taffer posted:He has extremely detailed plans that cover all of this. You should go read them. And every time his plans are analyzed by nonpartisan think tanks, it’s clear that his proposals do not create enough revenue to cover the massive increase in spending.
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Mar 6, 2020 01:54
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GreyjoyBastard posted:there is a certain amount of disagreement between Chicago and not-Chicago economists, bub The IGM poll respondents are mainstream New Keynesians, not Friedmanites.
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Mar 6, 2020 02:14
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Cpt_Obvious posted:So did Japan. Which invented quantitative easing. Quantitative easing essentially boils down to "dump money into the economy to prevent a deflationary spiral (because we've exhausted traditional monetary policy tools)" and that works great when you are actually staring down two deflationary barrels.
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Mar 6, 2020 02:50
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joepinetree posted:MMT is Keynesianism. More specifically, a school of thought called Post-Keynesianism, which is a more faithful version of Keynes than the neoclassical bastardization of Keynes, New Keynesianism. Economics, like any of the other social sciences, has actually developed quite a bit since the 1920s.
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Mar 6, 2020 02:51
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Yeah voting Biden will make sure that all those women don't lose their jobs when the markets crash after a Sanders victory, making all of their situations worse
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Mar 6, 2020 04:08
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Kunabomber posted:The market was going to crash with any democrat becoming president. They're pumping the gently caress out of the markets to keep it afloat. The only difference between Biden and Sanders is how much of a social safety net is there going to be to save those people that are going to lose the jobs. Yeah no the markets are going to definitely react very differently to the election of a "business-as-usual" Democrat vs. a "well see it's democratic socialism" outsider with a long history of hostility to business
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Mar 6, 2020 04:24
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Herewaard posted:this is one hell of a take. We hold your livelihood hostage so you better not ask for nice things like medicare for all. This is why Bernie and a lot of us hate the system and want to destroy it Investor confidence would plummet in response to his overall hostility towards business, not because he ran on "Medicare for All"
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Mar 6, 2020 04:29
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Nonsense posted:Where they gonna put their money bro? England? lmao There are plenty of foreign markets to invest in. Capital flight is in fact a real thing.
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Mar 6, 2020 04:34
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it isn't about an excuse, it's about not wanting to even be associated with those people by supporting the same candidate if those people tended to share my preferences for pizza toppings i'd reconsider that too because they're that disgusting
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Mar 6, 2020 19:24
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Majorian posted:But we're not talking about pizza toppings. We're not talking about people asking for a pony. We're talking about poor people dying from lack of health care. And you think that people posting snake emojis is more important than that. I care about those things too, my preferred solutions to those things just don't involve running wrecking balls through our institutions (i.e. packing the Supreme Court) in their pursuit
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Mar 6, 2020 19:29
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Phi230 posted:What exactly makes the supreme court, or any of our dysfunctional and reactionary institutions, deserving of saving Gorsuch and Kavanaugh sit on the Supreme Court precisely because a bunch of people sat out the 2016 election "on principle", so blame them
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Mar 6, 2020 19:34
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Cpt_Obvious posted:FDR did it, to great success. I do not agree that court packing is in any way destructive to our democracy. In fact, the Supreme Court is an inherently undemocratic institution. Neither you nor I voted for a single member on that court. Yes, we voted for the people responsible for those nominations, but they have repeatedly gone against public opinion and common sense. No just court on earth could have ruled in favor of citizens united, and yet there it happened. Under a democratic establishment, none the less. FDR's court packing plan was rejected by his own party. They never went through with it. If you think we should elect our judges, just look at elected judiciaries where they do exist and you probably won't like the result. Cpt_Obvious posted:If not court packing, What is your solution to this dilemma? Winning elections, for one.
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Mar 6, 2020 19:41
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Majorian posted:Well, the strategy you seem to be advocating has a pretty poor track record on that, particularly as far as the presidency is concerned, so... Bernie can't even win primaries yet you expect him to win the Presidency and the majorities in both chambers of Congress that he would need for any of his policies to have a chance of seeing the light of day.
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Mar 6, 2020 19:46
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Toaster Beef posted:"Packing the Supreme Court was super effective when FDR did it, and if we can't do that again then we should at least consider making Supreme Court Justice an elected position" is a set of statements with the density of a dying star "If we can't pack the Supreme Court (something which requires a trifecta) we'll just rewrite Article III of the Constitution"
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Mar 6, 2020 19:54
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Disnesquick posted:You do realize that Trump is going to absolutely destroy Biden right? The man is an incoherent wreck with a dreadful record who has already totally alienated Latinx and Asian voters. Trump and his compliant media will pick him apart in seconds. CNN giving him the cotton wool treatment won't matter for toffee. Every "Independent" I know thinks that Biden and Bernie are both communists so good luck with that mythical swing voter as well. If Biden doesn't stand a chance, Bernie doesn't either. It's really that simple. The infrequent voters in battleground states are more likely to vote Republican when they do vote and Bernie already starts with a huge disadvantage in a lot of those states because he alienates Jewish and Cuban voters (important in Florida) and even alienating less than 15% of moderate or conservative Democrats is enough to doom him.
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Mar 6, 2020 20:02
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19 o'clock posted:I love this one. How did humans ever survive in the world before the investor class came along to make things better for everyone? Anyone with so much as a savings account is part of the "investor class"
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Mar 6, 2020 20:06
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Scooter_McCabe posted:Also Joe and Hilary don't throw kids in cages, call Nazi's good people, down play a pandemic, threaten to start wars with Iran, call upon foreign powers to interfere in elections, praise dictators and so on. Also I think we have stop with this "lesser evil" bullshit. Just because you don't agree with a candidate some things doesn't make them flat out evil. Refusing to vote or voting for the actually evil candidate because "accelerationism is the answer" is evil. Also Joe isn't Hilary so there is that. Come what may I'm voting for anyone but Trump that the Democrats pick, this isn't time for write ins or sitting out. "But they're literally the same except for a few minor things like judicial nominees (but Ginsburg and Scalia were FRIENDS!) and things like not actively trying to strip millions of their health insurance!"
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Mar 6, 2020 20:10
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SKULL.GIF posted:A President can accomplish a tremendous amount without needing the help of Congress whatsoever. Cabinet appointments have a great deal of power, along with the executive orders that have already been mentioned. All of those things can be reversed by the next administration, and the trend has been that the next administration is from the opposing party.
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Mar 6, 2020 20:10
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GlyphGryph posted:Isn't this you admitting its just an excuse and you actually disagree with him on policy after all? What's this "mask off" catchphrase? I never pretended to support Sanders.
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Mar 6, 2020 20:13
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Groovelord Neato posted:Biden got 100 million bucks of positive coverage for free leading up to Super Tuesday. What's voter agency anyway?
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Mar 6, 2020 20:54
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Cerebral Bore posted:In other words you're saying that Donald Trump won the 2016 election fair and square because people voted for him? Yes, actually.
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Mar 6, 2020 20:57
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Disnesquick posted:Why spend that much money if it has no effect? Why isn't Mike Bloomberg the presumptive nominee?
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Mar 6, 2020 20:58
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Eminai posted:Cut a Biden voter, and a Trump voter bleeds. No, recognizing that Trump won an election doesn't make you a Trump voter.
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Mar 6, 2020 20:59
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